This article says, “Sex Addiction Doesn’t Exist”...

[SensibleChuckle]

So obviously, I’m new here. But up until this evening, I haven’t taken the time to really do some proper research on what I’m dealing with here.


I’ve been told I’m inherently selfish and that it’s my responsibility to continuously allow myself to experience shame and guilt for the betrayal my partner feels as a result of my porn use. These feelings are compounded by the fact that many on this site seem to impose this same sense of shame (not accountability, not ‘tough love’, etc.) on one another in the name of ‘getting healthy’...and honestly, I’ve seen some super weird comments on here, guys.


Personally, I’m a huge skeptic, I don’t look for excuses to give up doing something hard, but if I’m going to do something difficult, and something that I need to do for myself and my relationship, then I need to have some solid facts based in current scientific research to rely on in order to bolster my confidence.


I believe that Patrick Carne’s research and methods are outdated, oversimplified, and based more on culture and outdated moral and religious beliefs that often pathologize non-problematic behaviors, essentially putting the uninformed at risk of neglecting to address deeper issues in their lives outside of PMO (but may be causing compulsive PMO behaviours). I aim to persue therapy in combination with community engagement on this site as a means of getting to a place where I feel I’m in control.


So let me know what you think of this article it’s pretty much a super well-researched summary of everything I’ve learned tonight and by far the best science-based advice I’ve found outside of NoFap. Let me know what you think.


Of course, any words of encouragement are most welcome. Cheers.

 

[PMO addict]

I've been through a back-and-forth swing of being un-aware of any concepts regarding sex when I was young, except some shaming from my parents. But just doing PMO a lot as a habit. Also without really considering any negative side effects much. Then I got into recovery in 2013 for marijuana addiction and eating disorder and addressed other issues too, eventually becoming very puritanical about sex. Then in 2016 I came accross Dr. Darrel Ray saying that its really a shame or guilt addiction and that the shame and guilt only comes from religious beliefs. So from 2016-2018 I swung the other way towards being very liberal with my PMO use again. If I'd have found a partner then I'd have also done it with them. Now I think the "pendulum" is swinging back to the middle again, not in a puritanical way but just realizing that, okay. Sex isn't "bad" like the religions said. But maybe I do see some negative effects when I over-do it. I don't tolerate the toxic shaming or criticism or adrenalizing stuff. So I'm not swinging to the puritanical/repressive side, but not to the hypersexualized side either. I feel like I've reached a good balance now from going to either extreme. I think that my relationship with sex itself has been like my relationship with food, swinging from extremes of binging and restricting based on excessively strict philosophies I was taught as a kid, and then rebelling against them to swing the other way. Now I am not really in "obediance" or "rebellion" of any external system (even nofap's website). I am my own person and I am just here to take better care of myself. I like to stay off PMO because it boosts my lucid dreaming practice a lot. In addition to that I feel more present in my life and able to cope with things. Also, for me, PMO addiction became a real experience, I was unable to stop if I took just one look. There might be people who could control and enjoy it and there might be people who can't control themselves. I think the sex addiction concept gets some resistance because it has caused some non-addicted people to lean towards the repressed side. But I think the sex addiction concept has also helped a lot of people who actually experienced addiction-like behavior with PMO, escorts, massages, multiple partners, etc. I am just trying to find what works for me.

 

[PMO addict]

Oops! I didn't press "Enter" once. Didn't expect to write that much. LOL. That's why I don't write for a magazine!!

 

[MasterRoshi]

So obviously, I’m new here. But up until this evening, I haven’t taken the time to really do some proper research on what I’m dealing with here.


I’ve been told I’m inherently selfish and that it’s my responsibility to continuously allow myself to experience shame and guilt for the betrayal my partner feels as a result of my porn use. These feelings are compounded by the fact that many on this site seem to impose this same sense of shame (not accountability, not ‘tough love’, etc.) on one another in the name of ‘getting healthy’...and honestly, I’ve seen some super weird comments on here, guys.


Personally, I’m a huge skeptic, I don’t look for excuses to give up doing something hard, but if I’m going to do something difficult, and something that I need to do for myself and my relationship, then I need to have some solid facts based in current scientific research to rely on in order to bolster my confidence.


I believe that Patrick Carne’s research and methods are outdated, oversimplified, and based more on culture and outdated moral and religious beliefs that often pathologize non-problematic behaviors, essentially putting the uninformed at risk of neglecting to address deeper issues in their lives outside of PMO (but may be causing compulsive PMO behaviours). I aim to persue therapy in combination with community engagement on this site as a means of getting to a place where I feel I’m in control.


So let me know what you think of this article it’s pretty much a super well-researched summary of everything I’ve learned tonight and by far the best science-based advice I’ve found outside of NoFap. Let me know what you think.


Of course, any words of encouragement are most welcome. Cheers.

