Stronger desire for M than for sex

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by Merry Terry, Jan 5, 2020.

  1. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    So, I've been learning this as I went along with trying to control my addiction to P and M: I find that for the last 20 years - which were the years in which sex has been a factor in my mind and life - my drive and desire to sit at home masturbating to some story or images has always been stronger than my drive to have sex with a person.

    I've always been shy and not easy in making contact, especially afraid of bodily contact with anyone, even clumsy in hugging my friends. Finally I realised that my drive to touch people, and do more, is not as strong as I think other people have it. Which is fine, because it's not absent at all, occasionally I have had strong sexual clicks with people, just not with every girl I meet.

    But almost separate from that, I still had this desire, that found its way in reading stimulating stories and watching stimulating material and masturbating to that, that grew and grew until it became this habit that I've indulged in a lot - even doing it at work. Now I've been trying to get rid of it for 7 years, with varying results, but now it's going very well. However, I still find that I feel like sitting by myself masturbating more often and more strongly than I feel like having sex with my own girlfriend. Because sex still scares me on some level, whereas masturbating gives me a kind of pleasure that I have much more control over.

    I don't want to indulge in that childish and unsocial behaviour ever again and I'm confident that I'm on the right path of getting it out of my life. But I'm starting to realise that it's connected with this really fucked up connection with sexuality that might take a long time to fully heal.

    So I was wondering if this is recognisable for some of you here, and if you have found ways to deal with it and heal.
     
  2. i_have_pizza

    i_have_pizza Fapstronaut

    I perfectly understand you. I hate to touch other people and only alcohole reduces this ... disgust. But in phantasies it's work different. Also on nofap road I felt, that porn itself for me more desirable, than M and sex with people. Like. I want just to watch it. Without even touching myself. But this thing is related to dopamine I think.

    I'm not sure, that desire for sex with people will return to me. I guess it's will be always like this. Only workaround I know - be with person for some time, than u're getting used to touching this person, but yes, this is annoying, when I just want to go to date and have sex. I was using "I want to know you better" workaround, but this sucks.

    That's one of the reasons why I don't like to keep short distance with people socially. They starting to do more ... physical contact. And even it is one of the reasons of moving to another country because of calture of handshaking. I feel so much better without it.
     
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  3. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your perspective, @i_have_pizza. For me, I think the aversion to touching and sex is not as strong as it is for you. I do have a physical connection with certain people and I want to be intimate with them. It's just that there's a certain risk involved in actual sex - it can disappoint, you can be rejected, etc - that isn't there when watching something or reading and just being by yourself, so I have always unconsciously strived for that situation much more than I have tried to have sex with people.

    Now I have realised that masturbating has also kept me in a constant flow of unfulfilled desire, frustration and self-hatred all those years. But I see the attraction it had on me, and still has on me, though I am determined to break free from it. Just being a person that doesn't have so much sex is so much better than a frustrated one spending so much of my free hours masturbating.
     
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  4. CodeTalker

    CodeTalker Fapstronaut

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    Same. I tried to stop P but while allowing M. it didn’t work. I wasn’t feeling satisfied without P and the urges was still there. That’s when I realized porn was the real issue here.
     
    Last edited: Jan 6, 2020
  5. When I was in high school and my sex drive was through the roof . I'd fantasize pretty much all the time , about all the hot girls in my school. But I would fantasize even more about girls that I would flirt with and girls that flirted back , just constant sexual tension day in day out . Yes I watched porn , but not nearly as much now, because porn wasn't as easily accessible then as it is now. Sure I watched porn and had videos on my phone , but nothing like it is today.

    I just thought about girls all day long when it came to something potentially happening , you can guarantee I was primed and ready lol .

    The thing is, your behaviour , your outlook, your hormones everything , all play a part , if you are depressed and have no confidence you are not outgoing .
    This can have an effect on a lot .
    It's easier to watch porn because it's literally just clicking and scrolling, in high school I was walking around getting random hard ons all day long , and flirting with girls just became second nature , but you have to work on yourself and confidence when your in high school your in a little bubble , and you have so much time everyday around girls .

    Today's generation is fucked, everything is online , your lives are online . When I was in high school music was less commercialised and was much more exciting , people actually had personality's , today everyone's on there phone .
    And people are spoilt for choice with everything with little effort .

    It only seems natural that people are less interesting , and have access to almost every experience in life but through the eyes of someone else , it's all online . Experience life by watching someone else .

    Your probably more interested in porn because porn these days is addictive . People are more stuck up these days and have little personality . So I can see how porn could be more interesting .

    The reality if it is , don't focus so much on porn , direct your attention and at real girls and getting to know them .

