P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

How is it damaging? All I'm providing is an alternative view why were like this. My conclusions are my own subjective experience like a few others have came to realise on here. I'm not saying we should relapse to porn. It's still disgusting and absolutelt terrible for anxiety and also perverts sexual taste and so on.

What you're saying is dangerous as you're being close minded and not discussing with an open mind. Stop whining its embarrassing.

Instead of attacking me we should be discussing all possible theories and getting as many people on board who can attest their own personal experiences and conclusions.

Like I said previously if you read it properly is take it with a pinch of salt. I'm just an experiment in this as much as you all.

Were all here because porn played a downfall.

 

Maybe I'm misreading your posts @Big Lebowski but they read as though you don't think PAWS exists or is real, and that porn doesn't contribute to any negative side effects.

You write; 'I dont think any of us have PAWS to porn'

And also state; 'I'm honestly not feeling any different since all my relapses at all (not to start off a chain reaction) but I believe it's not as bad as I once thought with the withdrawal theory'

Your posts are implicitly implying that PAWS isn't real and masturbation or relapses therefore aren't real or a concern as there is nothing to relapse from.

Can you see how dangerous this advice is?

I do agree with open honest communication. I'm not trying to vilify you, I just disagree with your reasoning and how your painting things. Quite clearly you had PAWS from porn, with a whole other range of contributing factors and issues you need to address to. But since NoFap didn't fully cure all your symptoms - which it couldn't because as stated you had multiple casual factors, you now deduce somehow that porn didn't contribute at all. It just doesn't make sense.

 

If you're anything like me and many others how do you differentiate between these symptoms to PAWS? I'm saying that maybe porn ramps up our anxiety so much to such an unnatural level.

 

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/generalised-anxiety-disorder/symptoms/

 

No I'm not saying the paws is not real that would be outrageous to benzo, opiate and alcoholics and to even some on here who claim they have PAWS. All I'm saying is it may be something else. I have relapsed since october 2nd of last year over 20 times even binged once or twice. And the symtpoms have not returned. Two years ago one relapse or even glimpsing adult content would have returned with unbearable anxiety.

Surely I would of gone through acute all over again?

 

I do not disagree, in fact I think you are right here.

BUT

Same can be said about benzo withdrawal. Anxiety, GAD, nervous system weakness, PAWS.... It's all just labels.

I think there is virtually no one on here that disagrees with the fact that mental and psychosomatic symptoms can only come from two things:
- Painful experiences from the past
- Biochemical imbalance due to environmental factors (drugs, meds, PAWS, stress burn-out, caffeïne, fastfood, insomnia, etc.)

To heal from these things takes TIME and EFFORT. Doesn't matter how we call it.

@Big Lebowski I remember you are not someone who indulged many hours a day into edging? Some people on here have been edging for 3-6 hours a day, for multiple years. Or even worked in the porn industry themselves.

Let's respect our individual differences about how we've come to the conclusions we need to work on ourselves. Everyone is here to work on his/her self. Almost all people describe symptoms related to dopamine-/endorphin-resistance. The way this manifests in us is different, the way we can heal ourselves is almost always the same: change environment and behaviour while sorting out pain from the past.

I'd like to invite everyone on here, for the sake of respect and also common sense, to use more of a "first principles thinking" approach.

 

Now this is a common sense post. You're absolutely correct they're just labels. Were all here because we have suffered one way or another with unbearable symptoms through porn use. Which on its own I do absolutely believe can destroy you.

3 times a day, each day 15 min sessions to my favourite scene fucked me over massively. I had symptoms the same as saneagain we messaged over 100 times going back and forth about it, real shame he ain't about to discuss it.

 

I have to chime in here. I suffered from a massive high dose benzo and pregabalin cold turkey acute and post acute withdrawal. Neurological and psychological symptoms so severe, people can't fathom how it's like untill they been through it themselves. I also healed from that and ofcourse had the same symptoms that GAD sufferers have. Thats because benzo and pregabalin withdrawal causes massive anxiety and causes all the symptoms that come with GAD. But I can with 100% certainty say that it was PAWS from benzos, pregabalin and also porn for me. Because GAD is mostly chronic and my symptoms like anxiety and all accompanied psychological and physical symptoms caused by anxiety disappeared after long term abstinence from the drugs or porn.

The weird thing is that after I relapsed on and binged to massive of high doses of benzos again 2 years later after the PAWS I been through, I never had any symptoms of benzo withdrawal return again. While other people can't even handle one alcoholic beverage years after they been through benzo PAWS. Brains are very complex and inconsistent and everybody reacts different to different stimuli. I appreciate your update on how things are working out for you at this very moment. I however would never claim it were not the benzos that caused it tho. It was pretty damn obvious the benzos, pregabalin and porn caused acute and post acute withdrawal symptoms for me.

 

Your case sounds very severe. I hope you get relief from it one way or another mate. I think we can all agree it is a overwhelming experience and takes such a toll on you.

