Effects of Semen Retention Poll

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by RyanRVA, Sep 3, 2015.

Does frequent ejaculation degrade your vitality and health regardless of it's context?

  1. Yes

    110 vote(s)
    70.1%
  2. No

    14 vote(s)
    8.9%
  3. Twice a week is best

    5 vote(s)
    3.2%
  4. Once a week is best

    6 vote(s)
    3.8%
  5. Once a month is best

    11 vote(s)
    7.0%
  6. As long as it's sex with a woman there's no limit

    32 vote(s)
    20.4%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    My comment probably won't be so popular, but here goes.

    This is a question that needs to be answered in terms of real science, not pseudo science. Some of the commentary here relies on what I would call philosophical or religious texts. I have no objection to either; I am a practicing Catholic, my religious beliefs are central to my motives in being here, as is true for others. But if you ask me about the physical or health effects of either sexual behaviors or sexual abstinence, I would consider a citation from Scripture, or Saint Thomas Aquinas, to be an odd choice as scientific evidence.

    Now, I am not a scientist, I doubt any of us are, but like all of us, I have the ability to think critically, working from what I do know.

    The body is a highly complex system that, if healthy, is quite resilient. So it seems to me that while decisions about having sex, or masturbating, or even having involuntary emissions, can have effects on mood and on conscience, I find it dubious to make claims that these things have profound physical effects. In any case, the burden of proof must be on those who make such claims, and these claims should be viewed with close scrutiny, not accepted credulously.

    Here's the thing: how do you isolate the effect on body from effect on mood and conscience? If I am in a down mood, after, say, having sex or ejaculating after fapping, my body is likely to be affected, for many reasons. But that doesn't mean there was a physical effect due to loss of semen.

    The body knows what is doing. At various points, the body will expel semen on its own. As noted above, it makes sense we can indirectly affect this. However, you young guys may not realize this, but there can come a point, either because of age or other reasons, when your body stops having involuntary emissions. I've been 144 days with no O. I've had a number of erotic dreams, but no emissions, alas. A younger me would have. It happens.

    My bottom line on this question is this. I think there can be beneficial effects from abstinence, but mainly psychological/emotional, and I think it has more to do with whether we are having a "bad" sexual experience v. a "good" one, with "good" and "bad" bound up with some combination of our values, as well as what is more emotionally satisfying, and more "connecting." Some of this is morals; some of this really could be science - for example, the way our sexuality has evolved (or been designed) to foster bonding in relationship to child bearing and child rearing.

    So I do not believe there is any great value in semen retention, per se. I'm doing it for two reasons: as part of a needed "reset" after years of unhealthy consumption of porn, and because I believe it would be immoral to "spill my seed" outside marriage. If I were married, I'd be delighted NOT to retain my seed, in good conscience. Is the abstinent me really better off, physically and emotionally, than I would be married and copulating, solely because I am retaining my semen? I have no way of knowing, but those claim retaining semen, all other things being equal, does make me better off, have the burden of proving it. And without pseudoscience.

    Look: when advocates of abstaining from masturbation and porn make extravagant claims, it brings discredit to our message. Let's not make claims that aren't reasonable.
     
  2. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    P.S. I want to correct something I just said, without editing it. I was not meaning to say that when we have sex, or give ourselves an orgasm, that can't affect us physically. Of course it can. I wore myself out with masturbation, as many here did. The point I was trying to make was to deny that these activities are intrinsically physically debilitating. I think masturbation is immoral and I can see a case being made that it's unhealthy psychologically. But I think it would be hard to say that the physical effects of masturbation -- apart from the effects in the brain -- are meaningful if not compulsive. Someone who faps several times a week may be sinning, and may be doing some harm to the "wiring" in the brain, but I'm skeptical that the rest of his body will suffer.
     
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  3. hopefullynotfappin

    hopefullynotfappin Fapstronaut

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    ***TRIGGER WARNING; MAKES ARGUMENTS OF BIOLOGICAL ADVANTAGES TO MASTURBATION***

    Science doesn't lie, but obviously if you're still trying to quit P, chances are you won't be able to masturbate without at least thinking things you shouldn't. Just felt this video was relevant.

     
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2015
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  4. DisciplineYourMind

    DisciplineYourMind Fapstronaut

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    I find it interesting that many people think that "inside a woman" is any different. Despite what people might think, biologically your brain doesn't know. Psychologically, sure, the effect is different. But if you look at it purely from a biological, physical perspective, your body will react in the same way to semen levels regardless of how it got rid of them.
     
