Had a discussion with my wife 2 nights ago about our sex life. It did not go well. She was very defensive and felt attacked. Like I was blaming her for not having sex enough. She told me that she didn't think about sex much and that once a month has always been okay so she doesn't understand why that has to change. She told me she didn't understand why I was quitting porn and masturbation and that it seemed to just make things worse. I felt kindof defeated and slept in another room for the night. I had terrible blue balls and as I mentioned in another post, with my varicocele it makes the arrousal pain quite bad. I masturbated that night so that the pain would go away. Yesterday morning I had my varicoele procedure done. It went very well. Basically no pain and i'm already back to normal. My wife and I talked against yesterday. I made it clear that nobody was bad and that I just wanted to improve our sex life. She said that she just feels unsexy. She has gained some weight and feels bad. So bad that she doesn't like to be touched anymore. I tell her shes gorgeous all the time but I don't think thats enough. I want to work on getting her confidence up while working on nofap for me. My love language is touch. I feel sexy and loved through touch. Her's is actions. She feels loved when someone does stuff for her. This morning I went and got her flowers and told her I loved her. I'll keep working on this until we get back the passionate marriage we once had
Sorry things went that way. I think my wife is similar to yours. One thing I do that works is try and tell her often how nice she looks and rub her shoulders back etc when passing by her in the house. It seems to make her feel loved and more comfortable that I love her the way she is.
Further update: My wife and I had a long conversation earlier in the week. It was a very hard talk. I told her how hard it is for me to go months without ejaculating. And that I'm caught in a trap of either getting denied by her (which hurts both of us), having pity sex where she is clearly not in the mood which gives me ED because it feels weird, or I just masturbate to porn. I told her that what I'm doing feels like cheating but I don't want to force myself on her either. I told her how I've been white knuckling it but I find that my behavior changes and I get more anxious (in addition to painful blue balls). She broke down and told me that what I'm doing does feel like cheating but that she didn't know how to fix it. She couldn't change her sex drive and overall she just doesn't feel sexy. Fastforward to last night: An amazon package came in the mail and she told me not to open it. She also rushed upstairs with some Macy's bags. I didn't think much of it, thought she was wrapping Christmas gifts or something. She calls me upstairs to bring her something. When I got upstairs my jaw dropped. My wife had bought multiple new pieces of lingerie and a cheap digital camera. She told me that she couldn't always predict what her sex drive was and she wanted to give me some material of her to use. I was flabbergasted. We had a little photoshoot, and I was on cloud 9. That night ended with us having the best sex we've had in a long time. I think she felt sexy, I felt desired, and I think we found a porn free way for me to get by when she is not in the mood. I know I may be doing nofap in a different way than most, but I think this way works for me. I'm happy to have had this talk with her and for how things will go in the future.
I'm thinking that's a great way forward for anyone with a sex drive incompatibility like that. I would love to have that same outcome! Involving her in that I think brings that intimacy you want with your wife.
I could see some people calling this fake nofap because I still do plan on masturbating. But I plan to make it an occasional thing not a compulsion. For me it’s always been porn. Porn is the enemy. I feel this way keeps my mind fixated strictly on my wife and takes some stress off of her to keep my taken care of.
Honestly, it seems like it’s a great compromise, but for an addict, it almost always leads back to compulsive pmo( I would say always but there is always exceptions to the rule!). If it works for you, that’s awesome, but from what I’ve seen you get bored of your wife and “ need” novelty or escalated material and now your wife feels even worse because you have her pictures but still choose others.
I genuinely think every addict thinks it will work. Doesn’t hurt to try. I do have a question for you, you say you only have sex once a month( which I agree is very low to me) but in another place you say twice a week. Twice a week is pretty frequent, again, not for me,but on average for most couples. Sex addicts put so much value on sex/pmo they tend to believe they have a much higher libido than they do. This is a consequence of using pmo since childhood as a coping mechanism. It took my husband almost 2 years before he could identify his natural libido and what he thought was sexual desire was really anxiety, depression, stress, happiness. Those emotions were intertwined with pmo so he couldn’t separate hormones/desire from a need to use pmo to cope( if that makes sense?). You really will not know your true libido until you have been clean for quite some time. Everyone’s libido is different, but if you have been pmo’ing since childhood you have been falsely fueling your libido. You won’t know until you stop with the fantasy/porn use. Right now, I have zero libido ( thanks menopause ) I would most definitely have a libido on fire if I started watching porn. Just something to think about.
