Some words of advice for the many bisexual/bicurious men on this site

Hey guys ,

I've been off this site for a while due to things having gotten a lot better in my life (and hopefully this can give hope and confidence to those struggling right now), but thought I'd check in to give some advice to those who are addicted to PMO, and who are also struggling with unwanted homosexual thoughts or urges.

I've been a chronic masturbator and porn addict since my early teens (I'm 29 now), and it has caused (or exacerbated) many issues in my life, including PIED, depression, deviant behaviour (sleeping with escorts) and a few other things. I also strongly believe that porn led to me discovering that I have bisexual tendencies, as I would get sporadic gay sex sex fantasies, and this resulted in me being very confused, anxious and depressed. The reason I felt bad about it was due to me having found women attractive my whole life (thus making me question whether I had been living a lie my whole life), internalised homophobia due to my upbringing (Catholic mum and growing up in a toxic masculine environment), and PIED which again made me think that I was gay all along, and never truly liked women. Sound familiar guys?

So when I first came across Gary Wilson and NoFap, I knew I had found part of the answer to my issues, and even though I have relapsed more times than I can count, I have found out firsthand that chronic porn use DOES indeed cause PIED in many many men, and that removing porn and 'chronic' (I think masturbation is healthy sporadically) masturbation from your life does indeed bring back your natural libido and erections.

But this is not why I am writing this. I am doing this because I believe that even though chronic PMO has morphed my sexual tastes somewhat, and desensitised me to sex with beautiful women in real life, these gay sex urges and curiosities that I had were indeed legitimate, and all that porn did was allow me to discover this. I know a lot of men here will be angry to hear this, but I'm always gonna be 100 when I share stuff here.

So in terms of my sexual orientation, I am now more comfortable with admitting that I am probably bisexual/bicurious, and the only reason I can do this right now is because I have learned a great deal more about what bisexuality actually is. Most men don't fully understand what constitutes bisexuality, so let me share.

1) Being bisexual is quite often not a 50/50 split. In my case for example, I am wayyyyyyyyyy more attracted to women than I am men. I'd say 85/15 split in favour of women. That being said, even though I don't really find the male body sexually attractive, I have gotten off to the thought of gay sex, and found the one time I experimented with a man was pleasurable in a different sort of way. So this would line up perfectly with the most poplar definition of bisexuality by Robyn Ochs that goes:

“I call myself bisexual because I acknowledge that I have in myself the potential to be attracted – romantically and/or sexually – to people of more than one gender, not necessarily at the same time, not necessarily in the same way, and not necessarily to the same degree.”

So having learned that bisexuality isn't always a 50/50 split, and that different types of attractions to different gender could co-exist, made me much more comfortable in my sexuality, primarily because I knew that this didn't undermine or undo my attraction for women (the fear of losing this was the biggest problem).

So I guess the combination of my sexual desires for women coming back due to a break from PMO, whilst also learning to accept that I'm probably bisexual, has honestly made me so much more content in myself guys, and I'm currently seeing the most wonderful girl in a long distant relationship (due to Covid sadly) at the moment, and things couldn't be better . I also told her right away that I might be bisexual, and this is the best thing I've done as it means that I don't need to obsessed about it anymore, and that I don't need to be something that I'm not for her.

I still have a way to go to fully embrace my bisexuality (being more open about it with friends), but right now, as long as my girl knows and is cool with it, then I feel great.

I spent time writing this as I have seen many similar stories of unwanted gay urges or fantasies, and just wanted to let these guys know that removing porn and 'chronic' masturbation from your life, whilst also accepting and being at peace with the fact that you might be bisexual or bicurious if you still find women attractive, but also find men attractive too (or enjoy gay sex). If you do this, I promise, things will get better . Accepting that you might be bisexual/bicurious might also lead to you being so much more relaxed that you find that you aren't even these things, and that it was all in your head. Not always, but it is possible.

Last but not least, if you deep down have never found women attractive (romantically or sexually), and are getting same-sex attractions and/or fantasies, then you are most probably gay, and you should stop denying this as there is absolutely nothing wrong with homosexuality, and you should always live your truth. This is the one thing I don't like about NoFap - it has many many homophobic individuals who are just anti-gay period. Whether you are straight, gay, bisexual, transgender, it doesn't matter to me, we are all in this together .

Much love peeps, and best of luck with all of your recoveries.