 

Thanks mate. I apologize for sounding so cocky, condescending and arrogant to some people like you and @whysolong in some of my posts. I will be taking a break from nofap forums now. Take care buddy and don't fall back into the porn trap again. It brings us nowhere.

 

Likewise mate. I'd also like to sincerely apologise to anyone here who has took me as arrogant or found any of my posts damaging that was not my intention at all.

And a big fuck you to porn all leading us here and obscuring our lives.

Yea you've the right idea mate. God speed in your recovery mate and to everyone else here!

 

PAWS are real and total pain in the ass. I think the problem with this forum is that people who recover from PAWS simply leave or become inactive. I have messaged at least 10-15 people on this forum after seeing their thread or post that they have finally recovered after 12 or 18 or 24 months etc and got replies from none. Many accounts are deleted. But from reading their content available on their accounts, it's 100% clear that they went through severe PAWS well over a year and recovered ultimately. There are many people on reddit as well who recovered from PAWS after 1-2 years. Sadly, some of the people recovering here write posts which only demotivates and discourages a person already going through a difficult phase. Such posts only make people relapse or lose hope in the process which ultimately screws them over even more and they join the same group of people here writing weird crap. This process requires patience and perseverance which does not come to everyone so easily.

Leaving porn doesn't only mean that you stop watching that particular content on screen. It means that you stop thinking about porn, stop imagining it, stop playing those scenes in your mind. Besides this, you need to control what you watch on tv, social media, youtube etc. This whole detox process from porn isn't an easy thing and if you are not able to successfully complete that, don't demotivate others. I also see people here writing that I am on this journey for x amount of years when their journey is full of relapses, binges and what not. Dude, this is not your journey, this is just a continuation of your addiction. Add those years in your addiction account and not on "the journey" account. The journey time only counts when you are porn free without any relapse AT ALL, alongside eliminating any other addictions that you have. By this, I don't mean only substance addiction. This includes, internet addiction, social media addiction, screen addiction etc.

I have never had any substance addiction in my life and I have never felt so crap ever in my life after I started this nofap journey. I am actually going through a much better time in my life as compared to what I have been through before but still I have never ever felt this much crappy, not even close. I do see the light at the end of tunnel in my 10th month now. If you can't see that for yourself for whatever reason, don't let the light close out on others please.

 

Juggling? Keeps you physically active, focuses the mind a little like meditation, costs virtually nothing and no-one else's involvement is needed.

 

It took me a long time to figure that out for myself, but it is a hard truth to come to terms with - not just stopping porn itself, but the mentality and thoughts that go with it.

BUT I would say that if someone's journey is full of relapses and binges, as mine has, that's still a journey that counts. If you go from PMO'ing multiple times a day to several times a month and see some improvement in your health and well-being, that's an improvement that's worth having, and is hopefully a step on the road to a full recovery. That road can be so long that what may look like failure in the short term, but as long as you continue to push and improve, then that's perfectly valid IMHO.

 

My basic conclusion about PAWS.

Porn messes with your brain chemistry. This has been proven. It basically screws with our reward system. If overindudged over a long period it can then produce multiple psychological and psomatic issues, particularly Anhedonia, anxiety etc. They have all been listed before so I won't repeat.

If you abstain for aong period then these symptoms begin to fade.

However, each of us likely also have unresolved psychological issues which were being masked by our drug of choice. As we abstain we have to face and experience these issues, which again are a variety of uncomfortable symptoms. We might also have to give up a variety of other things that we were using as a crux to feel better.

You could conclude that these later symptoms are not however directly caused by Porn. However, and this is the crucial part, if you go back to porn you are almost certainly masking your problems again and are also again screwing with your reward system.

Where PAWS ends and dealing with our psychological issues begin / end / intermingle is impossible to calculate but regardless of length of time taken you have to give up porn completely. If you want to heal you cannot keep going back to it.

 

355 days nofap hardmode it’s in my signature

 

Unfortunately I have relapsed after being over 3 months free of pmo and binged for 2 days due to the chaser effect, I feel disappointed in my self and I will reboot again and I will address what I did wrong. But I don't have any of the severe symptoms I had when I first started the reboot which is a huge blessing. So I still stand by the theory that pmo ramps up stress, anxiety and depression and that creates a whole list of symptoms.

 

What do you consider of binging in term of pmo?

 

Good question. It isn't in the Nofap glossary. Personally I see it as more than a one-off relapse - like binge eating where you really go for it in the worst sense, for an extended period. But for how long? 30 minutes? 1 hour? 2 hours+ ?

 

Simply put multiple masturbation sessions in a day.
I'd binge 3 times a day to PMO. I think my record when I was raging full of hormones at 16 was 8 or 9 times in a day ejaculating (not proud of it). But you get the point.

The orgasm is what I really chased porn was just the necessary evil really. From a different perspective I would say I'm an orgasm addict. Ejaculation I can only assume is like an opiate type feeling, instant bliss followed by a numb sensation after a binge.