  5. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    I follow your point, I think, but...there's something missing here.

    If you know you're not "inside a woman," then your brain knows. Right?

    My point is not merely semantic; but rather, that your knowing the circumstances of your own orgasm may well shape whatever happens in the brain, the release of hormones, etc. I listened to a talk recently in which the speaker said one of the chemicals released either at, or after, orgasm, affects ones sense of satiation; and he made the claim that the experience of intercourse triggered a higher degree of chemical "satiation" -- or satisfaction -- than solitary satisfaction.

    Now, I don't know whether that's true, but it's not hard to see how it might well be true: the interpersonal sex act is significantly different from the solitary one; all manner of things are happening in coitus that don't happen in masturbation. There easily might be more stress or anxiety on the front end, followed by greater emotional release as a result.

    So I guess what I'm saying is that the psychological event affects the biological event; you can't separate them.

    Or, am I misunderstanding your point?
     
  6. DisciplineYourMind

    DisciplineYourMind Fapstronaut

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    Sure, but that has nothing to do with semen levels. The OP is talking about the actual semen levels in the body, and one of the pole options (that has garnered some votes) is that the effect of semen levels changes depending on how they were lowered.

    My point is that, sure, the effect of orgasm might change depending on circumstance, but biologically, the body wouldn't react any differently with semen levels, since semen is produced differently to the way that hormones are.
     
  7. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    Discipline your Mind:

    Ah, gotcha.
     
  8. rampageingapes

    rampageingapes Fapstronaut

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    A lot of sites say that masturbation is normal and has no real effect on your health, long-term or otherwise. Other sites say that frequent masturbation can increase the risk of prostate cancer when you're young, but decrease it when you're older. Either way, I think masturbation is probably one of the least likely things to kill you. Obviously it is more beneficial to find other, more productive, forms of stress relief though.
     
  9. DisciplineYourMind

    DisciplineYourMind Fapstronaut

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    I think we're leaving the realm of purely biological arguments for semen retention, and turning it into something spiritual.
    Now, I'm religious myself so have nothing against that - but if you want to debate the effects of a particular body fluid, I'm not sure supernatural arguments are really appropriate.

    To be honest, some of the traditional arguments for semen retention that originated in other cultures were most likely before they understood what testosterone was. We now know that the reasons for many of the benefits of going without PMO are actually because of heightened testosterone levels rather than simply semen levels.
     
    Septimus likes this.
  10. Septimus

    Septimus Fapstronaut

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    Nine more "likes" for what "DisciplineYourMind" just posted, above.
     
  11. Zinc

    Zinc Fapstronaut

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    I believe semen retention does more than just increase testosterone, it stabilizes many other hormones like dopamine and serotonin.
     
    Amukadi8 and docker like this.
  12. Ray Breslin

    Ray Breslin Guest

    Okay, i feel it necessary to share my experience here.

    I was 13 when i started masturbating. I did not get into porn until i was 17 and after i was done with school . Maybe once every few months i'd watch a movie sex scene or see a partially clothed actress' photo. I masturbated because everyone was doing it, it felt good and there was this myth among guys that it helped you grow taller. I did it once everyday to 2-3 times a day from the time i was 13 till i was 16 years and 3 months old, when something changed. During all this time, i had started applying myself and was academically edging towards the top of my class. Then one day, in November everything just changed.

    I just wasn't as smart as i used to be. I was unable to concentrate or focus at all, my impressive memory started failing me repeatedly and i felt tired all the time.
    I thought it was perhaps lack of motivation so i tried to motivate myself. I realized that wasn't the case so i started working harder but now 3 hours of study gave me an output of half an hour of studying. I tried some multivitamins, they too did not work. I tried exercising to little effect. It took me a long time to realize that this was a consequence of me masturbating too much. I thought it too, to be silly but when i looked up on the internet i found many others suffering with the same stuff as me. I first got to yourbrainrebalanced.com where i found support and realized i must clean up my act. There too a couple of people, often newbies were sceptical. By this time i had fallen in the academically below average in my class and an year later, i lost my opportunity of getting into my dream college.

    If masturbation has no physical side effects.So tell me why did a 16 year old guy, at the prime of his youth as many would say, who had never smoked, consumed alcohol/weed/drugs, did not watch porn , woke up one day and had lost his vitality and spark?