 

Agreed. Very eloquently stated, too.
For myself; I love women first, but have no qualms about making out with a man. Depends on my mood, depends on the person. No big deal to me either way.

 

Good for yourself that you found the answer, but it's not the same for all of us, unfortunately. Yes, there are some individuals on this site that are quite homophobic, but this is not all. I've seen people who promote toxic modern-day feminism ideology, BLM and others things which are quite unpleasant to see.

I'm in the same situation, maybe a little bit worse. I've watched all types of pornography in this 9 years span. From straight to not-so-pleasant ones like gore. At first, I didn't care, until almost 4 months ago when anxiety, depression and not long after, suicidal thoughts kicked in. I didn't know and I don't know what to do even at this moment.

I've tried to accept that I might be bisexual 2 months ago and let's say...it didn't end well at all. I didn't felt relaxed or something near relaxation and inner peace. It was just more fuel for my anxiety and depression. I never had sex with a man and I'll never do. I will never have a relationship with a man because I don't find men attractive in reality. For me it was just porn, porn and more porn. I didn't have any problem with my sexuality until 4 months ago. I was extremely sure who I am and what I want to do, but yeah...things got messy.

On your opinion, what should I do? Trying to accept that I might be bisexual again and this time...I might finish what I started last time? I don't know. When I tried to accept my ,,bisexuality'' it felt like a big damn lie, like something forced into my head. All I want is my life back, to feel good with myself again, to have the motivation and the will to keep pushing forward, to become the person that I strive to be for years.

 

There are other reasons for this - as I have tried to post before but gay activists keep getting deleted- it is well documented that childhood molestation can lead to acting out of or fantasizing about such behavior. There are other well documented reasons for fantasy as well.

And not all fantasies are healthy- many are downright unhealthy - rape fantasies for example -whether you fantasize about being raped or raping. Nobody just says 'oh that's your core sexuality'. I wish I could say that about pedophillia but that's the latest thing the crazies are trying to mainstream.

As I mentioned on other (deleted) threads - I was molested by man at age 9 - fortunately 'mild' compared to what others have suffered but nevertheless it affected me - with self-work, spiritual comfort and prayer, journaling and reading books about it like The Body Keeps the Score= the dark, unwanted fantasies have faded. I only wish to share that information with others - and gay activists here get that info deleted. How dare they try to keep someone suffering from this hell from seeking healing. My guess is they want to drag people down into their own personal hells rather than seek healing.

someone can find homosexual behavior objectionable or immoral (just like they can find promiscuity or drug use or alcohol abuse objectionable or immoral to promote) and not 'hate' people who choose to identify as homosexual. Homophobic is a short cut and slur - it implies there is no thought behind, say, Aristotle's objection to homosexuality or every major religion's objection to it - and yes that includes Buddism. Saying 'homophobic' is slandering and libeling literally millions of people and deeply held beliefs. If you have some 'arguement' against it, fine, but name calling is a mental shortcut implying you really haven't thought it through.

Yes, but why do gay activists delete and block information for people who don't want those fantasies or urges.

**sadly I have to copy this post offline because gay activists will try to get it deleted.

 

Yeah this is what people don't understand and activists just say you're 'repressing' your 'true' self - I personally believe all fantasy is like dreams - the 'characters' whether man or woman all are aspects of one's self.

They literally cannot be fulfilled in real life they are allegory and representation of needs and wants and fears of real life.

 

Where do you think these urges come from? Your advice is contrary to the accepted wisdom of the ages - no healthy culture, philosophy or even self governance says 'oh just give into and follow your feelings'. We know where it leads with pornography and sex -and drugs, and alcohol.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11501300/
Forty-six percent of the homosexual men in contrast to 7% of the heterosexual men reported homosexual molestation.

Is it possible that some root causes of urges and feelings are trauma? looks like it.


I agree 'accepting' the existence of these feelings is a good step - rather than denial or ignore - but what you do with them is what is important.
Jay Stringer in the book Unwanted says fantasies tell us where we need healing - that is a more important path than simply indulging in these 'fantasies' particularly if they seem out of touch with your normal reality and are triggered, for example by anxiety.

 

Yeah, let's say you go to have sex with a guy in reality because some individuals say would reveal your ,,true self'' but...it didn't have the result that you were expecting. You will result with something much more horrible: shame and guilt that will be so big you will never recover from it. And all of this will not end with a happy ending like those individuals that encouraged to do this said. I've read so many cases where people tried this and for some...it didn't end so well. I was very close to that and I didn't even tried to act out in reality. Porn is enough to make me uncomfortable with the idea, now imagine if I even try to do something in reality. I will be scarred for my entire life. For some might work, but for others...not so much.

