Here we go again SOs, should the addict disclose his addiction or hide it?

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by GG2002, Mar 16, 2018.

  1. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    This goes around at least once a month on this thread and it has come around again, so if you could please let @Thomas Smith 2 know your thoughts:

    “Once again GG2002 is not telling the whole truth. There are MANY SO’s RIGHT HERE on nofap who admit that they would not date PA’s yet now they are heavily invested in the relationship with them and are not leaving. GG2002 your bitterness for your ex is causing you to continue to mislead guys.”

    So SOs am I misleading men in advising them to be honest early on? Would you prefer that your PMO partner mislead you, and then you find out once you are “invested” you stay because why? Because he lied? Am I wrong in advising addicts to be honest from the get go? Is it better to wait until the So is invested and then drop the bomb?
     
  2. Jennica

    Jennica Fapstronaut

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    No, I do not believe you are misleading, not at all. One huge reason is giving the potential SO the respect to make a decision for themselves, it’s giving the respect of being of honest. It’s not giving into the secrets and lies that causes the devistation and betrayal to us SO’s.
    I could go on and on but it’s almost beating a dead horse.
     
  3. Numb

    Numb Fapstronaut

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    You are not misleading. If I knew early on we would have had a couple of options. We could have ended things before feelings grew. That would have been the easy way. We could have worked on things early on and maybe still be together but not had all this pain and BT. If I would have known from the beginning that he was a PA, without knowing what I do now what would I have done? Honestly I think I would have given him a chance. If I knew he was a PA and KNOW what I know now? That to me is a completely different question. If I knew ahead of time all the lies and pain. The betrayal, the years of feeling like nothing. Of wondering if life was worth it? I don't know. I don't know the answer to that. I can't honestly say I would go through it again. Or that I wouldn't. Maybe in a few years I'll have a better idea.
    But to not tell is deceitful. It is lying and not a true relationship. If you must hide a huge part of you and your life from someone you should think twice if this is the right person for you. If you had any respect for that person you would disclose that part of yourself and give them the choice. By lying you are taking that away. I really feel like some of these PA do not get it. They see it, but don't get betrayal trauma. Or they minimize it. It is a very real, very horrible thing and I couldn't imagine being the cause of it to someone I love so much. And it all could have been avoided by being open in the beginning and just being honest.
     
  4. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    "Heavily invested" and "date" are two very different things. I didn't find out about my husband's addiction until 19 years into our marriage. The devastation and destruction that has come with it cannot easily be described or easily fixed. We have a life together, we have history, we have children who would be greatly affected if I just left. We both owe it to each other and to our kids to do everything we can to repair the damage done and hold our family together. Thankfully, he is and we are and everything is moving forward. But it is going to take years for our family to recover, and even then, things are forever changed.

    BUT...dating...there really is nothing invested. My husband and I have talked and I have said that if something were to happen and we were no longer married, I would never date anyone involved in PMO again. It will come up in discussion very early on whether the guy brings it up, or I do. So the truth telling (or lying) begins up front.

    That said, there are women who will stay, even from the beginning. One of hubby's friends from group told his wife up front on the second or third date, that he is a sex addict and he will continue his recovery activities for life so she can choose to date him and his recovery or leave. She stayed and they've been married a number of years.

    It really depends on the level of the relationship and if the addict sees it going anywhere. There's no reason to mention it if it's very early and there is clearly no connection. But the second the addict sees that there is more and things are gping to continue...it is time to disclose. Nothing good comes from hiding it at that point.
     
    AtticusEnd, GG2002, Jagliana and 3 others like this.
  5. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    You're not misleading, you're trying to warn guys to be honest because then they won't destroy the person they later on will "claim to love."

    Being honest from the getgo shows respect. Dating and being invested as others said are two very different things. When you've spent years with someone, have finances and kids together, it isn't easy to just leave, you have responsibilities. And maybe a point that is not discussed is that maybe some SO's just stay becuase it's more convienient or the familial responsiblities are too great for them to leave.

    Some SO's stay because they truly love their partner, and some might not stay for those reasons, the reasons are endless and individual for each SO.

    I've told my husband a million times, I would have rather him be upfront and honest, so we could be friends if he wanted to get better, and once he was in a good place, then we could try dating, that's how I wished our story went.
     
  6. Thomas Smith 2

    Thomas Smith 2 Fapstronaut

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    I'll write more later today, but you have told an untruth, GG2002. Don't you realize that? You have said women WILL leave a guy, and you know the truth is that they do not always do. Asking women's opinion if 2+2=4 doesn't change the fact that 2+2=4. Understand my point? You repeatedly write something that you KNOW is not true. That is why you are misleading. And you supposedly value honesty.
     
  7. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    She isn't misleading anyone at all. TIMING is everything. It's really not that complicated to understand. I mean it's pretty simple...

    I can guess that most of the SO's here, who decided to stay with their PA after DDay - was because they felt TRAPPED by the time the disclosure occurred. I'll elaborate further with a few scenarios:

    DATING:
    • If I was just dating my PA for a few months and caught/discovered his addiction, and then he continued to lie about it, I would have left him - without hesitation.
    • If I was dating him and he was upfront and HONEST with me about his addiction, it would give ME the choice of whether or not I want to stick around and help him get better or just leave.
    Time is also a big factor, the more time that is invested in a relationship - dating or married, the more difficult it is to leave because of the time spent/history etc but when dating you still have an easier choice to leave.