    Science is an ever evolving domain. Just sometime ago what Einstein said was creepy and impossible was proved to be entirely possible (How particles effected each other regardless of distance).

    If you have seen the movie "The Kings speech" when King George V went to a new speech therapist for his stammer and was having a smoke, the therapist asks him to snuff out the cigarette. The king replies that his present therapist has said that "Smoking would help relax his throat muscles" to which his new therapist replies "I have a belief that sucking smoke into your lungs can do you no good". This implies that at that time the side effects of smoking were unknown and it was considered acceptable, who knows, even encouraged? We all know what it does now.

    This could apply to masturbation too. Just because science hasn't got to its negatives yet, doesn't mean it isn't going to one day, especially with thousands of guys surfacing who are suffering from overdoing it.

    Think of this logically. Everything in life has a cost. Why wouldn't semen have a cost too? Its stupid to think that you can just fap,fap,fap without any limits or consequence .Masturbation has an upper limit. There is a limit to how many times you can fap without all hell breaking loose. Yes, the brain wiring thing is pretty real but so are the physical effects.

    I mostly don't try to convince any one that fapping is harmful, even without and before porn. This thread focused exclusively on the topic so i decided to share my experience.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2015
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  13. IGY

    IGY Guest

    What a powerful and well argued post. It's power lies in your personal story, which you articulate so well. Additionally, I find what you posit plausible and compelling about the harm masturbation can do to and the likelihood that this will be demonstrated, in time, via science.

    I never saw porn in my teens and I also masturbated at least twice daily from the age of 13. It had a marked effect on me and my academic performance. I got moderate results from my high school exams at 16, but they did not reflect my early promise. Yet, like you, I worked hard. I can identify so much with what you experienced in your own case Ray - "3 hours of study gave me an output of half an hour of studying." Exactly, my brain was not firing as it should. :(

    The question you pose in bold with enlarged font is a good one and applied to me equally when I was a teenager. I never smoked or consumed alcohol; weed; drugs; or watched porn. But I believe my brain was altered because of a chronic masturbation habit. I am happy to endorse your testimony with my own. Thank you for having the balls to speak up!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 15, 2015
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  14. Congrelous

    Congrelous Fapstronaut

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    http://www.nytimes.com/1992/12/03/u...-sperm-is-found-to-shorten-a-male-s-life.html

    I don't think anyone wants to do the studies because they're afraid it will return us to the anti-sex victorian ages with Kellog's anti-masturbation aids and all that hysteria.

    Many scientists don't like facts that disconfirm their paradigm they've invested in. A true scientist doesn't take sides.
     
  15. mudasir

    mudasir Fapstronaut

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  16. Mr. Sir

    Mr. Sir Fapstronaut

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    Ok, I'm going to come at this sideways and articulate what a lot of guys probably want to say but can't put into words. My experience is a shared experience.

    In both male and female physiology testosterone is an important hormone, especially for energy and cognitive function. Now, in my research I have found that a variety of things have short term (meaning minutes or hours) testosterone boosting effects. Lifting weights, assuming expansive positions, good sleep, post-sex refractory period, and winning. The general sense of winning has amazing effects on the body and mind. When your team wins or your politician gets elected, your testosterone and dopamine levels rise. Climbing social hierarchies is another form of winning. This is why we see politicians who have manic behavior - because they have an addiction to winning. We see movie stars and rock stars who have inhuman work capacities, as well as CEO's/Company executives. A lot of these people have 60-80 hour works weeks and they just keep going and going because the hormone response to winning is addictive. In social dynamics we call this "macro momentum".

    There is another form of macro momentum that young men are supposed to feel. This occurs as a response to female sexual energy. Positive female feedback causes men to naturally assume physical positions that allow for higher testosterone production. Thought patterns change and reward complexes adjust. Every time a woman you want to have sex with has sex with you, it's like you're winning.

    Now in studies done on men who masturbate to porn and interesting dynamic has been discovered. The habit of PMO lows androgen receptor density and sensitivity. Androgen receptors are what receive testosterone's encoded messages. Men who PMO might have equal testosterone to men who don't PMO - or very close levels. But what they don't have is the same response to that testosterone. Instead, their circulating testosterone is utilized less and converts to estrogen at a higher rate. On top of that, their dopamine receptors also loose sensitivity. This effects thought patterns. The ability of a PMO free male to form positive, "winning-scenario" thoughts is greater than the PMO addict's ability.

