Claims of Pseudoscience?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ewartie, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. ewartie

    ewartie Fapstronaut

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    I joined NoFap 2 years ago and with the greatest of intentions did absolutely nothing. I decided to make a change in my life and I am now on day 4 of the challenge and finding the boredom and horniness tough already (especially considering my sports gear fetish makes temptation very easy).

    While browsing articles not written by the community I have found almost total condemnation of NoFap and it’s benefits as pseudoscience and examples of the dunning Kruger effect.

    Some issues they take is the “outdated and simplistic” view on dopamine and the non-anecdotal data suggesting any positive benefit is a placebo

    Even the introductory video linked on the subreddit contains a disclaimer from TED: “this video contains several assertions not supported by academically respected sources in medicine and psychology”

    Quora, Wikipedia, WebMD and some medical blogs all take this view and it is really demoralising me.

    Can anyone explain the disconnect between the articles stating the scientific benefit and the people stating otherwise? Are there any medical professionals on here who disagree with the critics?

    Thanks guys
     
  2. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    One of the benefits of getting older is you come to understand that there will always be some one who refutes someone else. When I was growing up, the majority of the scientific community said we were going to freeze over in the next 20 years. Cigarettes were considered healthy and a great prescription for nerves. The atom could not be split-irrefutable. So many different things that I can’t even recall now. I, for one, don’t care at all what the “ experts” say. They say Ed is not caused by pmo, and yet my husband had Ed for 5 freaking solid years until we discovered that porn was an addiction. Took 4-6 months, but he has not had Ed since in a year and half. His finger nails were deformed, have been since I’ve known him ( 18 yrs old). So bad that he went to multiple dr to try and fix them, he was so embarrass he would hide his hands. Now a year and a half later they are almost perfect. Not sure how a placebo would do that. He has more hair. A lot more on his chest. His voice is so much deeper that my parents made a comment and they have no idea. He no longer comes home and has to take a nap ( Which was quite the norm the last 5 years). His dick is bigger, softer to touch and a better color. His face and skin and eyes look so much better, I pulled out a picture of him when he was really deep in his addiction and he just looks sick. I told my sister at the time he just looked awful but I didn’t know why. Especially since that time in his life he was working out regularly and watching what he ate. So, believe what you want. I have the evidence in the massive changes in my husband. The only thing he changed? Quit pmo. Goes to counseling. Plus, omg he’s so much more handsome. At 52, I’d say he’s the best looking he’s ever been in his life. He looks at least 10 years younger now.
     
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  3. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    This is hard for me and probably others to avoid confirmation bias, so I'll try.

    Yeah unfortunately there is A LOT of pseudoscience is the NoFap community unfortunately and a lot of reliance of anecdotal evidence/benefits. A lot of talk about dopamine while in the right spirit, is probably unsupported and simplistic. But if people say reducing screen time to reduce dopamine is good, they are at least right in the fact about reducing screen time is good (sry for strawman).

    General medical consensus is that masturbation is healthy. People including me I think avoid masturbation because it makes it harder to quit the addiction but I am pretty new here so I haven't explored the science behind that.

    But I don't think that science is against NoFap. Doing research you find that there is science and studies on porn and porn addiction that generally align with NoFap. WHO has compulsive sexual behavior as mental health disorder, which can include porn addiction.

    Also, about your concerns:
    I looked at the wikipedia article on NoFap. It was comically biased IMO, just look at the sources used. WebMD has an article on porn addiction, and does state the complications of porn use (cant post links im new)
    Don't worry about dunning Kruger as it applies to any misinformation.


    TLDR: From my limited research so far it appears there is no general medical consensus surrounding nofap but there is some science supporting parts of it and some against parts of it. I still think it is worth it tho. Addiction can be anything. So if you can't quit/take control you are better off quitting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  4. A. Skywalker

    A. Skywalker Fapstronaut

    Did you at least ask someone for help? A psychologist, a psychotherapist...

    If you really want to get out of this "addiction" I suggest you to follow a therapy provided by an expert; if you have problems, personal considerations and even a success stories during your "rebooting" you can share them here on NoFap: there are sections made just for this.

    However, remaining on the subject of scientific truthfulness about NoFap: yes, there's a lot of pseudoscience and advices circulating in this community that are not only wrong, but even dangerous for new users, especially those who are still teenagers (such as, for example, that masturbating is something wrong and psychologically harmful); despite this I wouldn't recommend you to leave the community, but to make your own culture: study for example how the dopamine-energy reward mechanism works, how erection works, which parts of the brain come into play during sexual arousal. ... these are just examples, but they will help you to understand when you are faced with useful advice and when you are faced with b******t.
     
  5. thinking_differently

    thinking_differently Fapstronaut

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    Do you know what Conditioned Reflexes are?
    I personally Feel that PMO addiction has become a Conditioned Reflex. The ‘Triggers’ will set the blood pumping downwards, and as you sit down to search for stuff, memories are revised in the brain(to decide what you search) and the Amygdyla takes over, relating to feelings of Pleasure down there, and you are ‘Turned on’.
    It’s not just Dopamine, there’s Adrenaline(ofc!), Oxytocin(intrinsically related to reproduction), Serotonin(pleasure).
     
