Secular and Spiritual?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by RedAppleAle, May 29, 2019.

  1. RedAppleAle

    RedAppleAle Fapstronaut

    Does anyone have any views or opinions on how you can be secular when it comes to religions (agnostic or atheist) but also adopting a spiritual approach to life?

    Any thoughts/opinions are welcome! Thank you for sharing.
     
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  2. drac16

    drac16 Fapstronaut

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    It's possible to be secular and spiritual. LaVeyan Satanism is a good example of that. Their founder, Anton LaVey, was an atheist and LaVeyan Satanism is an atheistic religion. Their scriptures [if you can call it that] are called The Satanic Bible. I have a copy of it and it's an interesting book. He did a good job at exposing a lot of the hypocrisy that are present in Neo-Paganism and Christianity. In my opinion, Satanism will only lead to spiritual darkness, so even though I don't agree with what their religion says, I still respect it. LaVey was a smart man.
     
  3. onceaking

    onceaking Fapstronaut

    You could read the Jefferson Bible. He removed all the supernatural aspects of Jesus life.
     
  4. RedAppleAle

    RedAppleAle Fapstronaut

    Yeah, I think I'll look into that. Could be an interesting read. Thanks for sharing!
     
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  5. RedAppleAle

    RedAppleAle Fapstronaut

    I've heard a little bit about LaVeyan Satanism before, but haven't really looked into too much. My personal view is that you don't necessarily need to identify as being part of a religion to be a spiritual person. I think being spiritual is the ability to recognize the oneness and the connection we have to each other as humans, nature and the universe.
     
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  6. PMS

    PMS Fapstronaut

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    This is undeniably true. Only religious absolutists would argue otherwise. But there are a lot of atheists and agnostics that don't value spirituality. A lot of them listen to people like Richard Dawkins and ignore the brief moments when he mentions that there is nothing wrong with spirituality itself.
    Yeah I agree with this. You got the right idea.

    There is a hole that is being filled by anxiety in our atheistic societies, it was left there by the church when we threw them out of the equation.
     
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  7. Nine

    Nine Fapstronaut

    I absolutely think it's possible to be secular and spiritual at the same time. To me that just means being spiritual without belonging to any particular religion.

    I've studied a variety of religions over the years in my search for answers, and my personal conclusion was that the differences between religions were more cultural than anything else. The core truths were often the same, and they were just dressed up in the stories and traditions that fitted the culture to which they belonged.

    I think those stories and traditions also often make up the biggest flaws of particular religions. It's the reason many religions have stories encouraging rather out-dated and primitive moral standards - it was simply fitting in the cultural context of when these texts were written.

    So I see the value in many religious and spiritual texts and practices, and I've borrowed from different religions extensively, but I don't belong to any particular religion or religious system myself.

    I myself am a believer of sorts, perhaps more "Nature/the Universe is God" than "Big dude the sky", but a believer nonetheless. Yet I also think it's even possible to be spiritual without being a "believer".

    I think spirituality is about seeking to understand yourself and the world around you. For that reason I think to meditate is spiritual, to psychoanalyse is spiritual, and also, I'm a firm believer that science and learning about the world around us is absolutely a spiritual practice too.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2019
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  8. I know where you are coming from. I was there in 2000-2016.
     
  9. PMS

    PMS Fapstronaut

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    What sort of things have you borrowed?
     
  10. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    I would say if you were going by the traditional definition of the word spirituality, then I would say no, secularists cannot be spiritual. Spirituality is concerning the human spirit and the metaphysical rather then the physical, this is core belief that s opposed the an atheistic/secularist view point.

    However most people now a days refer to spirituality as people who are introspective. So in this case, yes secularists and atheists can be introspective because there is no need to believe in any metaphysical elements.
     
  11. PMS

    PMS Fapstronaut

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    I don't think so. A lot of atheist warriors on the internet would have you believe that this connection is absolute, but there are lots of people who identify as atheists who still believe in some form of mysterious origin of the universe, or connectivity between various entities of consciousness.

    Generally the atheist/agnostic view is just one that is anti organized religious practices that make too grand a claim to be sustainable in a society that values logic.
     
  12. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    An atheist can believe whatever he wants to, however this belief is in spite of his atheism not because of it. it's the same as if I were to call myself a Christian and yet believe Jesus was just an ordinary man.

    That's not correct. Traditional atheism is the belief of existence without a God or gods. It has nothing to do with religion or organized religion. You also have many Christians, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus etc who also don't believe in organized religion, not to mention people who believe in a God but not organized religion. Whether an atheist hates organized religion or not, it has nothing to do with his atheism. I know some atheists who are sympathetic towards religion.

    Spirituality isn't a matter of religion, it is a matter of "theism". It is a matter of the metaphysical and immaterial which are concepts directly apposed to the definition of atheism.
     
  13. Nope. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. There's no conflict in not believing in gods yet believing in the immaterial or the metaphysical or the unexplained/unexplainable.
     
  14. PMS

    PMS Fapstronaut

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    Yes you are right. That is the true meaning of the word. But general belief among people who describe themselves as atheistic is not doctrinal. Most atheists who campaign online are unaware that atheism means that you are convinced that the origin of the universe is 100% natural and that there is no mysterious aspect to existence. Most of them are against religious teaching. Most people in the world who just "don't believe", don't call themselves atheist, they don't call themselves anything.
    Yes. But still atheists and agnostics explore the spiritual aspects of their consciousness constantly. If you explore the spiritual in any way, that means you have to unsubscribe from your atheist beliefs? Seems too clear cut for me. And that spirituality is solely within the realm of theism is dogmatic to say the least.
    Agreed.
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
  15. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    Tomato Tomoto
     
  16. SolitaryScribe

    SolitaryScribe Fapstronaut

    Fair, but I think this would generally step outside the scope of traditional atheism. For someone to believe in the existence of the immaterial they usually will not deny an existence of a creator or life source. If atheism simply meant that you don't believe there is a bearded man in the sky zapping things with his finger then in that sense I would also be considered an atheist. However traditionally the definition of atheism is the lack of belief in anything that is outside the material realm... what I'm trying to say is that materialism goes hand in hand with atheism. You can't call yourself an atheist if you believe in souls, spirits, heaven, hell etc. even if you don't believe in God or gods and yet still believe these things to be true then you fall outside the scope of what is known to be an atheist.

    That being said, there are atheistic philosophical arguments for immaterial attributes such as absolutes, without adding other attributes known to be given to God. However these arguments don't really go into detail of things like souls and spiritual realms.

    The issue is, although the word atheism just means 'without god' in layman's terms its true meaning means much more then that. atheism is the rejection of anything that cannot be empirically proven, essentially your throwing God out with his bath water, which means anything of a spiritual nature. You can not have a sound argument for the belief of the immaterial and supernatural from an atheistic view point while also denying the existence of a deity. It's illogical and you would have a very hard time to justify your atheism.
     
  17. Haha. Well if you redefine terms to mean something different than they do then it's hard to communicate. In Greek atheos means godless and that's also the usual definition of atheism, nothing less and nothing more. Buddhism (which is pretty spiritual I'd say) is an atheistic religion.
     
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