P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

And just to throw my 2 cents in regarding other drugs, I was addicted to Ketamine and Cocaine to varying degrees for 4-5 years, and it doesn't come close to comparing to PAWS for me.

The scariest thing about PAWS from porn is it related to our sexual function, scary shit in terms of our future normal lifes, dating, finding a partner, having a normal sex life

It genuinely looks like a 18 month to recovery from initial PAWS and upto 3-5 years to be fully recovered so sex and normality is no longer a concern

 

Im aware theres many people who have had heart palpitations when abstaining. I was more or less referring to getting them WHEN doing physical labor, ive done some research into this and apparently this isnt normal at all even for extremley anxious people, before or after? Normal. But during exercise is apparently quite strange.

 

Couldn't you agree though that the fact this is all based around sexual function is likely to promote and cause a unreasonable ammount of hysteria and ruminating.

 

So, i guess the fact that i quit something i had been doing my whole life and then two weeks after my whole life went down the shitter, and then i accuse that said thing for being the cause of all these problems and that is unreasonable? One thing i do agree with you on is most people probably don't have it this bad, if i had to take a guess 80 - 90% of the people on these forums wont experience the symptoms i have, but its all tied down to use. I was beyond addicted sometimes edging on rare occasions into the night with no sleep for 5 - 7 hours!!!! I was a complete low life scumbag, and still am. But i was hoping things after this point would start looking up, and everything has just been going down. Many people may just be able to destress and then theres problems are solved and for those people i agree it would put them into unnecessary hysteria, but im not one of them, heres just a short list of my symptoms (Not even the full list)
- Odd flashes of light out of the corner of my eye (Especially at night)
- Ringing in ears
- Pressure on ears like i'm underwater
- Palpitations when doing physical exercise like curling a dumbbell for example (And not that heavy either)
- Speedy fast heart rate when doing things that arent even that tough like walking up a couple short flights of stairs
- Shortness of breath
- Occasional strong feelings of anxiety
- Insomnia
- Eye floaters
- Sharp pains throughout my body (Arms, Chest, Shoulders)
- Blurry vision (Sometimes)
- Burning skin (Sometimes)
- Palpitations when eating (I've noticed this only happens if my heart rate is slight elevated above normal)
- Restless legs
- Sudden jerking of some body parts
- Dizziness
People can keep telling themselves this is some harmless habit if they want, but dont say you weren't warned.

 

You are not unique with them symptoms. There’s a few of us who have had all of them...

 

And what's crazy is, nobody talks about that on youtube (As I've said above, the first 18 months I was consuming nofap content every day like a mothafucker) and nowhere there did I see a single video about lingering PAWS symptoms, most of these guys were just showing the bright side of nofap (3 months on nofap - BENEFITS; 2 months, 4 months, 6 months, 1 year nofap benefits) I would have to search a lot to find one or two people taking about withdrawal symptoms (the thing is, they weren't even mentioning flatlines, let alone withdrawal or PAWS!)
this drove me nuts for months because everywhere I looked those dudes were reporting superhuman benefits after 30 days it was insane, I thought Something really fucked up was happening to me and I panicked for months thinking I was the unlucky one to experience all that shit
.
Of course I would see one or another talking about FLATLINE symptoms after starting their reboots, Hayden rose did a video on his 5 months streak where he was facing a flatline, Noah church also mentioned something about it but within 5 months the flatline was gone and Gabe deem did an interview and he was the only one that came close to a more severe flatline bordering PAWS, but he was THE ONLY ONE and I was past 9 months and still suffering those symptoms, so again I found myself alone in this boat, am I the only one on planet earth suffering from this shit?
And then, I started surfing the forums, the nofap subreddit and finally I've seen dozens of other stories similar to mine, it was a big relief to know that I wasn't an alien going through hell alone and that all of this were just severe flatline AKA post acute withdrawal symptoms

 

The thing is guys, Most people on youtube won't talk about those longer PAWS (18 plus months) maybe because that's a really dark thing to talk about and youtube, like instagram, is where people overemphasise the positive aspects of their life while purposefully hiding the negatives
I can personally say that these forums have been a life-saver for me, I don't think I would've been able to get this far without this community's aid, it helped me keeping me sane and balanced when everything in my world seemed to be falling apart

 

Hello guys,

I’ve been following this thread for some time now and I find it very helpful as I can relate to most of your posts.

