Should white people be allowed to write books about minorities?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Castielle, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Well I never claimed it was common outside of the writing community, so... I would be skeptical on that too. Lol

    I really am not assuming that at all. I was simply trying to explain that I'm not that angry about it, and clear up the misunderstanding. I don't think you're making judgements on my character.

    Fair enough. I guess I sometimes use words that are more firm than how I actually feel. It's hard to convey tone through text. I'm not typing this stuff up all red faced and huffing and puffing though, that's all I'm saying. I just like expressive language, I suppose.

    I thought your whole point here was basically to tell me that I shouldn't be bothered about this enough to write a post about it, so that's why I said that. You may not have said those exact words, but that's what I interpreted your point to be. I apologize if I misunderstood.

    This is just a misunderstanding. I was not attempting to make any assumptions about you, nor do I think you were making assumptions about me. I'm sorry if it came across that way.

    I might have gotten you confused with someone else in this thread, honestly, because I know that someone said basically exactly that, and you seemed to agree with them. So that's the opinion I thought you were operating under.

    I'm not attempting to "hide" behind anything. I'm merely stating a fact that I know more about this than most people here. I'm not saying you should take my word for it, you're free to look into it yourself. I'm just saying that if someone who isn't a part of the writing community were to claim that this isn't a serious issue, I would say they can't really make that claim if they haven't done any research on the subject and are just operating under their own assumptions based on their idea of what common sense should be.

    And I'm not saying that to be pretentious in any way or anything. I mean, I would say the same thing about any subject I don't know as much about as someone else. Let's say someone said they noticed a potential problem arising in, say, the gaming community, and that person was a professional game developer, and I told them that I don't think that problem would ever actually become a big issue. I would find it perfectly reasonable for them to say they know more than me about the subject, because that's clearly true. Which to be perfectly fair, you did recognize earlier that you might not know as much about the writing community, but now it seems like you're acting like I'm using my knowledge of a subject as some kind of crutch to "hide behind." That's not my intention at all. But it is relevant to mention. I would trust a game developer's opinion on what social issues are happening in the gaming community more than I would trust my own opinion, as someone who knows nothing about that. I don't see that as a bad thing.

    When did I ever say that I think this will turn into a big physical problem? I'm pretty certain I never said that. I said that it's annoying and that it could potentially be a problem in the future, depending on a myriad of factors.

    I just feel like you're putting too many words in my mouth that I never said.

    I also never said that "I've seen these things, so I'm right." I've actually at multiple times said that you could very well be right, and it's entirely possible that this might not end up being an issue at all in the future. I'm not psychic, so I don't make any claim to know what the future will hold. I only have my guesses based on experience in similar situations, just as you do as well.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
  2. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Okay, I went back to look at where the miscommunication occurred. QuietKarma basically said that we are all dumb for complaining about this stuff, because it's not a big deal, and that we should just ignore it, and you liked that comment and responded to it with "you have a point." So, naturally, I took that to mean that you agreed with that sentiment. I don't think that was some unreasonable leap of logic for me to assume you agreed with something you liked and responded to affirmatively.

    If you don't think that, well, then good, I guess. But that's how it seemed to me. Sorry for the miscommunication, but that's all it was. I'm not over here intentionally trying to twist your words or make mean assumptions about your or something. I'm just responding to what I see you saying, and things can easily get misunderstood through text.
     
  3. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Just to be super clear, due to said easy misinterpretations through text, I am totally calm right now. Lol I'm not even slightly peeved, heart rate completely normal, and I just really want to clear up any misunderstanding and not have this turn into a confrontation for no reason. So that's where I'm coming from in this moment.

    Headed to bed in a bit, have a great night everybody <3
     
  4. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    Yes. Anyone of any color should and have the right to write about anything they wish. This reminds of cultural appropriation. I remember hearing of a white model (can’t remember her name) who posted photos of herself as a Geisha, a Japanese entertainer more or less. She received back lash because she is not Japanese, and actually apologized for it. I found the whole thing absurd.

    People who claim that idiotic crap are speaking souly out of their own “feelings” which we all know are volitile and extremely subject to change. They have absolutely no right to say who can write about what based on gender or ethnicity nor is there any concrete science to validate that opinion.

    Thin skinned is what they are.

    Jesus I’m getting upset just writing.
     
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  5. It's okay, Jesus understands.
     