I get what you are saying after this post. At first it seems as if your thinking there's no hope which I don't agree with. The world is so much more digital that a monogamous sexual relationship with a spouse can be extremely satisfying and healthy I think. I know my sex drive is high and honestly am not interested in my current situation with what I'm getting. And I'm sure that a lot of the pressure I'm putting on it has to do with pmo conditioning etc. I can see that there's a slippery slope between using wives pictures and then after 2 months wanting new ones. Then if my spouse isn't interested in doing that as often as I'd like then resentment sets in and down the rabbit hole you go. I think this is where communication is important. It's hard for me to think that a woman wouldn't want a man that is that into her, maybe I'm wrong. To me this is more an end goal of what I'd love to see my relationship look like once things have normalized. It's just another way to spice things up. So did you always have a bigger sex drive than your husband? Or did you pull away once you found out about his pmo? And did he ever mention wanting more sex during any time when maybe things weren't going well between you?
Up until about a year ago my drive was insane. My husband had never wanted sex more than I. I realized my drive was high. I have never said no to my husband., I tried really hard not to be aggressive or pushy about sex.I was the adventurous one, up for just about anything. He was not. He was the one who always said no. Sex was too intimate for him. After 30 years of marriage sex is by far the best it’s ever been. I hate that I have no desire. No libido. It’s still the best it’s ever been. The problem with pictures or fantasy of your wife, is it’s still a solo activity that feeds your addiction. Really, if you could control it then you wouldn’t be here, right? I wish it were different. I’ve just seen too many fail with this solution, lol. Really, instead of trying to replace pmo, you need to face what drives you to it. Why you “ need” it. If that makes sense? Everyone can live without ever having sex or orgasm. It’s not a need, it’s a drive. You do need intimacy though. You need connection which is what you avoid with addiction.
Where I think we are not on the same page is that cyber intimacy within the relationship is no different than other types of sexual intimacy other than the fact that one person can engage without the others knowledge, that's the only real issue i see with it. For me I'm not trying to replace pmo with images of my wife. It's just what I desire from her. What I'm finding is that pmo is really a single channel of a compulsive disorder that I'm unfolding. (I want to write a post about this) I'm finding many compulsive actions that aren't sexual at all that I'm suffering from. With that said there's nothing wrong with a sexual cyber aspect of a relationship if both parties are communicating and OK with it. I do fully understand that this intimacy should wait until after a reboot period because of the amount of accountability it would take. To hear that it took your husband 2 years does identify to me that it is going to take much longer than I'd like. You don't know my story but this is a huge issue for me. My wife refuses to do things like this yet I've seen videos sent to an ex of hers that are extremely graphic, it sucked to see and really hurt me when i did. Honestly I'm not upset that she did it because it was before we were together. But what does upset me is that she tells me no for lesser graphic things. It makes me feel like I'm not worthy of her intimacy and that someone else was. What hurts the most is that I dont even know how to communicate my feelings about this properly to her. I've tried talking about how I feel about this and she won't listen and shuts me out. This is a pattern of our marriage, i try and communicate my needs and wants and they get shut down and disregarded. I crave having that intimacy where she sends a flirty text or picture during my busy day. It would mean so so much to me to have my wife do what lovinghusband96's wife did! It shows how much she cares about his wants and desires. I'm finding when i feel unheard or misunderstood and forced to repress my desires resentment fills its place. The fact that she did this I think shows how much she loves him and wants to make him happy.
This is exactly how many SO's feel when in a relationship with/married to a PA. Maybe that will change when you are farther into your recovery and she can heal some of her betrayal trauma...when you can begin to rebuild an intimate connection with her. For me, there are a lot of things I would not feel comfortable doing now that I know about my husband's PA.
