Marriage issues while trying to reboot

Thanks for the response Warfman. I can well understand why you'd want to avoid a confrontation over the chest given the fallout from the steps debate. I wish I had some advice to give on the matter but I don't. Perhaps others are right adn counselling is a good option.

 

Thanks man,

Yea I think most of the reasonable advice has been offered on this. And it all makes sense, you are 100 percent on point about the dynamics being hard to change in a relationship once established.

With most things I think that all this advice is worthwhile. It also needs addressed with a counselor present I think. Someone to help facilitate healthy communication on both sides.

I don't have to move the chest, even though I'd like to. It's just so frustrating to always feel bulldozed. The main reason I even write all this stuff out is just to not keep it bottled up inside me. I don't want to allow things like this to get the better of me anymore. I think really what I'm needing is just encouragement, through the frustration to rid myself of PMO addiction. I'd love to solve my marriage issues too but that's not why I'm here.

Again thanks for taking so much time and showing interest to understand an me. That's really what I need the most. Addiction can't be beaten alone.

 

Since my 90 day hard mode reboot that I started in May. I've expressed interest to my wife in experimenting with Karezza. She hasn't really shown much interest in anything like that. I know things like this I deeply desire and my wife struggles with the whole Idea. Deep eye contact, syncronizing breathing, stuff like that she really struggles with. She's so insanely beautiful but does struggle with body image. I don't think she feels comfortable in those situations, even though I still see her as starry eyed as I did when we were teens.

I've told her often that I need more physical touch. I've talked about giving her massages without any reciprocating from her before on this thread. The way I've been vocalizing that to my wife is probably a lot different than I used to. I know I had to have had an "agenda" in the past, I know I would get mad when getting repeatedly rejected. For the most part, since my wife got pregnant I've completely taken the pressure off the situation. What I have tried to do is repeatedly express my need and desire for physical touch even when intercourse is not possible. I'm trying to make that acceptable as well, by saying I simply need an appreciative gesture and hug after a long hard day at work, this stuff means the world to me. So far this hasn't really caused her to change much. But a few times she's actually acknowledged in a kind way that she understands what I'm saying.

I'm hoping that by continually expressing this need in a calm matter of fact way, I can keep that line of communication open, where we both feel like we can express our needs calmly to each other and they will in turn be heard. I do see that since May, this has improved a little bit overall, we still have bad moments, but it's better.

A small incident happened this morning that is not typical at all. I fell asleep in my daughter's room when she was going to sleep and so I didn't get to our bed until 430 this morning. My wife was sleeping and snuggling with baby. So I just reached out and put my arm around my wife's torso, after 10 mins or so my wife woke up and moved my arm. Normally she gets mad and yells at me for "waking her up" in those situations ,but she didn't this time. I started to massage her arm and back, and she reciprocated by doing the same for me. It was really nice, I love that stuff, and it feels so good when my wife gave me some of that affection that I have been saying I have needed for a year. I'd be lying if I didn't say I really wanted to make a "move". But I refrained, she's not physically ready and I know that. She's just so dang gorgeous, it's hard for me not to want that. What made this morning so wonderful is it was during the morning when my wife is the most irritable, it felt good that my touch was accepted by her in that moment. I felt accepted, and that's what I need most.

I sent my wife a text saying I really enjoyed this morning. She responded with a big heart emoji. So it was a good morning. I need to calibrate myself, because I know I'm going to want this again soon, and I know my wife won't always be in a mood to accept it. Patience, I need to remind myself, Patience.

 

Love reading this buddy!! It’s so nice when you have these small steps of progress. Happy for you buddy!

 

I think you're on the way to building the intimacy agajn. But I do know women who can sense that you're wanting something from them, even if you're not asking for anything in return. They can feel the overall big picture, they're more in tune with emotions than us. There was a time that I did not have intimacy with my current partner for 2 years. It was a very bad time. And the recovery was long and arduous too. Really long. I think patience is definitely one thing, and really sitting down to think what does my wife want from her perspective. What can I do to give her what she wants and show her dedication. Women's minds work in unusual ways, but I know that being really engaged in the conversation helps a lot. Putting in the brain power to think of well thought replies. I just try to think back to when we were dating and the amount of effort I would put in to be funny or interesting. How I would use all the body language signals and everything to show interest. I try to remember some of that so I can continue doing it again now. Physical intimacy needs momentum, which is tricky to build up and lots of seemingly unrelated things contribute to the build up. For me I think the biggest thing that'll work now is to achieve success in the business. Occasionally I think like...how much effort do I need to put in to win your respect and love. But I realise that she is putting her life into our relationship too. Nothing much else better to put in extra effort for.