I am 39 now, have been PMO-ing for some 20+ years, although my usage was not as extreme as some of you here share - I almost never edged and my binges were not as severe as many of the stories I have read here. My major addiction was alcohol, it nearly took my life away, but I am clean now for 9+ years, I am also close to 7 years clean from smoking/cigarettes/nicotine. For some brief or longer spells I have also been addicted to gambling, people and toxic relationships, computer games, work, etc., so I have some experience with withdrawals and PAWS.

I started my efforts on NoFap some 2.5 years ago after a short period of PIED. Actually PIED was cured rather fast after I limited porn use and went on my first several streaks of around 10 days (that is how much I could last in the very beginning). Gradually my streaks increased somewhat in duration, but so did PAWS. 2019 was very good for me in terms on NoFap, but an extreme nightmare in terms of withdrawal and anxiety. I O-ed maybe just around 40 times during the year (more than half of it would be sex, wet dreams, or just a release in a semi-asleep state without even touching or rubbing myself). Maybe this is not such a great achievement, but I would assume I O-ed some 400-600 times during each of my 20+ years of active PMO, so still it is significant improvement for me.

Worst thing was in the summer when I ended up in ER for a week with arrhythmia and a heartbeat of over 140 that lasted almost 48 hours. I have had PAWS related palpitations and other unpleasant symptoms before, but never thought things can get so serious. All my post-hospital examinations were good + I don’t drink, I don’t smoke, I eat healthy, I walk some 8-10 km every day for years, I have very low levels of stress at work or with family.

Worst withdrawal symptoms I get (apart from heart palpitations) are panic attacks, trouble falling asleep and not sleeping well, extreme fatigue, brain fog, inability to concentrate, and anxiety. I cannot stand still for a long time and going to restaurants, stadiums, public places makes me feel very uncomfortable, sometimes I have trouble swallowing my food and drinks at public places, or I get a very typical coughing tic as if I have some fur or hairs down my throat. However, I push myself to go outside, to socialize and to go to these public places, because I know that staying at home will only make things worse.

One thing that seems to be different from most people is that I have almost never experienced flatline or low libido. Apart from some days when anxiety and panic are off the roof, I have extremely high libido and just walking down the streets I would love to have sex with many women I randomly see in public (I don’t act out or fantasize, just feel attracted to them). After some 10+ days of monk mode sexual arousal and anxiety pile up so much that I would fuck a watermelon just to get a release. Just in the end of 2019 I had my longest streak of around 40 days in monk mode and most of my streaks end with me just lying in bed in semi-asleep mode and releasing after just 1-2 minutes of sexual thoughts without even touching myself. I am not even fantasizing or thinking of porn, I just recall some past sexual experiences I have, so it is almost a semiconscious wet dream.

With all the other addictions I had PAWS subsided or went away completely after some 2-3 weeks of abstaining. With PMO this only happens to the P part – when I don’t watch porn for a couple of weeks (in the past 2 years I have cut it off by some 95% of my previous use), it is rather easy for me not get back to it. However, with MO things seem to go right in the opposite direction. Urges get stronger and stronger, symptoms get worse, for the good part of the last year I felt like a handicapped person, can barely work and function normally.

Therefore, I am beginning to think I might be doing something wrong, because this is something new in terms of withdrawal for me and I was able to abstain from all other addictions without going through such long periods of extreme PAWS. Also, reading your posts it seems people with 200+ days of monk mode still go through this hell. There must be something wrong with this.

I am thinking about trying to set my goals to just staying P-free for a while to see how things go. I have no doubts that porn is absolutely detrimental for the brain and the nervous system. However, I am not so sure about the evidence for quitting also MO altogether. I read all that stuff about semen retention, dopamine/reward circuits, but still there is quite a lot of reasonable controversy if masturbation is healthy or not. Maybe I am just trying to rationalize my desire to MO, but I am not quite sure yet. It seems that monk mode is just pushing my nervous system to extremes that are unhealthy – I never had any of these acute symptoms prior to quitting MO, or at least not for such prolonged periods of time. Also, in my relationships with girls I would have sex some 5-10 times a week and all this is considered normal, but I guess 5-10 MOs per week would be considered abnormal. My biggest concern about setting my goal to just P is that I believe it is very likely that MO will get addictive and out of control, and sooner rather than later bring me back to P. Therefore, the only reasonable solution to this fucked up state seems to me to go on with life as much as I can, try to build a healthy relationship with a woman, and have "normal" sexual life.