We all need to realize that with this case, where you are confused about your sexuality because of porn, it's not only one side of the coin where you are pretty much ,,forced'' to accept that you are x sexuality besides that you've been identifying all your life, but it's still one other side where you might be just very confused and have no urge to pursue in reality what you watch on you screen. But many people see only the first side.

 

First, I believe you can recover from it - it's hard but it is possible - but the whole problem here is a bigger philosophical one, I think that sex or indulgence in pleasure leads to self actualization or fulfillment - this has been contrary to every great philosophy of self governance throughout history. It is literal hedonism and if you examine the lives of the people who engage in it in the end they end up suicidal, regretful, unhappy - because like a drug with each episode they need a stronger dose.

Yep. many as you mentioned become depressed or suicidal, - and activists just tell them they need more of it! Thats like telling an alcohlic to drink his way out of his trouble.

 

check your premises:
https://www.yourbrainonporn.com/ybo...d-the-brain/are-sexual-tastes-immutable-2012/
It’s time to distinguish ‘sexual orientation’ from reversible ‘sexual tastes’
“The bulk of scientific evidence currently favors the view that the origins for most sexual desires are not cultural but innate.” —Leon F. Seltzer

Such statements mislead people that all sexual inclinations are created equal and are immutable. This is simply not true.

Yes, genitals quite often fire up without our commanding them. Yet researchers have shown that mammals can be conditioned (and sometimes reconditioned) to adjust their sexual response with surprising ease. Even humans have managed to increase or suppress penile erection or vaginal pulse in the lab when offered monetary reinforcement and/or instructional feedback.

Indeed, most of us have a good bit of indirect say over our sexual tastes (as contrasted with our sexual orientation). Brains are plastic. The truth is we are always training our brains—with or without our conscious participation. We can choose to avoid, pursue, and cease pursuit of, stimuli that condition our sexual tastes in particular directions.

 

The last thing you mentioned, reminded me of some transsexual people (who had the sex-change surgery) that in an average span of 5 years want to have their old bodies back, but sadly, they can't. These people are not helped by the same LGBTQ community that encouraged them to do it and then they are left behind, overshadowed by the ,,happy'' cases.

 

You make some good points about how conditioning can lead to certain sexual tastes, but I have to say this, but from everything I read, I can tell that you are not at all comfortable with homosexuality in general, and think it is wrong. The reason I say this is because you have equated homosexual acts to 'hedonism'. For your information, if someone has gay thoughts and urges, and is very anxious about, no, I don't think they should go through with it as many sexologists recommend. Everyone should do what they feel comfortable with. But I'll be honest, I can sense that both you and the other guy are very uncomfortable with your sexualities, so all I can say is sorry to hear that you feel this way.

But one thing I will say is that regardless of porn, sexuality is not black and white, and that a LOT more men that you realise have had (or have) same-sex attractions, but are completely closeted or in denial about it. I wouldn't be surprised if a large percentage of men are bisexual to a certain extent, but won't admit it or aren't aware of it due to years of social conditioning.

But do whatever makes you feel happy dude. We are all different and have our own way of surviving, but if you are indeed in denial, trust me, you'll carry on struggling with your demons.

P.S Homosexuality doesn't equate to kink or any of the other artificial fetishes that I believe is propagated by porn. It's a totally normal sexuality that has been kept in the dark due to institutionalised religious guilt.

 

I really don't think having sex with a guy is the answer when you are so insecure with yourself. So I agree with you here - sexologists shouldn't be suggesting this to people who are confused and anxious. It will just lead them to be even more confused and anxious. What you do need to do mate is to stop the porn and masturbation for a while, but also not try to push away these gay thoughts. Trust me, they will get stronger and more uncomfortable the more you try to suppress them.

I don't know you, but how is your sex life with women? Have you had many girlfriends in the past, and have you enjoyed sex with them? If so, then you are not gay, so don't worry if this is what you are worried about. That's why being bisexual isn't anywhere near as bad as men think. Being bisexual doesn't mean you have to go out and have sex with men. It just means you can get off to having sex with men if you chose to, or have the potential to find men attractive. We are sexual creatures mate, and you'll be surprised how many men have gay urges or fantasies (more than you realise). They just don't admit it.