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  6. QuietKarma

    QuietKarma Fapstronaut

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    I said that you're actively looking in the internet to find the one crazy person who has far left views and complaining about them. It's not a big deal because in real society almost nobody cares if a white person writes a book about a minority.
     
  7. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Uh-huh. And both of those statements are false.

    I watch this girl's videos all the time, because she is a friend of mine and I like her content. I was not actively looking for something to be upset about. I was looking to watch a video about writing advice.

    And yes, this is an issue that is happening in real life, not just some random person on the internet being dumb.

    You're just making blind assumptions that are completely untrue. I agree that a lot of people do that too much (looking for stuff to be upset over), but that's not the case here at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
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  8. I swear, it seems like everytime we talk, one of us ends up misunderstanding the other. This is like the third time it's happened now. :emoji_joy: But no worries. :D

    Onto the original subject.

    In other words, you're saying "I know more than you", not "I know more than you, so I'm right". If so, then this is true. After all, there were subjects I couldn't debate in the past that I had to research simply because of my lack of knowledge in it.

    No, a "big physical problem" in the sense that it will start to affect authors like yourself all around. I want to know about why you think it could because a problem. That was just my own words, I'm not saying you called it that. :p

    I also want to know where you learn about this stuff. Is there a forum you go to for authors? How do you know so many authors are quite liberal? That there's a growing number of publishers refusing to publish books from people "not qualified" to write books about other people. I'm thinking about writing books in the future, so this could be useful. Or not.

    After re-reading, while it's true you never outright said you were right, you never said that I (or the antithetical claim) could be right, not until now. But this is irrelevant now, knowing what you're trying to communicate.
     
  9. Raphael Pereira

    Raphael Pereira Fapstronaut

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    I didn't know i was on 4chan.
     
  10. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Yes, exactly. And sometimes when someone knows more than someone else about something, there is a higher chance that they are right, because they are more informed. That's just logical.

    I think it could become a problem because I've been told that this is a movement that many publishers are getting on board with, and that many authors are in support of. I've also seen this kind of stuff happen a lot lately, with things such as cultural appropriation, people being condemned for not calling a grown man "she," and people getting fired or not getting jobs for incredibly stupid reasons, because of sensitive people who think everything is racist or homophobic. That's not just some paranoid thing conservative people whine about or something. It's actually happening. I've seen it with my own eyes far too many times. So the idea that this notion of publishers not supporting authors who don't have the same background as their main character might catch on is not unlikely at all, and would not surprise me at all.

    Obviously you're welcome to disagree and think that it isn't likely to catch on, but I'm just saying, from what I've seen lately, every single time some idiotic thing comes up that I think "surely there's no way that will catch on, because people have common sense," I end up being wrong and it catches on very quickly and effects people's lives in an negative way. So I just don't have any hope anymore that humanity, at large, has too much common sense for something like this. Past experience has shown me that they don't.

    It's pretty common knowledge that most of "hollywood" and media-type jobs are dominated by liberal ideals.

    But yes, there is a forum on Facebook for authors who make YouTube videos about writing, as well as just the community of authortubers on YouTube. I've gotten to know a lot of them, and watch a lot of their videos, and almost all of the authors I watch have stupid stuff like this in their videos pretty often. Booktubers, too. They say things all the time about, for example, a book being good because there was a lot of diversity, or one of the characters was gay. Or they say they totally loved a book, but then say it was bad because everyone in it was white.

    I'm not saying all authors, obviously. And obviously I haven't polled every single author on the planet to ask them about their political beliefs. I'm not literally saying that "most authors are liberal." There's no way I could possibly know that. I'm just saying that almost every author I know, or person who consumes a lot of books and reviews them online, is totally on board with stuff like this. And honestly, those people's voices are louder than someone who simply writes books and that's it. So again, it would not surprise me at all if publishers look at prominent authors in the YA community or booktubers reviewing YA books and determine that this is something they want.

    I've already seen trends like that happening, like I hardly ever pick up a newer book anymore that doesn't have at least one main character who's gay. Which is fine, but it's clearly a result of liberal people demanding books be more diverse and have more gay people in them, and authors and publishers have given in to that demand.

    There are two other important things to consider. One is something I just realized when I said YA. I primarily read young adult novels, and a lot of the authors and booktubers I am familiar with read/write young adult as well. So I should clarify that I don't really know much at all about other categories of book trends, like adult or middle grade or children's books. So that might have added some confusion as well, if you're thinking more about adult books.

