An Unpopular Opinion.

I have lived in London, and go to France multiple times per year. There are large ethnic, and Muslim, populations in both. As there have been for decades. I don't see anything wrong with that. If you're thinking that Sharia Law, or whatever, is taking over, that simply isn't true. Both places have had issues with terrorism, which is terrible, and requires real thinking about solutions, but doesn't justify standing against Muslims or cultures in a general way. I'm an Irish Catholic. Barely 2 decades ago, the IRA were committing terrorist acts in Britain in the name of my culture. They were a small minority, and to think that I or my family would have been unwelcome in Britain because of that would have been horrible. Yes, if entire societies began enforcing horrible things in our country it would be correct to actively oppose This, but that's not the case.

Aside: In fact, London as a city is great in my opinion because it is multicultural. I never felt like an immigrant or outsider in London. Sort of everybody was.

I'm slightly puzzled. At one point you say that all you really want is tolerance of your beliefs, but then you talk of standing up to other ideologies.

I agree societies and religions that practice intolerance and violence are unacceptable to me. But that is different than what I perceive as a discomfort with migration, etc lessening one's status as the dominant culture in your society. It is a fact for most people that they will feel more comfortable around people who are from where they're from, who believe what they do, etc. This is fine. But one has to know that this does not make intolerance of other cultures acceptable. The world is getting smaller, and it is a fact of life in big cities, etc, especially on richer countries, that you will have large diverse populations. You may not prefer this, but to actively oppose it is to say that a fluke of birth (that you were born into a wealthy, tolerant society or that your religion is, in your opinion, better) grants you some sort of ownership of privilege

 

I sometimes get the impression if you're a fapstronaut you should be conservative.

 

What is this Judeo-Christian principle anyway?

Deuteronomy 22:23-24:
If within the city a man comes upon a maiden who is betrothed, and has relations with her, you shall bring them both out of the gate of the city and there stone them to death: the girl because she did not cry out for help though she was in the city, and the man because he violated his neighbors wife.

So stoning rape victims is a Judeo-Christian principle?

 

This hits too close to home for me. My state has the most Muslim immigrants in the U.S. and way too many progressives. I have no issue with people coming here as long as they follow the laws, contribute to society in a positive way, and assimilate to the culture. The problem is that many of them don't assimilate. They want their own culture to dominate ours or at least change it. Progressives then say that it's "Islamophobic" if I don't accept it or if I mention that something needs to be done about ISIS recruiting immigrants in my state. My issue is not with Muslims it's with people who wants to change my culture to suit themselves better and the people who will let it happen in the name of "tolerance". All of this coming from an atheist libertarian.

 

So what is the Judeo-Christian principle? Forgiving people? If you're forgiving surely you'll be welcoming of immigrants and those with different beliefs. I think this whole Judeo-Christian principle thing is rather silly. To me it seems like another Western 'Christian' invention, I mean after all you'll never see the word 'Judeo-Christian principle' mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

 

Im from Sweden and we got some major immigrant issues over here, 90% of the people that come to our country pretend to be people that are feeling from war, they are mostly men Arabic and Muslim, these people rape our women, kill Christians and Jews openly on the streets, if you wear a cross or they know your either Jewish or Christian they will kill you if you wonder into the wrong part of town, this is a fact media always darken this down cause of our media in Sweden is overly left wing and it is fucked up. 80% of all rapes and violent crimes in Sweden today are form Immigrants, and they only add up to about 16% of our population so 16% of our population stands for 80% of all the rapes and murders, and other violent crimes.

Now Im not saying I believe that people who call themselves Muslims are all bad, but the ones that come to our country sure are, these are people that we as tax payers pay for so they have shelter food and money of course, If you go to any where in Sweden and check you will see mostly men Arabic, wearing expensive clothes, always the newest cellphones, always being loud calling us Svenne jävlar, which means Swedish bastards pretty much. Something that happens often is when they come to our country and they see where they are going to live, some don't even get out of the buss they sit and wait in protest cause they don't like what we give them, If these where people that just ran from a war and they had nothing but their clothes on their backs they would be grateful, but they are not.

But There are people who come to our country that actually deserve to be here, and they are grateful for what they receive, and I seen a lot of Muslims convert to Christianity when they come to Sweden. Our country has been infested and we are fighting back though, going to take our country back.

Know many people share this unpopular opinion, I still believe in good people no matter of what their beliefs are, but the evidence I seen over the years has me wondering where all this insanity is coming from, I have still not seen any prof that Islam is a religion of peace.

I would much rather live in a country with all atheist then with the people that have infested mine.

Edit: Also like to add Im not trying to offend anyone, this is how a perceive the world around me, if I wanted to insult people it would be clear, these are my opinions.

 

Yes, that happens a lot unfortunately.

I'm wondering what you are basing this on though? This in particular seems a bit exaggerated to me.