Your sexuality doesn't define you, so I know it's easy to say, but try to focus on more important things like work, family and friends. The less you obsess about your sexuality (combined with not using porn and masturbating a lot), the more you will see your natural sexuality come to light (whether this be straight, gay or bisexual).

 

Do you know the actual stats on homosexual behavior (number of partners, cheating, disease, drug use, depression, sucicide? of course you'll blame it on 'homophobia' even though this occurs in 'friendly' countries like holland at the same rate)

No, I said that long standing religions and philosophies saw it as against nature and not good for human beings to indulge in.

Again you are insulting people's religious beliefs by simply either brushing them off as 'homophobic' or 'denial'.

I posted a link between molestation and perceived sexuality. Do you really think people should indulge in this behavior and just accept it because they were victims of homosexual predators?

As I mentioned there can be a lot of reasons for these feelings, not all good reasons, and again I believe there are different types of 'fantasy' on the street, I immediately think about sex when a good looking women passes by, that's a natural urge, alone - fantasizing, often around a 'theme' is all internal and sexual fantasizing is often a sexualized need (the same way that eating disorders are emotional neeeds that are mis-directed and NOT healthy coping)

I have literally never seen a man on the street I am attracted to. I only look at women - and do so naturally, and naturally have desires to touch, feel and smell in a sexual way. I can tell you if a man is handsome, but I am not at all attracted to one sexually.

I did at the height of my addiction and despair question my sexuality - that's what PMO, fantasy etc does to you.

Did you read a word I said about being molested and repeating trauma?

This is just repeating 'establishment catchphrases and slogans, and again failing to make the distinction between behavior, urges and 'identity' .

 

We disagree on much, but on this we agree, though I would phrase it your 'sexual tastes'

 

Yeah one big problem, my all-sexual life has been centralized around porn only. And this thing with porn that didn't match my sexual orientation started 12 - 14 months ago. Before that I didn't have any interest in it and I was very discustsed by it.

I didn't have any girlfriends or sex. I had many crushes on girls but I was too afraid of being rejected and I had insecurities about my body. I always thought if I have porn I don't need a girlfriend even though I wanted to. Even when the girl will make the first step I always pushed back because of my fear. Since the age of 18 I feel this loneliness, I want a girlfriend so bad, but...I still am very insecure about myself and my body and this thing with ,,bisexuality'' was the cherry on top of my all problems. When I mentioned above what I did when I tried to accept that I might be bisexual was su****e.

And day by day I feel like I fall into a deep void. This loneliness is killing me and this might be another reason that I might go to the path of su****e again. I imagine daily how my life would have been if I wasn't so stupid and introverted. Everyday I dream about having a girlfriend and I try to motivate myself going out and be more sociable, but it's not so easy.

So, be thankful that you have a girl that cares and loves you, because some of us may not be so lucky in this life.

 

This is just repeating 'establishment catchphrases and slogans, and again failing to make the distinction between behavior, urges and 'identity'

Homosexual behaviour? What do you mean when you say this lol? You do realise that two men can fall in love with each other, and live very normal and fulfilling lives right (with no diseases). Yes, the gay community are definitely more promiscuous than the heterosexual community imo, but whether you are gay or straight, you can still have safe sex with a partner who you love. So I don't see what the problem is here?

No, I said that long standing religions and philosophies saw it as against nature and not good for human beings to indulge in.

Again you are insulting people's religious beliefs by simply either brushing them off as 'homophobic' or 'denial'.

I posted a link between molestation and perceived sexuality. Do you really think people should indulge in this behavior and just accept it because they were victims of homosexual predators?

I'm sorry, but the fuck are you talking about? Who gives a crap about long standing religions and philosophies - they are some of the most backward things ever. Are you honestly going to tell me that if you saw two men who were happily in love, that you would find it disgusting or distasteful because the bible (a book written by humans) said it is wrong to be gay?

Any religious belief that goes against people wanting to live their lives in a different yet non-harmful way does not belong in the 21st century.

Also, I'm very sorry to hear about you being molested as a child, and this has certainly created a lot of trauma for you. But rather than disliking homosexuality, what you should instead be doing is working on improving yourself with therapy and other things. Trust me, you will never truly recover if you obsess about molestation turning you a bit gay. It sounds hard, but you need to move on mate - it's the only way to recover.