I try not to get bogged down once this sort of stuff because I’m like you, i can find many many reasons to not do something unless I see very clear evidence.

It is true that sex addiction isn’t recognized in the DSM IV as a real disease. This isn’t because it’s conclusive that it isn’t. It’s only because there’s not enough evidence that it is. We have to be careful how we read into this, here’s why.

In science there has to be very clear correlation for something to be considered accurate. Therefore if there are variables standing in the way, this just means that the problem does still exist, people are definitely suffering from it, but without clearer evidence, scientists can’t put the “addiction” label on it.

This same thing actually existed with drug and alcohol addiction years ago, and actually a great example of this is the 12 step program recovery.

So even to this day, 12 step programs aren’t considered as definitive proven method to recover from adddiction. This doesn’t mean 12 step doesn’t work. The reason it cannot be recognized as a proven solution is because there are so many variables standing in the way of an accurate test. For example, 12 steps focus on anonymity, so inviting professionals to study someone’s results is kinda not cool .

Another example is the various stages of drug/alcohol abuse someone is in when they enter a 12 step program. A heavy drinker might need less help and can do less work than a full blown alcoholic, so measuring the effectiveness of 12 step programs is hard to gauge because the work vs reward levels vary dramatically.

There are plenty more examples why it’s hard to qualify/quantify that effectiveness of 12 step programs, but this in no way discounts the facts that many many many people who attend them and do the work stay sober.

This is the same with sex addiction. There isn’t enough solid scientific studies to currently label it as an addiction, but this doesn’t discount the millions of people who suffer from it and need help to stop.

What ends up happening In articles talking about medical issues, is, a doctor or scientist expresses their opinion of what they think the inconclusive results means, and this gets quoted. So in the article you share, they quote a doctor saying he doesn’t believe sex addiction exists. His is his interpretation of the inconclusive studies.but a scientist would say, “we can’t conclude there is a correlation between sexual conduct and addiction.” Inconclusive doesn’t mean the same thing as “false”

it dangerous for someone to share their opinion about what the inconclusive results means to them because it’s not accurate and it can plant seeds of doubt in addicts brains.

Here’s the quote from the article that discounts his “unequivocal doubt” that sex addiction isn’t real... “It was rejected by the American Psychological Association for lack of enough research and empirical data.” The key here is “lack of enough research and empirical data.” It’s not that it isn’t real, it’s that not enough studies have been performed and due to the lack of studies, there isn’t enough data collected. For a doctor/scientist to see this sentence and conclude that sex addiction isn’t real, is only an opinion because in the science community lack of testing and lack of evidence doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means more work needs to be done before an answer in either direction can be stated.

And to talk about it as if there’s an answer before all of the data is in is irresponsible as a doctor and a scientist.

 

[MasterRoshi]

I try not to get bogged down once this sort of stuff because I’m like you, i can find many many reasons to not do something unless I see very clear evidence.

It is true that sex addiction isn’t recognized in the DSM IV as a real disease. This isn’t because it’s conclusive that it isn’t. It’s only because there’s not enough evidence that it is. We have to be careful how we read into this, here’s why.

In science there has to be very clear correlation for something to be considered accurate. Therefore if there are variables standing in the way, this just means that the problem does still exist, people are definitely suffering from it, but without clearer evidence, scientists can’t put the “addiction” label on it.

This same thing actually existed with drug and alcohol addiction years ago, and actually a great example of this is the 12 step program recovery.

So even to this day, 12 step programs aren’t considered as definitive proven method to recover from adddiction. This doesn’t mean 12 step doesn’t work. The reason it cannot be recognized as a proven solution is because there are so many variables standing in the way of an accurate test. For example, 12 steps focus on anonymity, so inviting professionals to study someone’s results is kinda not cool .

Another example is the various stages of drug/alcohol abuse someone is in when they enter a 12 step program. A heavy drinker might need less help and can do less work than a full blown alcoholic, so measuring the effectiveness of 12 step programs is hard to gauge because the work vs reward levels vary dramatically.

There are plenty more examples why it’s hard to qualify/quantify that effectiveness of 12 step programs, but this in no way discounts the facts that many many many people who attend them and do the work stay sober.

This is the same with sex addiction. There isn’t enough solid scientific studies to currently label it as an addiction, but this doesn’t discount the millions of people who suffer from it and need help to stop.

What ends up happening In articles talking about medical issues, is, a doctor or scientist expresses their opinion of what they think the inconclusive results means, and this gets quoted. So in the article you share, they quote a doctor saying he doesn’t believe sex addiction exists. His is his interpretation of the inconclusive studies.but a scientist would say, “we can’t conclude there is a correlation between sexual conduct and addiction.” Inconclusive doesn’t mean the same thing as “false”

it dangerous for someone to share their opinion about what the inconclusive results means to them because it’s not accurate and it can plant seeds of doubt in addicts brains.