I don’t think there is anything wrong with sending/making any type of cyber sex video for one another. It would be great if I could do that with my husband. Hell, it would be great to just be able to have sex without worrying about a chaser. We cannot. If you can, awesome. However, only 5% of sex addicts get into long term recovery. Will doing this help or hurt your recovery? That’s the real question. I think you think it will help, but it sounds to me that what you’re really seeking is intimacy from your wife. You want to connect, and know you are enough and she loves you more than her ex. You believe that since she did that for him, she should for you. Maybe she felt coerced into doing it for him? Maybe she deeply regretted doing it for him. Maybe it made her feel used and cheap and she never wants to feel that way again. Maybe every day since she did it she’s lived in fear he would retaliate and post it in public. Maybe she felt young and confident when she made it but that changed. Maybe she just doesn’t trust you with something of that nature. Maybe she doesn’t love you. Idk. There are many reasons she might no longer wish to do things she did in the past. I will never do something like that again. Never. Did I do it in the past? Yes. I wish I hadn’t, knowing what I know now. I have many reasons but if I’m loving or not isn’t one of them. You really need to talk to her. If, however, she is an addict, or IA, or some other mental issue, you will not get anywhere until she first works on herself. Talking won’t help until she’s able to fully be present and empathize with what you are feeling. My husband in 27 years never felt like I really loved him. He started working recovery 4 years ago. He had been trying to quit pmo since he was 20. He finally got help and tools to begin to be successful. And with recovery came the belief that I loved him. Porn/sex addicts have an intimacy disorder. They have trouble with connecting. They have trouble believing someone could love them. Your wife has given you reason to doubt. So now you are searching for proof that she loves you and for whatever reason, you believe her reluctance to do “ this” thing means she doesn’t love you enough. Is she faithful? Is she kind? Is she loyal to you? There are other ways to see that someone loves you. Maybe she’s embarrassed that she did it and embarrassed to tell you. Only she knows why, or maybe she doesn’t know why and therefore can’t verbalize exactly why she won’t. Do you love your wife? Do you love her, not sex, and would you stay loving her if she decided sex was not something she wanted in your relationship? You see, sex is an important part of a marital relationship. With porn addicts, it is the most important part. They don’t understand that intimacy is more important than sex and if the intimacy is there the sex almost always follows. I do know that everything about how my husband views me, himself, and our relationship has drastically changed as he gets further into recovery. How he views and relates to our children has drastically changed. He has changed. How he relates and responds to friends has changed. Get curious about yourself. Why is this the measure of if she loves you enough? There is nothing wrong with wanting your SO to do things for you, everything is wrong with trying to bully,badger, coerce, or guilt them into doing said thing once they say no. It does not mean she doesn’t love you as much as her ex. That is only one possible reason among so many others. Maybe give her the benefit of the doubt since you’re the one she married.
From reading your comments, it seems like you approach a lot of these situations from the angle of the "porn addict is the problem." I think what warfman and I can agree upon is that porn is a problem, but the seeking out of porn is sometimes less a compulsion, than a fallback. I would always rather have sex with my wife than pmo. However, years of unsteadiness in our sex lives lead me to turn to porn instead. When it came to our sex life, I felt like I was the one trying to be more flexible, more understanding, more effortful. I felt like if my wife just gave a little more than we could have a successful sex life. I think warfman feels the same. The reason that my wife putting on this little photoshoot meant so much to me is that she did something sexual for me. Just for me. I haven't had something done just for me (handjob, blowjob, lingerie photoshoot) in a long time. I felt loved that she wanted to do that for me. So you can come out and call him and I addicts, and that this strategy is a failing one, but you have to realize that you could very well be projecting your own situation on other people.
Now that you knew? I do understand why you feel/felt this way. Have you ever thought about his feelings and what led him to doing what he did? For us this was an issue before P was as big of a problem as it is now. I watched p My whole life but not like I had after getting married. My wife and I have been together over a decade and married for 4. She didn't know I used p until 2 years ago, did she ever wonder? No, but she has thought I was cheating on her in many instances so she was never worried about p being the issue. I haven't been allowed to keep female friends from college that I had no interest in intimately. She on the other hand has communicated with anyone she wants. Including at a few certain points ex fiance who she sent the content to. I'm not insecure about him as it may sound. Objectively most people would say I'm the better 'catch'. What upsets me is that issue of hypocracy in our marriage my wife has used to dominate me. I'm a laid back nice guy and allowed it to happen. This reluctance for digital intimacy was an issue from the beginning of my relationship with my wife. I haven't demanded it but when I hint that I'd love a nice picture or try to initiate something like that I'm told no. To find what I found of her less than a year prior to our relationship upsets me. it was hardcore p... all Ive asked for is an intimate photo and haven't asked for anything in particular. The point I really want made is that in this day and age men and their desires are being dismissed. We are treated as disgusting masculine pigs for feeling like we do. Women MUST begin to see this and allow men to have their feelings or what do you expect a man to do? Seems like the solution is repress his feelings and do what the woman wants this may work for a porn reboot but is it really getting down to the deepest parts of the issue? I don't think it is. I think this is also an important thing mother's need to be aware of while raising boys. Allow boys to be boys, The relatively new men's right movement is addressing many of these issues. Thankfully this forum shows that lovinghusband96's wife is making him a priority. And I don't think I need to restate this but I will. It's not something that I think will work with any compulsive issues still lurking in the background. Please also understand I'm using this as a form of therapy. You don't have to agree with me but I'm trying to use this as a way to channel my frustrations and issues in my marriage without resorting to compulsive behavior to hide from them. It most definitely helps. In time I hope to be able to communicate with my wife about them rather than only here Your thoughts are well received as well.