    Another thing is that in my experience, a lot of liberal beliefs are considered "right" these days, and conservative counterparts are not just a different opinion, they are "bigoted" and "wrong." For example, not supportive gay marriage is "wrong," not just a different opinion. I also personally believe, while both sides can certainly be guilty of this, when it comes to consuming media, liberal people tend to be pretty loud about demanding things and not supporting shows or movies or books if they don't meet their demands. I've seen a handful of crazy conservative people boycott a movie simply because there's a gay person in it, but that's definitely not the majority of conservatives in my opinion. I feel like there is a much larger community of, let's just call them what they are, SJWs, who will downright boycott things or give them terrible reviews for NOT having things like diversity or not representing that diversity the way they wanted them to. So I think creators (authors, publishers, producers, TV writers, etc) have decided it's a safer bet, money wise, to cater to those people. Because people like me aren't going to not read a book because there's a gay character. But people like them might not read a book if there's NOT a gay character.

    Idk, of course that last paragraph is entirely just my own opinion, based on personal observation. So it could be completely wrong. But I feel like I've seen so many shows and movies and books leaning further and further left in their plots and character development and messages, so the point is, stuff like what this thread is about does not surprise me anymore, and I wouldn't bat an eye if it become a new industry standard. Yet another reason why I'm self published :)
     
  11. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Also, I wasnt to be clear because I may have used the wrong wording a couple times:

    Not all liberals are SJWs.
    BUT, all SJWs are liberal.

    So I admit I sometimes conflate the two words when I'm speaking, but just know that I do understand they are different. I actually have quite a good amount if liberal beliefs, myself, and I'm not sure I would even call myself a "conservative." And I'm definitely not a Republican. So I'm not trying to demonize liberals here. What I really have an issue with is SJWs, who are almost always liberal.
     
  12. InnerFaith

    InnerFaith Fapstronaut

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    lol, that's one of the silliest stories i heard
     
  13. Pshshsh please. If you think you argue a lot, try hitting up Reddit once in a while. At least here you guys and gals manage to come to peaceful resolutions and both become smarter for it. Out there, on youtube, etc, ...
     
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  14. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    Most of the time... I've had some pretty bad debates here that have ended really poorly. But it's definitely less common than anywhere else on the internet, in my opinion. Which is one reason why I like coming here so much.
     
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  15. Same. I'm a glutton for punishment, however, so I'm posting edge-case-wise anyway.
     
  16. QuietKarma

    QuietKarma Fapstronaut

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    You do realise that anyone who is fighting for justice in the world is an SJW? That makes you an SJW too, because you're saying that its unfair that publishers discriminate against white authors who write about black characters.

    I personally think that publishers aren't discriminating as a whole and i think that you're tactically are cherry picking youtube videos and blog posts made by far left people to create outrage amongst the community and push an agenda.
     
  17. Castielle

    Castielle Fapstronaut

    What a ridiculous claim. How am I "creating outrage"? Is anyone here "outraged" about this? Because I'm certainly not. And I have no "agenda" to push. I literally just reported something interesting I saw in a video and said "I think this is dumb." I fail to see how that qualifies as "pushing an agenda."

    Honestly, you're being ridiculous at this point. You're completely blowing this out of proportion and acting like I'm making this a huge deal or I'm super pissed about it or trying to start some anti-publishing-industry movement or some dumb crap. Nobody's doing that. We're all just trying to have a conversation here.

    I'm not going to reply to such absurd claims again. I'm allowed to make one damn post about something I found a bit annoying. Geez louise. You'd think I asked to start a petition to boycott traditional publishing houses or something. Calm down, dude. It's not that big of a deal. Also, I never even said that publishers are "discriminating as a whole." So... again, you're just putting words in my mouth and trying to counter points that I'm not even making.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2019
  18. Wait so the pitchforks were overkill? DID I HAVE THE WRONG IDEA THIS WHOLE TIME?



    Oh my god I'm a shoopon.
     
  19. Lol calm down. I hear you. We are about to kill each other over things like this, but we're working on it.
     
  20. MuscularSherlockHolmes

    MuscularSherlockHolmes Fapstronaut

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    Stupidity is rampant. And it is increasing at ever slow rate. So, it ain't your fault, or theirs either. Whose fault it is? I don't know. :)
     
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