 

I have an observation I thought I'd share. We have been up at my wife's grandmother's for Thanksgiving. My wife cannot stand giving affection in the presence of people. I'm not one to really do so either. But I do like when we are around the corner in another room giving a hug and a kiss etc. Yesterday I gave my wife a hug and a kiss like this, it's her default to pull back because there are lots of people in the house.

This is so common that I just get upset over and over normally. Sticking with my goal of calmly stating my needs and stuff like that. I just made a comment to her, "I hope you appreciate my affection, not everyone likes giving affection, and I know how much you'd miss it if I was like that". She looked into my eyes and says "I know, you are right". She smiled and gave me a big smooch. Love that stuff! The eye contact in general like that isn't something she is good at. It felt like genuine connection, there's no doubt in my mind that my way of saying how I feel is slowly changing to a way that is better received by her. Feels like progress.

 

So happy for you and your wife to have this moment.

 

Love this bud!!!!!

 

Hold on to these moments especially when times get rough - there is so much meaning in them.

 

Thanks @hope4healing,

If you don't mind I'd like to express some things directed towards your comment that are mostly just some things on my mind. But form it in a way that everyone will be able to follow as well.

First, I'm focusing on the positive here in the post you responded to. There have been a couple issues as well this week similar to others I've been venting about. I'm trying to do my best to just not dwell on it, and also acknowledge the positive things as well.

I talk about John Delony a lot but I just can't express how much I like that guy. He's a major dork, but, he really is a good resource. Some of his advice may be a little cookie cutter because of the nature of the show but there's a lot of good stuff he offers.

Something he talks about often when people call in with relationship issues is that "We think in pictures and talk in words".

Both partners have a clear picture of things, for instance how raising kids will go, what kind of car they drive, romance, we have expectations for all sorts of things and in our minds it's very clear. Yet we express these things in words that are up for interpretation, and are often expressed poorly (if at all). This is I think a hurdle every couple deals with whether they realize it or not, some may not struggle with it as much as others, there are also some who are naturally good at working through things.

My wife and I really struggle to communicate, and I've noticed this the entirety of our relationship. I know I haven't been very clear with her on that my picture looked like. I've talked about how she stonewalls and shifts blame onto me constantly, how she's controlling, I've also talked about my temper, and my addictions affects on my affect. I feel I have to tip toe around how I say things because if she feels at all accused or pressured she pushes me away. This is a struggle, I can say something trying to express my "picture" not intending to trigger her at all, and it will. We've talked about shame and addiction in the same light privately, and that is really no different than what I'm saying. It makes communication quite difficult to have words misunderstood, it derails the entire conversation. Our conversations get derailed by both sides the majority of the time.

The obvious solution to me is acknowledging that communication is a skill that is learned. If the relationship struggles with that, there are going to be growing pains while the couple practices and develops that skill. Too often what happens is we try to communicate, and then something sets things off in a different direction, and then we both revert right back to the resentment and other issues that have plague us for years.

John suggests an exercise that I think makes a lot of sense. If there is an issue, write it on a note card and sit down on the same side of the table and face the problem as a couple instead of the problem being between the couple. My wife is really good at making things me vs her, maybe I do this too... I like the point of approaching things in an "us vs the problem" way. It takes both individuals being willing to work on that though to even start. I've suggested it, before and hopefully we can start working on that.

It seems we are in that hard growing phase, and I feel that I am still the only one pushing for it currently, which is definitely frustrating and hard.

I haven't done a lot of reading on what to do about the resentment I hold. But a lot of the resentment I deal with is that my "picture or whatever you want to call it" I feel get trounced on and aren't heard much of the time. My wife I think if I could get her to say it probably feels exactly the same.