  6. StarRider

    StarRider Fapstronaut

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    However "rebooting" itself is pseudo-science bunk concept, which doesn't work. While you recommend medical professionals, who can't treat the disorder, because it has been removed from their diagnostic manuals, the guy who made up that "rebooting" and "rewiring" quack you subscribe to, doesn't have any credentials in psychiatry, psychotherapy or neuro-physiology.

    However masturbation is indeed harmful and this has been known since centuries. And the only people trying to justify it are those addicted to masturbation, which is the core of the issue.
     
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  7. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    Who is this quack you are talking about?

    General medical consensus is that masturbation is healthy. If you mean not in the context of those with porn addictions then I agree.
    Just because something has been known for centuries doesn't mean it is right.

    I kinda think this is bait???
     
  8. StarRider

    StarRider Fapstronaut

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    It's the quack about "rebooting" and "rewiring" from "porn addiction" the whole community spins around, while they are just sex addicts doing compulsive masturbation.

    When you hear the term "consensus" together with a statement, then you can tell from that alone, that someone tries to tell you a lie. Scientific evidence speaks for itself, it doesn't need a "consensus". The scientific method can be applied a single person proving everyone else wrong (again) - and this is exactly how it happens and happened in the past. Science is not a democratic process and never was. But I don't expect highschool students to be able to understand this.
     
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  9. oryxcrstl

    oryxcrstl Fapstronaut

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    Thats not what scientific consensus is. The term just suggests general agreement between scientists/conclusions from studies and evidence (not necesarily 100% agreement tho).

    I still think you are baiting me?
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  10. StarRider

    StarRider Fapstronaut

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    The use of the term "scientific consensus" is typical for highschool student, who still believes everything in his textbooks as being correct.

    You are just too young and inexperienced to have this discussion. Your absolute inability to fact-check stuff you found on the Internet shows this.
     
  11. A. Skywalker

    A. Skywalker Fapstronaut

    Yes, I know: I put the word rebooting in inverted commas for just that, ad I did for the word addiction.
    But you're right: maybe I wasn't very clear and I should have put it into words.
    Ok, I suppose you've also sought help from an expert, in which case I'm sorry it didn't work out with you.
    In my case it was quite effective: I don't deny that I had some relapses, but overall the outcome was quite positive. However, from what I knew, it is not that the treatment has been removed from the manuals: there is no treatment at all, because not only do not yet exist universal and specific criteria to define porn addiction, but some studies also question whether porn really causes an addiction. My psychoteraphist used group therapy and some techinques typycal of obsessive-compulsive therapy, and they work pretty well.
    You're talking about Alexander Rhodes, right? Or Gabe Deem? Gary Wilson? Sorry I don't understand who are you mentioning...
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
  12. StarRider

    StarRider Fapstronaut

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    Medical professionals are supposed to stick to their diagnostic manuals. So if they accept "sex addiction" as existent instead of treating "anxiety", "depression" and other disorders possibly caused by compulsive masturbation, they kinda violate code (and don't get paid by health insurance).

    I question that too, because I see masturbation-induced sex addiction as the fundamental cause. It just goes very well with porn, as porn is sex on a screen and masturbation is sex in front of a screen.

    Obviously they do. Professionals know how to treat addiction. But you can't just go to anyone and expect proper treatment for something which according to "scientific consensus" doesn't even exist.

    I don't blame him. As far as I know another guy called Gary Wilson invented all this to sell his books and half a decade ago I fell for it too.
     
  13. ewartie

    ewartie Fapstronaut

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    No I haven't taken that step, I'm not blaming anyone btw its completely my own willpower at fault. The years have flew by, its extremely scary. I'm so afraid that before I know it i'll be 30 and will have missed a lot of opportunities.

    That's kinda what I was wondering, it makes sense on paper that too much of a good thing is bad and when you have so much anecdotal evidence at what point does that become a study, If it was such junk science that doesn't work why is it being pushed here so much?
    Out of interest has any of this worked for you?
     
  14. Psalm27:1my light

    Psalm27:1my light Fapstronaut

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    What do you mean by “ worked”? Yes, rebooting helped my husband. We were completely against it in the beginning in spite of our csats recommendation. About 4 months into my husbands recovery work he was really struggling to stay clean. He asked me if we could abstain. It sucked. We made it 52 days, had sex then 50 days. My husband said it really helped. If nothing else it teaches you self control, which all addicts are lacking in this area.
     
  15. Candun

    Candun Fapstronaut

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    The problem is "NoFap" can mean different things depending on how you choose to interpret it. You could choose to focus on SR, P addiction, M addiction, O addiction, etc. You could also choose to focus on the most outlandish claims like "O drains your testosterone" and make a statement like "NoFap is fake" based on that. Just make sure whenever you read about it you know what approach they are taking/why and don't fall for bullshit propaganda.
     
  16. thikk

    thikk Fapstronaut

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    I agree with @Candun, you have to be clear what people are denouncing within nofap. There are claims I have seen in the community that I thought were not true too. Especially regarding effects of nofap etc. However, I think nofap cures the porn addiction and related ed. And I don't think this should be an issue at all for someone who has realised that they are struggling with pmo. The answer should be to simply stop it, no explanations needed.
     

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