    Do you not want to get with actual girls. When I was in high school that was pretty much all that dominated my thoughts ,

    Maybe it's a sign of the times . Maybe you just need to watch less porn and put yourself out there more until you make it .

    Youl never do that by just sitting on the fucking internet all day .
    The internet has made us so goddamn lazy
     
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  6. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Just to set something straight right away, I'm 37 :) So I haven't been in high school for a loooong time, and only started watching porn really when I was in my early 20s, because before that I didn't have that much access to the internet - just as you describe.

    But to be honest, when I was in high school, I was not like you at all. I did not have that drive that you describe, really. I was in love sometimes, but it was this idealised, romantic thing, no actual sexual fantasies involved. I was a late bloomer, I guess.

    Ever since then, I've grown a lot and have had healthy sexual relationships from time to time and I'm in one right now. But I still feel this attraction to doing PM because it seems like this safe and private thing - even though I've learned I have to stay away from it because it keeps me insecure and trapped in some virtual world where I look at things that I don't even want to do that much in real life. I've been on a good streak getting that out of my life, but I still feel the pull from it and I'm learning about what it is more and more as I go along.
     
  7. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Totally. I think there’s a couple of distinctions to be made, one is sexuality becomes conflated with sensuality, and the other is the antisocial factor where PMO being that and sex being normal, socially engaged “version” of the same drive.



    I’m not sure what to do about the sexuality/sensuality distinction - though that also happens on both a social and non-social level. On a social level it’s probably hard to find people who are clear about the difference, if that was the case people would be touching each other a lot more and giving each other massages left and right in a totally platonic way, and that’s just not the reality. On a non-social level it may take the form of taking care of your body through touch, but beyond instinctually rubbing the body a little when we hurt it we don’t tend to relate the body as much more than a vehicle, and as a result we don’t live as healthily as we could. I used to do therapeutic massage and I have NEVER taken care of myself thoroughly in that way, not even in the parts of the body where I can reach and work out knots. Shit, if I therapeutically massaged myself as much as I did PMO (especially considering amount of time edging) I would probably be in a lot better shape simply because I would have less pain, gotten into less injuries and more active, which likely translates to better BMI and body composition and better health.



    I guess off the top of my head being engaged in non-sexual, therapeutically sensual relating with my own body should help both in terms of making that distinction and just prevent freaking osteoarthritis from getting worse. M is using the body to get off, it’s the opposite of taking care of yourself therapeutically.



    And on a social level, get out there and IF, and I know it’s a very big if where there’s a setting where people can exchange platonic touch at this point, I do think can do it by simply being honest with my intention on various levels. (how does the group look, what’s my motivation for asking for THAT particular person if it’s a woman etc.) I just don’t even know if I have the time to date at this time in my life anyway. Some people are kind of hippyish here so it is within the realm of possibility but feeling free about touch obviously also cuts boths ways, some people are very restrained and some people are just NOT – but what we’re talking about is touching with a completely different intention and that being crystal clear – and of course being clear that there are a ton of people who are not comfortable with being touched. Even if you never touch an inappropriate part of the body it’s different to touch someone to comfort them vs. an intention to get them to satisfy your sexual desire.



    Simple rule of thumb: Don’t use people and don’t use ones own body.
     
  8. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Yes, you're right, @Awedouble, sexuality vs. sensuality is confusing.

    I guess, for a lot of people, they blend into each other, though, and I guess that's normal. For me, I was always queasy of touch in general, I didn't have this thing where I was comfortable being in my body and being intimate on a platonic, friendly level. So when I felt a bit more for a person, I couldn't just go there naturally, or test the waters in a friendly matter and then move on when it felt right. Instead, I avoided hugging and being intimate and all that.

    So when I grew actual sexual urges, it felt like such a huge jump to just go ahead and touch people: I didn't know how to do it, it felt scary. Which of course, I know now, is also part of the fun and the excitement of sex and intimacy. But then, while very clumsily trying to get over what felt like a huge hurdle, I discovered erotic stories, and just sitting at home by myself was suddenly this whole new of experiencing sexuality without any of the scary stuff.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
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  9. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    It's a very interesting point you make about being kind and caring about your own body to begin with, @Awedouble: that's also something that never even occured to me basically for the first 30 years of my life. I either saw my body as a source of shame and resentment or as a tool. The more and more I dig into everything surrounding PM for me, I find I have to work on loving myself more than anything. It's gotta start there, or nothing will ever really change.
     