There is a lot of antisemitism and there is a big threat against Jews here in Sweden, but I'm not aware of any murder case in recent times. Please link to a news article if that has happened and I've missed it.

Of course it is horrible that the threat is there, but it seems from what you're writing that there has been a lot of murder cases against Jews and Christians. And as far as I know, that isn't really the case.

There are a lot of real problems in Sweden to point to, I don't think it's a good idea to exaggerate though. There is no need for that as I see it.

But all in all, I absolutely agree that we now have massive problems here in Sweden that we need to deal with.

 

Here are my own thoughts.

Every country has a right to decide who they let IN, and I believe it should be done responsibly. Here, we were easily taking in 60,000+ immigrants per year, which is almost 1.5% of the total population. Among them, we've had heaps of migrants (such as upper-class Chinese people) buying property, dairies and businesses, and while they're typically peace-loving people, they make an already rough housing situation (caused by many other factors) even worse.

This leads me to think: we may just think too much on the side of the migrants. When do we also take into the account the comforts, lifestyles and best wishes of the citizens? Most citizens have nowhere else to go but to the places they already live. Many don't have dual citizenship. Many find their lands, society and culture appealing and want to preserve it. That also needs to be accounted for, and a nice middle ground should be formed.

As I mentioned, I personally consider 1.5% immigration rates to be an unhealthy amount of growth for any country with visible (and perhaps even unseen) issues. We have plenty of issues here as it is already, and I’m sure Europe has its own problems also. We should aim more for a 0.25-0.5% of the population per year in ALL immigration. I’m unsure how close to that Europe is, but last I knew, the USA’s around this area. This rate's low enough to promote healthy integration into society and low enough for the natives to not face huge detrimental issues, while still being high enough to support population growth, innovation, humanitarianism and competition.

Europe and the Western World should also get to the source of the problem rather than dealing with the effects. I truly doubt these migrants want to leave a culture they're comfortable with (most of them, anyway) and land they and their ancestors lived on, but they lack the opportunities for success and prosperity. Much of this can be due to tinpot dictators, but in many places, government policies don't promote a free-market economy. Here, in the economics, the West could aid, MOST preferably without military action.

 

These two paragraphs contradict each other.

 

I agree we should not exaggerate cause it will only make the gap between us and them larger but I did not exaggerate, I did not make any claims on how often they kill Jewish and Christian people, I just said they do to confirm statement that has been claimed before in this thread, it might not happen as often now days (I hope) cause people learned where not to go. But it does happen, what i wrote after that will answer your question about articles, media darken down a lot. I would claim though that more Jewish people are targets though.

Also remember, if some one is killed they cant tell people they where killed cause they where Jewish or Christian so they will just add up as a murder or a robbery most of the time.

How so please explain.

 

Most of the Swedish mainstream media is horribly insincere about the effects of immigration. That is very true.

But if there really were regularly occurring, religiously motivated murders, I think that Svenska Dagbladet, or at least Fria Tider, would have picked up on that.

 

I think we also have to be careful about falling into the “MUSLIMS ARE TERRORISTS!” trap also. I sincerely doubt there are 1.8 billion “terrorists” on this world (otherwise, that’d suck ). I despise how Islamic nations interpret Sharia and I consider their interpretations to be against the morals of the western, liberal democratic world, but those interpretations certainly don’t represent every follower of Islam.

 

Tricky topic, but I think you've done a pretty good job of addressing it.

When thinking about these issues, it's always worth considering those "divide and conquer" elitists lol

 

Why is it fair to expect assimilation? America has a long history of different cultures. Italian-American communities, Jewish communities, Hispanic comnunities, black communities, Irish communities (back in the day), etc. These have always been somewhat distinct from one another and, by and large, that doesn't seem to be a problem. So why should Muslims assimilate? Is it that they are 'too different'? What degree of assimilation are we talking about here?

And I don't think, for the most part, they are looking for their culture to 'dominate'. I think it's more that, given the high amount of freedom that living in the West provides, they choose to remain in their culture. This is basically fine, from my perspective. Yes, their culture feels alien to me, but so what? I feel I would be implicily putting myself above Muslim immigrants to suggest that it isn't ok for there to be alien cultures I find it difficult to engage with in my country.

 

I may not have been detailed enough. They can certainly be proud of things like their heritage, have their own communities, and celebrate traditions. From what I've encountered it's as if they don't want to be Muslim Americans, but instead they would like to be Muslims. I know a guy who came here from Poland and a few who came here from Mexico. They have certain traditions or celebrate certain holidays, which they have every right to, but they recognize themselves as U.S. citizens/residents, which is less common among the Muslim immigrants of my state. It's like there's a them vs us frame. While I wish it wasn't that way it's how things are for now.

 

You say the Muslims are bad in one paragraph then you say they are good in the next one.