Sorry for my long post, I am not trying to offend anyone or deny the benefits of monk mode that many of you are experiencing. I am just very confused about all this and cannot seem to find the motivation to go 2-3 years without MO, because I don’t think the benefits of this can outweigh the hell that abstaining from MO brings about for me.

Thanks for all your posts, stay strong on your goals, whatever they may be.

 

One MAJOR question I have is.. rewiring. How much have those suffering from the most severe symptoms attempted rewiring? I am right now experiencing almost all of these most severe symptoms but I will say that right before this recent slip I felt nearly cured for the first time in my life. The best times I’ve experienced when rebooting have been after any type of rewiring, try to spend some time with women and just chill with them, attempt to get a girl out on a date and just make out or cuddle with her. I thought I was still in a deep flatline several times and when I wound up in a situation where a girl touched my dick it went straight up harder than I ever knew it could. The girl I’m talking about was about a “3” and I had zero attraction to her. This was at the end of my longest streak and my libido went away for 2-3 days after oing but came back quicker than I thought and I felt pretty good. I thought it would be longer. I also got a blowjob that I ended before oing a week before that and that seemed to have some benefits. These past 2 weeks I’ve gotten 4 massages and all have left me feeling better for a few hrs before symptoms return. During those massages I can feel some lame ass attempt at my dick being active from time to time and have even gotten 2 weird not normal post relapse erections from them in the past 2 weeks. A month ago I first heard of cuddling services and thought that was the most shameful thing to pay for but after this recent slip I have contacted one and am considering partaking. I can feel oxytocin flowing through me after paid massages and although not ideal, there is no pressure to perform or justified anxiety in going to one. I believe some of these symptoms can be alleviated if only temporarily by real human touch from a woman. Oxytocin just might be the answer we all need and I say if it helps, fuck it pay for it.

 

Something doesn't add up here, it's impossible to have "an extremely high libido" while at the same time experience extreme fatigue, this would be impossible, when your libido is high your sexual energy is through the roof, you can work out for 3 hours, run a marathon for 2 hours, play sports all day long etc etc..
high energy=no fatigue

 

Actually this is what I really feel - my energy is down, I get tired very quickly, and I feel sleepy most of the day, but still I have a very high sexual drive for women. Maybe it is a bit awkward, or maybe my brain is not balanced and still experiencing various lows and highs - lows when it comes to daily routines and highs when it comes to sexual stimuli.

 

maybe something to do with diet or nutrient deficit, have you tried supplements? Vitamin d3, zinc, magnesium, omega 3, iodine, try some maca powder

 

Never claimed that i was. The only one that i said i dont see on the forums a lot is palpitations when doing physical labor, i already knew that the rest were reported around the forums quite a bit....

 

That's one of the reasons it took me all this time with the reboot. I never took it serious and kept relapsing years after years. I thought all it'll take is 60 days or 90 days then I'm cured. Past 90 days, I started asking myself " what the hell is going on?" I dissociated myself from YouTube nofap videos from now on. Before taking nofap paws serious, I used to read some symptoms from other rebooters and I thought they were being paranoid till I went through them the further I abstained.

 

This sounds so very familiar to me. In fact I am more prone to relapsing (and was more prone to sexual neediness in my relationship with my ex) when tired. The more fatigue, the more risk to relapse. Especially after the first few weeks of abstaining, during the stages where I go from acute withdrawal into PAWS healing..

 

Hi,

I've mentioned this elsewhere - possibly on earlier pages of this thread, or in others. Heart problems have been a problem for me for about 15 years. I'm convinced in my case that palpitations etc are PMO related.

To give you a funny story: I had chest pains walking up the stairs one day at work (top floor office at the time), and my boss rushed me to A&E. It felt like someone was standing on my chest. I stayed over night, no problems found. I went back for a checkup a few weeks later, and sitting in the waiting room a seriously hot girl (possibly nurse / doctor?) walked past, and I got really turned on (I have a definate type, and she was it). Then I went in to get hooked up to an ECG machine, and the doctors kept telling me to relax, because the electrical activity in my heart was all over the place. I told them I was calm (I did feel calm by this point), and so they made a referral to another hospital for more in depth checks. At my third hosptial visit they put me through more thorough tests (no hot women this time) and diagnosed a left branch bundle block (I think I've got that right), which means that sometimes the muscles in the left side of my heart contract a little slower than those in the right - due to poor electrical function. They said it's nothing serioous, but to back off from physical activity if I start getting chest pain again - basically mild angina, which is pretty alarming when you are in your 30's. My take on this is that post PMO, the skeletal muscles throughout my whole body ache like crazy, and this is due to a system wide lack of something - neuro-transmitters, minerals, not sure, but what affects skeletal muscle will affect cardiac muscle.