As I mentioned there can be a lot of reasons for these feelings, not all good reasons, and again I believe there are different types of 'fantasy' on the street, I immediately think about sex when a good looking women passes by, that's a natural urge, alone - fantasizing, often around a 'theme' is all internal and sexual fantasizing is often a sexualized need (the same way that eating disorders are emotional neeeds that are mis-directed and NOT healthy coping)

Once again, it's all about how bad and wrong homosexuality is for you. You need to stop worrying about this, and just chill dude. It's great that you like women, and you might indeed be straight. But who knows, you 'might' be bisexual too, and are just so in denial about it that you want to fight against everything to do with homosexuality. Either way, you need to calm down, or you'll never find peace.

This is just repeating 'establishment catchphrases and slogans, and again failing to make the distinction between behavior, urges and 'identity'

Sorry to say this, but I think you may indeed be in denial if this is what you truly think. Are there homosexuals who enjoy kink? Yes. Are there homosexuals who don't enjoy kink, and who have perfectly normal relationships like heterosexual couples? Yes.
How can you not see that homosexuality, for many men, is literally natural? Are you really going to say that all homosexual men became homosexual due to their environments? Please don't be so stupid.

 

Yeah, Buddha, Jesus, St. Paul, Aristotle, Plato, who cares about those idiots, the Gita, Meditations, Bible, Koran, just junk right? i just want to live free! unwittingly you are following one of the most dangerous and destructive philosophies ever created but not surprising.

And what do you propose do to do wipe it out? What the communists did?

Trust you? Because you know.. what? I think you missed the part of my post where I said I was doing those things, no where do I obsess.

Any curiosity as to why? Or why sucicide rates and drug use and depression are higher? Maybe something to do with trauma and trying to 'cure' it in the wrong way, which is exactly what I am talking about when I reference the body keeps score.

Maybe that is your problem?

Did you understand what I wrote about negative or unwanted fantasies of any kind - not just same sex- or autoerortic which might be what a lot of it is. There is literally no satisfying an internal sexual fantasy of the kind I describe, in the real world. It is symbolism not a reality to be manifested.

Especially if these only arise during times of anxiety. If you are really interested in the root causes of these I would suggest reading The Body Keeps the Score or Unwanted by Jay Stringer.

But it doesn't sound like you are.


Would you tell someone having unwanted rape fantasies to just indulge in it? Or pedo?
I hope not.

 

Because I believe that I am not defined by unwanted sexual fantasy, especially unwanted ones that are the result of childhood trauma, I am in denial. Got it.

So anyone who finds issue with a type of sexual behavior is secretly defined by that behavior. Got it. So I guess that makes you a closet puritain .

If someone started drinking and started drinking more and more and then escalated to harder drugs, would you just say 'oh that's the true you'?

 

Sorry to hear this dude.

I have been lucky to have had sexual experiences and girlfriends in the past, but for the last few years, I have been very lonely and unlucky with girls myself, so I know how sad it can be

And sorry to say this, but you need to stop obsessing about 'having a girlfriend'. This is the problem a lot of men have - they want a girlfriend for the sake of having a girlfriend. Instead, you should be focusing on 'liking someone' that you met somewhere (work, party or on the street), and trying to get to know them better. If you focus on having a girlfriend for the sake of it, not only is this unhealthy, but it will also put SO much pressure on you.

And take it from me dude, being bisexual is so normal (sooooo many men are bisexual), and no where near as bad as people think. I'm not saying you are bisexual btw (I don't know you so I can't say), but as someone who is bisexual himself, my girl actually finds it really cool, and hasn't judged me for it once. If you were straight and were worried that you were gay, then I might understand why you would be anxious, but being bisexual doesn't stop you from being interested in girls haha . That's why I never understand why men are scared of bisexuality. You can still have fun with girls .

And if you don't mind me asking, where are you from in the world, and how old are you? The reason I ask is because this might be influencing the way you feel.

 

I don't want to hurt your feelings and make you feel any more confused than you are, so I'm gonna leave it now.

All I hope is that you feel happy and content with life. I think we can both agree with this mate

But I honestly won't be surprised to see you still writing on these boards in years to come due to your outlook of the world. Like I said, you thinking homosexuality is wrong and unnatural is part of the problem, and these urges and thoughts will continue to persist the more you fight them. I'm not saying you should go out and have sex with men, but you need to chill and stop being so scared of it as well.