Orgasm. The meaning of life itself?

Slightly off topic, but maybe we continue to live and stay paired, even after our children are raised, because, as humans, we are designed for more than to just consume and multiply? Maybe there is something unique about us, something that makes us quite special compared to other animals? ...

 

conversely, it is the loop-hole in this theory that causes me to 'soul search' as you put it.

your theory suggests, quite solidly and comprehensively, that the nature of procreation and preservation of the female form is the reason for a human being's existence. i totally get why you say this.

but i'm gay. um.

it's my natural inclination to seek sexual gratification exclusively from dudes, and not women, thereby rendering your theory of nature promoting procreation naturally impossible for me, personally. in my experience, the 'meaning of life' physically can't be based on the points you discuss.

the thing about being human is, apart from natural obligations (like eating/drinking, as you discuss), we have the ability to make any decision we please, and this is an ability gifted to us, not unlike the ability to achieve an orgasm, by nature. it's my personal belief that this concept of free will, and our ability seek our own, ultimate happiness, that holds the key to the meaning of life, regardless of its impact on the progression of humankind's existence.

don't get me wrong, i obviously don't want to inadvertedly extinguish mankind in favour of having a good time, but my personal nature dictates that i can't do anything to continue it either. i figure that straight people kind of have that covered.

does that make sense? i dunno.

 

I agree. I would say that consume and multiply are very much of the R complex (reptilian) part of our brain, the very 'basic' part that just wants to mark its territory, eat, control, and f**k (yang!),a bit like a politician!! :-D But there is another side (yin!!)and after MANY years of being subjugated the balance is finally being restored.

 

Maybe there are no 'obligations', or 'rules', only perceptions(?), and possibly 'duty' is just a concept (deception) invented by the 'politicians' to ensure the masses blindly obey their self serving agendas which is filtered down via the media, education, 'entertainment', brainwashing computer(war)games etc, and in a Universe that is vast beyond comprehension (and virtually unknown) it might not be imperative that the human race continue and it might even be arrogant to assume so. That is not a cold assertion or one that is in any way in-human and this is only an observation based on the position and scale my current being occupies within this vast cosmos. Many people (particularly in the East) believe we are here to break the cycle of reincarnation and they find it puzzling that in the west we celebrate birth and commiserate death when they believe it would be more appropriate if it was the other way around. I'm not saying they are right and I'm not saying they are wrong. Different strokes for different folks etc. All I'm saying is that maybe the Universe doesn't revolve around the survival needs of human beings and therefore there are no real 'rules' and 'obligations' as such...?

 

i'll start by saying i like you; you seem intelligent. i have respect for your ability to communicate your points in an articulate, rational way. also, don't worry, i did not take your post as an attack at all- although you initially didn't address homosexuality, i didn't assume you found it in any way unnatural.

secondly, i'd suggest that any action beyond conception/birth, which helps guide the new generation, moves away from multiplication and becomes more about a separate, bulit-in instinct; nurturing. maybe you mean to regard this idea through 'multiplication' as a broader concept than procreation, but i'm merely reinforcing that there's obviously more to the meaning of life than eating, screwing and dying. i know you recognise this, since you implied it above.

thank you for taking the time to consider my post.

 

also this is a brilliant post.

 

Yes, I remember Woody Allen once saying something like, "why is everyone wondering about the universe when its hard enough trying to find your way round Chinatown! " (or something like that)

I like to think life is not a problem to be solved, its a mystery to be lived and I also remember a great lyric by Matt Johnson of The The in a great song called 'slow emotion replay', 'everybody knows what's going on in the world, I don't even know what's going on in myself'. Or is there a balance to be achieved. I don't know? I can't help thinking though there's been an over emphasis on seeking gratification etc in ego identification with external forms etc in the hope that they will somehow 'extend' us as growth, expansion, more, more, more, me, me, me etc are the hallmarks of ego (and being out of balance) and this certainly would explain lot of the problems our world faces right now? Perhaps we need to start simply being more, stop striving, let go, accept, trust, love more, be more in the present moment and stop seeking outside of our true selves which is an insatiable search from what I've seen/experienced? Be the change you want to see in the world as Ghandi put it as I do think we are both significant AND significant- the Buddhist believe that when a butterfly flaps its wings its effects are felt throughout the entire Universe - a Universe that appears both infinitely large AND infinitely small in we each occupy a unique point of observation determined by the position and scale we occupy? Perhaps there is a Universal ocean of consciousness of which we are all a significant part? I like to think that a drop of water only becomes a drop when it has seperated itself from the whole (and it is this act of seperation which appears to be the function of the ego?) and that when we cease to be a drop we become the ocean itself?