    Most importantly, the cognitive effects most of us experience are due to androgen receptor density and sensitivity in the brain increasing. This, along with sensitive dopamine receptors is an actual physical manifestation of higher IQ.

    Side effects of increased androgen receptor density/sensitivity are clearer thoughts, stimulation of the pre-frontal cortex (increased capacity for long term problem solving), harder muscles, faster reflexes, stronger/more frequent erections. I have experienced all of this since adopting the no-PMO lifestyle.

    Sex with women has not been shown to lower androgen receptor density/sensitivity - nor does it lower testosterone. Testosterone levels dip following orgasm, with a rise in prolactin. Depending on your endocrine system, you might hastily handle prolactin levels and clear in out. This is followed by the refractory period were testosterone levels rise and level out.

    From my experience I can have more orgasms and expend more energy through sex than through PMO and come out with more energy.
     
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  17. Geyser

    Geyser Fapstronaut

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    Hey Ryan, I can tell you from personal experience excessive ejeculations zap your enery and vitality. I've gone overboard with PMOing, obviously, or I wouldn't be here. But I've also had multiples with women. Personally, my limit is 3 and still be able to have a somewhat productive day. If I go back for 4th's I'm done for. At some point I will end up crashing on the couch. I.e. pass out from exhaustion.

    Either way the effect on me is the same.

    Hope this helps,

    Geyser
     
  18. DarkClaw89

    DarkClaw89 Fapstronaut

    This is an old thread, but I wondered what would happen with a resurrection.


    When I was a kid, I was a huge dragon ball z fan. I would watch it daily, and really connected with the characters on a personal level. (At some point later in life, I would find dbz P - but that's a story for another time). For the fans that know dbz, there's a part of the story where the main character contracts a heart virus and is unable to function, let alone fight / perform martial arts. When that happened, I inexplicably started performing worse athletically in all of my activities (I was a star athlete at my school so it was hard on me). I connected so deeply with the main character of dbz that I just knew whatever was affecting him was also affecting me. It actually took me a long time to get past that blocker.

    The point of my story is that there are many psychological and social effects (in addition to biology) that factor into human behaviour and functions. If this community is abstaining from PMO, it's entirely possible we're all creating negative associations with P, M, and O, just to help us abstain, when in reality they are not inherently evil. (Some may disagree about P and M, but I think P and M are tools like any other - they can be used in measure, or abused. Most of us have abused them, so we need to abstain completely to reboot, and many decide to stay away forever. Just like someone who has overcome alcoholism chooses to never touch any other substance ever again because they don't even want to tempt themselves, or play with fire.)

    In any case, I agree with @Septimus that I'm see a lot responses about pseudoscience, personal anecdotes, and cultural traditions (which is cool - you do you, and whatever works for you!) - but I don't see much scientific research being shared. I haven't personally done any research, but my suspicion is that the only benefit from semen retention is retaining the energy and resources used to create and expel ejaculate and the hormones associated with ejaculation, which I would imagine is not very significant (though with constant abuse, I'm sure it adds up, along with the hormonal effects that make you lethargic and sleepy after ejaculation). Additionally, my understanding is that there are benefits to regular ejaculation for prostate health.

    I'm admittedly still quite early in my own journey (Day 37 of PM, 18 of PMO), but so far I don't know that I've experienced any benefits to semen retention during any of the attempts in the past. Maybe I haven't abstained from O long enough for true semen retention, but I would argue that I'm already feeling huge benefits from abstaining from just PM. But I definitely haven't associated those benefits with O and semen retention (mostly because I haven't been retaining my semen). Those are my two cents.

    EDIT: @hopefullynotfappin shared a good, measured video in my opinion - but Trigger Warning!!
    Even though I'm not a fan of a dogmatic functionalist approach in bio theory, the video does mention there being a potential functional purpose to regular ejaculation (and M) for increasing sperm quality. Interesting. And for anyone reading this who is still struggling with recovery - this is not even remotely a reason to start PMO again - we're all here because we've abused it. Stick to abstinence. Get healthy.

     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
  19. ReclaimedLife

    ReclaimedLife Fapstronaut

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    I dont have a woman right now, but when i had i was equally energetic at the time, also in full no porn mode for at least 40 days before we got together.
    But as i have no one around, not O'ing sure gives me energy. Probably a bit too much energy to be honest.
     

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