This was 10 years ago. Until last year, I could predict how good my physical energy, stamina, and indeed palpitations would be, according to when I last PMO'd, and how long it took. I consistently recovered over the course of 10-20 days. For me, cardiac problems come and go with all the other symptoms that others here have mentioned (I'll reply to the list that @LokerKoeler wrote above in a moment with this in mind). However, in 2019 I seem to have entered in to a PAWS type situation where weeks of no PMO aren't enough to make any change.

Anyway, I think cardiac symptoms are a real thing for us. There is anecdotal evidence that men keel over and die during / after vigorous sex (I knew one guy where I wouldn't be surprised if too much sex and porn use caused his fatal heart attack at 45). I don't want to add to anyone's burden of anxiety, so will say that I think that if you do have a problem, you'll see it / feel it coming well before it happens. Palpitations, at least if they only happen for a few seconds or minutes, shouldn't indicate something too severe, but they are a warning to back down. Anything worse and I would get it checked out by a doctor, regardless of your age.

 

I have all these things and more, except:

- Palpitations when eating (I've noticed this only happens if my heart rate is slight elevated above normal)

For me, it is fatigue that is the worst though - been off work with it for 6 months now, and am in imminent danger of loosing my job. Feel like absolute crap all day every day, and tire out to the point of collapse after small jobs like washing the dishes, on my worst days. If I hadn't had these symptoms regularly in the past (with MUCH shorter duration), and always after PMO, I wouldn't have made the connection. However, I think I've past some kind of physiological threshold where my body doesn't seem to be able to recover like it could. I think I just pushed my luck for too many years, never quite managing to find the resolve to quit PMO completely, and now it's caught up with me.

Incidentally, there does seem to be a lot of overlap between PAWS and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, which is what I've been diagnosed with.

 

I thought I had adrenal fatigue
turns out it was a PMO symptom, just quit porn and you'll be good
I suffered from this shit from 2015 till 2017

 

Thanks for your feedback.

After my spell at the hospital I passed all kinds of heart examinations and tests - several ECG, echocardiography, holter monitor, blood tests etc.
Fortunately all tests came out good and I don't have any malfunctions or issues that require any special treatment or medications.

So it seems that all comes from the head, I try not to pay attention to the anxiety and panic, but sometimes it is difficult to ignore them. I also acknowledge that to some extent I have also become hypochondriac and take too much time looking and waiting for specific symptoms to appear which only brings about more anxiety, panic and discomfort.

However, I would have to say that all this is gradually getting better and better - the last 2 months are more easy than the previous 2, which in turn were better than August/September when I was virtually falling apart, was totally incapable to work, sleep or function and it was a complete hell.

Still, my condition is far from stable and all these symptoms (PAWS or other) are quite annoying and interfering with my daily well-being. That is why I am curious if long term monk mode has worked for anyone and after some time all these symptoms go away completely?

With alcohol/nicotine addiction I don't have any withdrawal symptoms anymore, they completely disappeared after some period of abstaining. With PMO though it all seems to go in the other direction. On 2 days of no MO (P is out of the equation anyway) i feel much better and energized than on 40 days no MO when I felt that I was virtually going mad all the time. I am not sure it is even all PAWS, or mostly tension and stress building up after long periods of no release.

 

I just wanted to make sure of some things based off everyone’s experience here.

Do you guys think that Ming without looking at any screens (P) and just to your imagination is bad for recovery?

I’m 12 days without P and 4 days without MO now. I’m completely done with porn forever I hope and decided that maybe Ming once a week or once every two weeks would allow me to not fall back to P.

The thing is I’m afraid that Ming even without any P will slow down or even stop my recovery completely. If that’s the case then I feel like wet dreams would be just as bad.

Right now my symptoms include facial tension because of anxiety, social awkwardness, low libido, brain fog, etc.

Erections are decent without P but low libido is really worrying me.

Anyways, do you guys think it would be best to cut off M completely as well? I feel like it’ll save me from relapsing to P but I just want to hear some opinions.

Thanks