Is it only the mind/ego that ponders the 'meaning'? Perhaps we are meant to transcend mind/thoughts and merge with the pure ocean of consciousness which is our true, natural state? Maybe?

 

Well, you know what they say- men are from bars and women have no penis!! ;-)

 

don't worry about it, i really wasn't offended at all. i understand what you were getting at from the get-go, and you have some refreshing outlooks on self-discipline and the bettering of our race as a unit. you've nothing to be sorry about as far as this guy's concerned.

and thanks for the words of encouragement! i wish you the same.

 

Are animals special? Sure, of course. But am I, you, any other human more valuable than a dolphin? Yes, totally. Fortunately, there is pretty much almost never a situation where I would have to kill a dolphin in order to survive. But let's say hypothetically, there was a situation where only a human or a dolphin could live, and I for some reason had to make the choice: I would choose the human being. To not do so would seem to violate your Rule #2 -- the continued multiplication of the human race. (Which you broadened to go beyond one's own progeny in your response to dungeon, when you expanded "multiplication" to include the nurturing of others who are not necessarily related to you genetically.)

As you said, humans are more intelligent than other animals (though some animals are quite intelligent, indeed, including dolphins), but, as far as we know, dolphins neither send dolphins to the moon, nor do they sit around and contemplate the meaning of life, as futile as you may feel that activity is right now.

Do humans do stupid things, like the wars and all that you talked about? (Wars, though, are usually either directly or indirectly fought to protect one nation's ability to continue to "obey" rules #1 and #2, I might add) The very reason why wars are considered tragic, and why its thought to be wrong that so many people, totally unrelated to us, go hungry when they don't have to, again, the reason why we see all of that as unjust and wrong and sad is bec, well, we are different than the animals, and we carry not only a special ability for self-reflection, but also an intrinsic worth. We don't get upset when lions kill antelope for food, as bloody as that process may be. But when humans kill other humans over food, we see that as tragic. Why? Because, ultimately, humans are "worth" more than antelope.

Your later comment, "I sincerely hope for all of humanity's sake that you participate in the creation of a better world - if not for yourself, than for others."

The fact that you desire, let alone envision, some type of "better world" -- something that is quantifiable and carries some sort of moral weight, to me, to my understanding, seems to violate your strictly materialistic view (philosophical sense of the word) of the universe. Morality is illogical if there is no God, no transcendent worth or plumb line of virtue.

 

I think it is amoral to consider that consumption and reproduction are the highest goods of life. Seeing these things are only primal cures this dilemma (sorry if I misunderstand you). Sex is primal and is one of the lowest forms of good even in its purest (fully rebooted) sense.

There are other goods beside reproduction. Meditation and wonderment at the universe for example. The infinite complexity of our world and what may be beyond it. How absolutely pathetic and obscure we are in relation to the universe.

As to the god question, I always thought this to be strange. I personally went through an atheist to "agnostic" transformation during my reboot when I was religious before. "Transcendent worth", "purpose", "meaning", these are all illusions. Particularly human purpose. It is illusory to believe we are not walking on a razor's edge and a great cataclysm can erase everything humans have worked for in the blink of an eye.

The idea of heaven is materialistic as it appears to me. Upon death, why would we go to a world that looks constructed by humans? Pearly gates, golden architecture, high in the clouds, this seems like a human fantasy, not divine awesomeness. It sounds material.

If there is a god, then it is likely genderless and far beyond definition or comprehension. This is why I see sex as a lower form of good; it is not the meaning of life to pair-bond necessarily, rather to extend love and compassion without expectation of reward.

Perhaps the meaning of life is "nothing". But we as humans can't define nothing because we haven't died yet.

 

Kosh32 – I don’t know what religion you were connected to before, since you said you were religious before, but as a Christian myself, it’s amazing to me how Judeo-Christian your comments here are. Different parallel verses in the Christian Bible kept popping out to me in my mind as I read your post. I don’t think your current worldview is that contrary to Judeo-Christian thinking and you may perceive it to be.

If I may share these with you:

K32: “I think it is amoral to consider that consumption and reproduction are the highest goods of life. Seeing these things are only primal cures this dilemma (sorry if I misunderstand you). Sex is primal and is one of the lowest forms of good even in its purest (fully rebooted) sense.”

* Bible – well, the basic “goods” of life aren’t always that complex; Ecclesiastes 2:24: “There is nothing better for a person than that he should eat and drink and find enjoyment in his toil. This also, I saw, is from the hand of God.” Ecc. 8:15: “So I commended enjoyment, because a man has nothing better under the sun than to eat, drink, and be merry; for this will remain with him in his labor all the days of his life which God gives him under the sun.” Proverbs 5:18,19: “May your fountain be blessed, and may you rejoice in the wife of your youth. A loving doe, a graceful deer—may her breasts satisfy you always, may you ever be intoxicated with her love.“

K32: “There are other goods beside reproduction. Meditation and wonderment at the universe for example. The infinite complexity of our world and what may be beyond it. How absolutely pathetic and obscure we are in relation to the universe.”