Here’s the quote from the article that discounts his “unequivocal doubt” that sex addiction isn’t real... “It was rejected by the American Psychological Association for lack of enough research and empirical data.” The key here is “lack of enough research and empirical data.” It’s not that it isn’t real, it’s that not enough studies have been performed and due to the lack of studies, there isn’t enough data collected. For a doctor/scientist to see this sentence and conclude that sex addiction isn’t real, is only an opinion because in the science community lack of testing and lack of evidence doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. It just means more work needs to be done before an answer in either direction can be stated.

And to talk about it as if there’s an answer before all of the data is in is irresponsible as a doctor and a scientist.

Oh I also wanted to mention that even if it isnt classified as an addiction, it still seems to be a problem and at least for me I have no control over it.

This has been proven by 10 years of me trying to stop on my own and failing. 83 days ago is when I started to do things daily that have caused my sexual “addiction” to stop controlling my life.

Addiction or not, the solutions seems to work to stop this sex thing from taking over. I do very specific things daily and weekly, which are very similar to what 12 two groups do (I aslo go to SAA) as well as some extra stuff like exercise and strict diet choices. Also I go to therapy now for depression and anxiety.

I am still depressed and anxious but feeling marginally better, and I still have a lustful mind, but I have done zero PMO in 83 days and that is the longest I’ve ever gone in 22 years.

I can also report that my lustful mind is lessening. I used to see every single women walking by as a sex object to create mental fantasies and stare at them. Now it’s only about 80% of them and of those 80% I am able to look away and not have those fantasies. Almost like imcrecognizing their beauty rather than having the beast inside me be awakened. There’s still a small percentage of women who still male my neck snap and I get the butterflies in my stomach feeling. But it’s way way more controlled than it was before.

My willpower couldn’t have made this change, I had to do some outside work, learn some new skills and practice them daily, in order to start walking the road of recovery from this.

 

[Kenzi]

@AnonymousAnnaXOXO has some videos in her tag line I think you should watch.

 

[Queen_Of_Hearts_13]

Check out my resources thread in my signature it has tons of sources on porn and sex addiction

 

[thorswrath32]

I think sex addiciton and porn addiction are two separate concepts. In order to get real sex you must communicate with another person or at the very least exchange money for services, it takes a bit of time, planning and preperation. Porn on the other hand, especially online porn, lends itself to the novelty experienced by gamblers using a roulette wheel and yet gambling is widely recognised and accepted as an addiction, yet it's not something you injest...it's an experience and a process just like viewing porn is an experience and a process. There is also ritualistic behaviour involved which are hall marks of addiction.

Why did i feel the need view porn for 14 hours whilst high on cocaine and amass a collection ranging from all the letters in the alphabet? why would i spend hours when i was 16 viewing and sorting and collecting like a gambler sitting infront of a one arm bandit oblivious to the world around them except the three wheels spinning and the vain hope of a match, in a sense i perused the porn sites in a similar vain hope, maybe that i would find the perfect image or video or whatever one suited my unpredictable nature at the time.

I can only say this for certain, that my using of porn got progressively worse and so severe to the point where i had to be arrested due to the content i progressed onto, similar to that of a drug addict of which i was one too, started with food (sweets) when i was little, then alcohol in my mid teens and shortly after, cannabis, following from that it was cocaine. The way i see it is i am an obsessive compulsive individual who sought out the wrong outlets, i also realised later on in my life that addiction has run in my family, my uncle on my deceased mothers side was a drug addict and my mother used to have a problem with alcohol but i never saw her drink because she stopped when she gave birth to me.

I believe certain people are vulnerable to certain types of behaviour or substances and that's just the way they are but it doesn't mean they can't learn to enjoy life without those things, i've been sober for over 3 years and i know many others who have kicked some real bad addictions like heroin and gambling and turned their lives around, some have sought out spritual help, others it's been years of psychotherapy or even just a massive wake up call like a tragedy.

When it comes down to it, irrespective of scientific merit, we all must at first put a little bit of faith in whatever route we choose to recover since it's new and unventured territory. I have the upmost respect for Patrick Carnes because he has studied sexual behaviour for over 40 years and i found his book 'in the shadows of the net' very helpful early on but i agree he is not the last word when it comes to this kind of thing and i reckon he would be humble enough to agree.

There is another book called 'The Biology of Desire, why addiction is not a disease' by Marc Lewis who is a Neuroscientist and also a recovering addict so maybe you will find what you are looking for there?

I would also point you to Gary Wilsons book 'Your Brain on Porn' which is also scientificaly researched, both of these books do away with any religious dogma or softy softy emotional language and are more fact and evidence based if numbers, statistics and personal accounts are what you want.