Any addiction will eventually be a problem in a relationship. I would 100% agree with you except for the fact that many addicts have partners who are willing to have sex.I’m not saying the porn addict is the only problem. I’m saying that more sex will not solve a porn addiction. Almost every addict had a problem before they got into a relationship. Every single woman I’ve worked with, every single one in 4 years, all of their husbands had the issue before they married. This problem started long before you got married. Turning to pmo is not the answer. Many addicts have experienced having a partner who is every bit as willing to have sex only to discover it doesn’t keep them from pmo. Does it suck if your partner says no? Absolutely. Can it cause resentment and bitterness? Absolutely. Does it hurt and cause anger? Yup. Does it drive you to pmo? No. You make a choice. You make a choice, to live with the discomfort, to exercise self control and not use pmo. Thats like an alcoholic saying because my wife drinks I have to drink. I can’t stop because she’s drinking. Does it make it harder? I’d say yes. Does it cause them to drink? No. I’ve been in your shoes. My husband told me no to sex every day. My libido was always through the roof. The best year of our marriage before he started recovery was when we were trying to get pregnant. We had sex every day and sometimes twice! It was awesome.But, he still used pmo!sometimes within hours of sex. If having more sex was the answer why in the world do leading csats/sex addiction specialist recommend absolute abstinence from all sexual stimuli for 90 days? Why not recommend more sex? My husband really started healing and getting into recovery once we did hard mode. I was completely against it. Just felt like another punishment to me. It was one of the best things we did for his recovery. My husband really thought that once he got married he would never look at porn or masturbate again. A lot of porn addicts think this. All you can do is be responsible for your choices. I will say this, get into recovery and you will see huge improvements in all aspects of your life. I have pages of ways getting into recovery has changed my husband. He’s a completely different person than when he is using. If I hadn’t seen it with my own eyes, I don’t know if I would believe it. I’m the luckiest woman alive when he isn’t using. 17 years I couldn’t wait to divorce him. Today, I’m blessed by him.
I think I'll address more of my issues with my wife that you're addressing here on my forum so please keep and eye open for that. You of course don't know all the issues we have but you are on the right track with some of what you are saying. There are no doubts my wife has issues she needs to deal with. I also totally understand that I have an altered view of intimacy. Please keep in mind that since this is NoFap's forum it's mostly what I've been focusing on here. While it is true I'm emphasizing this it is not the only issue. The main reason I am here is because I have decided I need a change. My marriage looks like a good one from the outside. Inside we have great moments and others that aren't. If it leads to divorce I want to do that with a clear head of my issues. I don't want to prolong this by not taking personal accountability where I need to. I hope my wife will someday.
I appreciate your convictions in how you communicate here it is helpful. However it comes off as very one sided and not very empathetic of us who are working through things. I understand that you look at it like I would my daughter wanting to touch a hot stove. I know better but she has to learn sometimes the hard way. I truly think and am finding that the most crucial part of this reboot for me is that I'm no longer hiding my feelings or who I am anymore. I think the focus on a nofap 90 day streak is extremely important just like rehab. My experiences definitely support that as after sex during reboot has been hard. For this reason I understand your reasoning for "talking some off the ledge". I think it's time experts start asking why the recovery rates are so low. It's not all just willpower and right vs wrong I think the way we do this is by listening to users here and identifying what causes behavior. Why do men for instance relapse while married? What affect does a poor marriage have on men? What about a single man who has been typically rejected my women? What about the man who is in a sexless marriage working in a coal mine/farm to provide for his family just so that he can get through? Yes there's the dopamine aspect but there's so much more to us men than just that. I think this topic is is often neglected and the focus is more on just not fapping to porn because it's bad. In the end it doesn't resonate very well to someone who's struggling through so much more than just a sexual addiction to pictures on a screen. What do men truly desire? Are men truly bad for accidentally finding porn as a teenager and craving it more than dealing with the ruthless drama of adolescence/high school females and gravitating towards it? Am I being an apologist or an advocate for P or PMO no way! I think I know what I want through all this. I know my sexual desires are altered due to P. But I don't think it's as far off as is suggested much of the time. I'm going to crave this intimacy from my wife and am finally feeling confident enough to know that I'm not a Bad person for what I've done in my life.
I also understand that I need to slow my hyper active sex drive to not smother my wife. I don't want to push her away from wanting to do this for me. But what is said in this post I absolutely agree with. I think the biggest issue is being honest with ourselves. And if it starts leading to porn cravings need to remove it until that goes away.