* Bible – Psalm 8:3-6 “When I consider your heavens, the work of your fingers,
the moon and the stars, which you have set in place,
what is mankind that you are mindful of them,
human beings that you care for them?” And yet, vs. 5-6: “You have made them a little lower than the angels and crowned them with glory and honor. You made them rulers over the works of your hands;
you put everything under their feet.” Do we not have the ability/responsibility to care for the world in a way that no other creature on our planet can/ought?

K32: “"Transcendent worth", "purpose", "meaning", these are all illusions. Particularly human purpose. “

* Bible – it often feels this way, doesn’t it? Ecclesiastes 1:1-11 “The words of the Teacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem: “Futile! Futile!” laments the Teacher,
“Absolutely futile! Everything is futile!”
What benefit do people get from all the effort
which they expend on earth?
A generation comes and a generation goes,
but the earth remains the same through the ages.
The sun rises and the sun sets;
it hurries away to a place from which it rises again.
The wind goes to the south and circles around to the north;
round and round the wind goes and on its rounds it returns.
All the streams flow into the sea, but the sea is not full,
and to the place where the streams flow, there they will flow again.
All this monotony is tiresome; no one can bear to describe it:
The eye is never satisfied with seeing, nor is the ear ever content with hearing.
What exists now is what will be,
and what has been done is what will be done;
there is nothing truly new on earth. Is there anything about which someone can say, “Look at this! It is new!”?
It was already done long ago, before our time. No one remembers the former events,
nor will anyone remember the events that are yet to happen;
they will not be remembered by the future generations.“

K32: “It is illusory to believe we are not walking on a razor's edge and a great cataclysm can erase everything humans have worked for in the blink of an eye.”

* Bible – this would be true if it were not for God being in ultimate control: Colossians 1:7 “He himself is before all things and all things are held together in him.”

K32: “The idea of heaven is materialistic as it appears to me. Upon death, why would we go to a world that looks constructed by humans? Pearly gates, golden architecture, high in the clouds, this seems like a human fantasy, not divine awesomeness. It sounds material.”

• Bible --The aforementioned descriptors aren’t meant to be taken literally. They are metaphors. If you showed an ancient person an airplane, how would they describe it? Perhaps like an dragon in the sky? Their frame of reference is limited to their experience and ability to comprehend. If one was to show an earthly person a heavenly thing, how could he describe it, but by earthly comparisons?
o Though beyond that, the great hope that Scripture proclaims isn’t humans becoming disembodied spirits floating on the clouds playing harps. Rather, it is, as 2 Peter 3:13 notes, “But in keeping with his promise we are looking forward to a new heaven and a new earth, where righteousness dwells.” And REvelaiton 21:1 “Then I saw "a new heaven and a new earth," for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.” What the Book of Revelation ultimately describes is the “New Jerusalem” coming down from heaven to earth. In other words, it is a joining, a co-mingling of the two, where there will be no more division between the realm and reign of God with the earthly sphere. We were not created to be angels, we are humans, created for earth.

K32: “If there is a god, then it is likely genderless and far beyond definition or comprehension.”

* Bible – God is indeed genderless, for both men and women are equally created in his image—“So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.” (Genesis 1:27) And God is indeed transcendent and beyond our full comprehension: “It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in” (Isaiah 40:22); ““Can you find out the deep things of God? Can you find out the limit of the Almighty?” (Job 11:7); “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! “For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” “Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” For from him and through him and to him are all things. To him be glory forever. Amen.” (Romans 11:33-36)

K32: “This is why I see sex as a lower form of good; it is not the meaning of life to pair-bond necessarily, rather to extend love and compassion without expectation of reward.”

* Bible – “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40); Jesus says again, “ “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” (Matthew 5:43-48)

K38: “Perhaps the meaning of life is "nothing". But we as humans can't define nothing because we haven't died yet.”

* Bible – The writer of Ecclesiates felt in a similar way to you: “I reflected on everything that is accomplished by man on earth,
and I concluded: Everything he has accomplished is futile—like chasing the wind! What is bent cannot be straightened,
and what is missing cannot be supplied.”
Though in the New Testament, Jesus prays for his disciples (recorded in John 17:3), and says “And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.” We ourselves can’t know what exactly lies beyond the grave, this is true. But the Bible clearly asserts that we can know the One who is Himself eternal, who has conquered and passed beyond death, and through faith in him, we can and will receive that gift of eternal life, which he alone possesses.