My wife and I had a relatively deep conversation on our way home last night that was sparked by a John Delony clip she shared with me this weekend. It was really good, and I talked about this thinking in pictures/expressing in words situation. I talked about my picture, what I imagined marriage would look like, how we would coexist together, work together, run towards one another instead of push away. I explained that my picture was that in moments that are hard, our intimate connection would be a primary foundational pillar. I did pry some, wanting her to talk about her picture, it took some persistence on my part, but she did express some things. There's a lot of work to do in this area and I sure see that much clearer than I did a year ago.

 

Yes, I meant to acknowledge this but realize I didn't thank you for pointing this out.

She's said a lot of hurtful things about my process, things like how it's sad that I need NoFap to deal with things, she's said it's silly to go through the past thinking that will magically fix things. One time she said to me something that really hurt me that I'll keep to myself, about my research into psychology. I've never thought that going through past trauma will fix anything but I also know it's holding me back. So I feel it must be done.

You are right this is awesome, she started following Dr. John on social media a while ago. I talk about what I hear on his show all the time. Just share interesting things he says with her. At first I think she was very irritated be it, but she is coming around, she also bought his conversation cards he sells, and we've used them this summer during dinner. Until a certain topic turned into a contentious one, we haven't looked at the cards since.

This is a good thing. It shows she's listening, his advice is really really good.

 

It sounds to me like she's consciously trying. Not half-hearted, but seriously trying to connect with you and improve your relationship. It also sounds like she is completely blind to her own issues with conflict and communication. It seems pretty clear that she thinks that she is the one who tries harder in the relationship, which to me also points to her actually trying, but being blinded by her past, your past together, lack of perspective, etc. I know I've said it before, but I really think you could both benefit from counseling; I think an outside perspective might fix a lot of this. I know just getting her to go would be a challenge, but I think it would be a challenge worth taking on (in a loving, non conniving or confrontational way of course). Maybe you could strike a bargain with her, like no dirty diapers for a month if she goes. Or do something for or with her that's important to her and she's wanted for a while. Some way to make it a positive thing for her outside of the counseling itself.

 

Yea I think she is trying, I don't know that she really thinks she's trying "harder" more just thinks the issues aren't a problem at all if that makes sense. That might not fully make sense without going through a bunch of stuff from the past, but that's my assessment from the situation.

I definitely agree on the counseling suggestion. It's definitely something we need to pursue.

Some really good news too I need to share. I bought a bunch of used books on eBay that I'm planning on reading most are ones people have suggested here before. I showed them to my wife and asked her if any interested her, she instantly picked up The 5 Love Languages and has been reading it while breastfeeding and sparked a conversation about it last night. This is really good news to share because my wife has never shown interest in something like this before. Heres the list of books I bought if anyone is interested;

"Unwanted" by Jay Stringer

"Families Where Grace is in Place" by Jeff VanVonderen

"The Seven Principles for Making Marriage Work" by John Gottman

"Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" by Lindsay C. Gibson

These next two I've listened to some of the audiobooks on but decided to get to read.

"The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman

"Wild at Heart" by John Eldredge

Another I plan to order is "Building a Non-Anxious Life" by John Delony. This is his new book.

One more I might get that Dr. John has suggested before is "Come as You Are" by Emily Nagoski. But I think there's a lot of progress needed before that book really should be read, since it's about a woman's sexuality. I don't want my wife to think that I'm getting this book with an agenda. So I'll wait on that one.

 

This is such a win man, the books. You can really see what's on her mind too based on her book choice. I think she's trying too. This is good...I may steal your idea right here... It's a smooth move I think my wife will find that nice too.

 

Do it! Most of those books were about 4 bucks a piece used on eBay. I was worried about quality but they are mostly in like new condition.

I have a little more time during winter to read so I'm hoping I can get through these this year. With the little one it might be a tall order.

 

I know this post is old, but I can relate to every single thing you said. Hope you are doing great now. Still need to read your posts, but I applaud you for digging deep into your problem

 

If you relate to that check out the book "No More Mr Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. Most of that post is my reflections from listening to the audiobook. The full audiobook is free on YouTube, it has been really helpful for me.

 

I will check it out. I have been reading your thread and I can resonate with a lot of things that are said here. But the keywords for me are: Nice Guy Syndrome, having toxic shame, avoiding conflicts, being shut down easily, validation seeker, and PMO addict.