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  10. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    i made a topic on the same subject. Masturbating was more pleasant than sex. I craved masturbation, i did not crave sex. I understand most of the forum disagrees with me but when one craves to jerk off rather than have sex he is dealing with homosexual impulses and addictions. Basically jerking off is a gay/bisexual act. You stop needing/wanting vagina cause you got accustomed to penis.
     
  11. i_have_pizza

    i_have_pizza Fapstronaut

    excuse me, what?
     
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  12. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    I said "Basically jerking off is a gay/bisexual act. You stop needing/wanting vagina cause you got accustomed to penis."
     
  13. What are you talking about ,when people jerk off , there not getting hard at the fact they have there own dick in there hand, they get hard at the stimulus they see visually or visually in there mind . There is not gay connection it's simply someone pleasuring themselves to what they see visually on porn . If you go without having sex for a longtime and continue to jerk off , don't use it you lose it , it's not that someone becomes accustomed to penis there accustomed to jerking off , and have less need ,I but more of a lack in emotional connection .I dont know where this jerking off is gay / bisexual came from , total bollocks ,
     
  14. ultrafabber

    ultrafabber Fapstronaut

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    The visual stimulus is one type of stimulus - heterosexual if one looks at women only. If one looks at "straight" or "boy-girl" porn, it is bisexual.

    The sensory stimulus is another type of stimulus and is 90% homosexual. You feel a warm, erect penis and you stroke and squeeze it harder to get more aroused, eventually orgasming feeling an erect penis. Those are layers upon layers of homosexual behaviors.
     
  15. Rehab101

    Rehab101 Fapstronaut

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    My problem is I only care that I feel good. Sex is too much work and the work makes me soft.... If in don't have a good visual and stimulation, I get soft. I still have lots of work to learn how to have sex with my partner. It's hard for me to not have the perfect visual from the perfect 10 looks from internet.
     
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  16. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Eh, okay. I don’t think your logic holds up. But even if it did: I’m not homophobic, so I couldn’t care less if jerking off made me more gay or bi. I’m concerned with how PM made me indulge in being anti-social. That’s the problem. There’s nothing wrong with homosexuality, man.
     
  17. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I know what you’re saying. And it’s very problematic, obviously. We put our heads full of these fake images and ideas till the point that we can’t function as social beings anymore.
     
  18. i_have_pizza

    i_have_pizza Fapstronaut

    Oh, that's easy. In porn you see perfect act without all of this problems u usually meet in real life. It's like in films. But films not makes this powerfull dopamine shot. And you starting to prefer more simple connection with people - in porn, because it's less dangerous. You know, that it hard to being alone without a humans for long time, so, porn replaces this mechanism and forces you to feel not alone, and your brain binds to this.

    But also it maybe not related to porn.
     
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  19. Gota

    Gota Fapstronaut

    This is very familiar for me. I think one the reasons for this might be how we accept ourselves and are we comfortable showing 'the true-self' to others. I realize overall that I'm ashamed of my body (getting naked in front of other people always was unpleasant for me) and I'm ashamed of showing my sexuality (for example I would feel ashamed ejaculating in front of woman). Not suprisingly I was never able to have sex (I have tried few times, but couldn't get hard at all even if I had very strong sexual desire. It just didn't worked like someone have switched all my sexual functions off). And I suppose the reason behind my inability to have sex was fear.

    One of the reasons why I abstained from porn and masturbation was realization that I will never have real sex if I'll continue to PMO. PMO is much safer and comfortable way to satisfy your sexual needs than the real relationship and I know I'm very hard to get out of my comfort zone and pursue the real intimacy fearing to fail again, be rejected, feel uncomfortable, etc. Everytime I used to see some sexual interest from women towards me I felt strong fear. I abstained from PMO more than 2 years ago and I have noticed that this fear became somehow weaker, but it's still here and I'm still trying to understand the true reasons behind this better.

    And as you, I somehow feel uncomfortable to have bodily contact with other people. I can't say it's unpleasant for me, I would say I just feel shy to touch someone or be touched. Maybe this comes from the lack of bodily contact in the childhood. I grew up alone having no siblings and I don't remember my parents hugging me often.
     
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  20. Merry Terry

    Merry Terry Fapstronaut

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    Thanks for your perspective, @Gota. I think the fear for sex doesn't go away just by abstaining from PMO. We then have to deal with our fear in one way or another - either overcome it or learn to accept it. And PMO is a way of not dealing with it at all, instead, it's pretending it's not there by escaping into a dream world, but making the problem way worse in the meantime. So quitting PMO is a start, to make ourselves ready to face our actual problems. Which is still very difficult.

    Also, I recognise what you say about bodily contact: for me, too, it's not unpleasant, but I'm afraid to do it beforehand. When I get past that, I usually like it. But it's a huge step to take.
     

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