    MARRIED:
    • If I am married and make a discovery, just like long-term dating, I have a choice to cut my losses and leave now or if HE openly admitted it to me, I could stay and help if I am so in love.
    • If I am married for 2 years, have a newborn baby and my world was just turned upside down because I DISCOVERED this on my own, leaving is not so easy to do, I have a newborn, I have to think about the baby now too, I am in essence TRAPPED. Either I suck it up (my pain) or become a single mom.
    • If I am married for 10+ years, have two or more kids and I DISCOVERED this on my own, all of a sudden this man I've been sleeping next to for over a decade, making history/memories, kids, investments, debt, properties, vehicles aka everything is now in doubt and question BUT as much as I HATE HIM right now, all those years, I grew used to him, he's not just my husband, he is a father of my kids, we own stuff TOGETHER - there is so much to lose now because of it, some women just feel trapped because of their situation now and have nothing else to do, but to help this man they thought they knew - get better. It's not so easy to just walk away after so many years and especially with kids involved.
    Do you understand the difference? pretty much what @GG2002 is saying is, every circumstance is different BUT being honest upfront gives us, the S.O a CHOICE, when it's sitting there until it's discovered in most cases, then not - WE the S.O's are in a much more difficult situation to just "get up and leave."

    :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  8. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Read what I wrote. What I said was the in early dating, some women will leave you for being a PMO addict, whether you tell them on date one or “3 months in.” But the women that would not have left you at month 1 if you told the truth will leave you at month 3 because now you are a liar. Now notice the time period that I used 3 months. The type of situation you are referring to is women that are married, with kids and years invested in relationships, and yes they do sometimes stay. But as you will see with the comments above there are other reasons. You are implying they stay because they happily accept the PMO addiction, because they know you better now? So basically what you are saying is to be dishonest about the addiction until the partner is so far invested that it would be too hard to leave? I was not speaking of long term, I said three months. So if you would like me to amend it and say “the majority of women would leave even if they would have initially accepted the PMO addiction if three months in they find out they have been lied to?” Better? Bottom line is whether she leaves or not, it’s wrong to lie to your partner. She deserves to know upfront and be able to make her own decisions.
     
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I am glad you used the word trapped because that’s what I was thinking as well. Because it’s implied in his comment that the long term SOs stay because somehow they are accepting of the addiction and lying. But the reality is most people are more willing to try to work things out in a marriage, long term relationship or where kids are involved. But it still hurts like hell. To me it seems conniving and manipulative for a PMO addict to not tell using the rational that he will suck her in, get her to a point where it’s harder to leave and then tell her. And as we all know an addict who does not tell early on normally never tells, it’s discovered. The interesting thing is the OP I was responding too agreed he should tell early on and was being told no by other addicts.
     
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  10. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Sounds like what he is implying.

    Exactly, that was me in two cases. First discovery, I had a two month old and dealing with postpartum depression, I felt too scared, embarrassed to tell anyone about this discovery and now trapped cause a baby was involved. However, he swore he was done, it was just a phase etc., 10 years later, another kid, debt, home added to the mix - another big dday. There I was, a fool who believed he stopped - trapped again with a much bigger list of reasons to just suck it up and stay.
     
  11. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Had he told me he had a problem, we could have gotten help and saved me 10 years of betrayal trauma.

    Or had he told me within the first few months of dating, I would have left and found someone else to share my life with.
     
    GG2002 likes this.
  12. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    And you deserved to make that choice not have it made for you. I think a lot of this goes back to seeing women as objects to be acquired rather than human beings with their own thoughts and feelings.
     
  13. Jagliana

    Jagliana Fapstronaut

    Now that he is in recovery he is finally "seeing the light" - I asked him:

    "You saw I was becoming disconnected, always in a bad mood, unhappy for years and even complaining to you that I needed some romance, connection etc., why didn't you ever care or at least TRY to do something?"

    He said to me: "Well, what I told myself was: I'm bringing home a paycheck, running errands and handling the kids when needed, I figured what else did I need to do? I am doing what I have to, no more/no less" basically he felt he was doing his 'husbandly required duties', so paying attention to his wife or making her feel like a woman, wasn't really something he thought was necessary.

    I understand that way of thinking, his dad was like that, old school mentality; it was how he grew up, if the man brings home the bacon, he can do as he pleases...therefore, woman - sit down and shut up.

    NOW he says, he has begun to think of it in another way. Taking care of his family is something that he has to do, he isn't doing anyone any favors. He wanted to be a married man with a family. Same as when our daughter wants something, he says no, she says: "BUT I DID MY HOMEWORK!" -- of course, because you have to do it, you aren't doing me any favors.

    He is really turning a new leaf this time, it is the first time he is actually putting in an effort to change.

    Having said all that, had I known when we were dating... I would have been with someone else right now.
     
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  14. Thomas Smith 2

    Thomas Smith 2 Fapstronaut

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    I don't see where you write "3 months in". I see where you write "months in". And no, I didn't mean to imply that the women stay because they happily accept the PMO addiction. Why did you think I implied that?

    You aren't listening to what I've said many times. I'll say it again: one of the reasons PAs don't tell their SO up front about their addiction is because they know that many of them will not leave once they fall in love with them, or are deeply committed to them. You keep telling PAs that their SO will leave them once they find out they've been lied to, but that is just UNTRUE! You don't need to continue to be dumbfounded as to why PAs lie. This is why - they know that, in some/many cases, lying gets them the woman they want, for keeps. Now, I'm not saying it's right (it certainly isn't), but often, it works!
     
  15. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    I don't know if you read my post above, but if you didn't, here's a quick recap. I found out about my husband's addiction at 19 years married.

    Yes, we have a life together, yes, we have history, yes, we have kids. But leaving was not out of the question. While a divorce would have been hard on my kids, his behavior the two years before his addiction was revealed (it was escalating right before my eyes without me even knowing), was almost harder to live with. When I finally did discover it, he was at first unwilling to let it go. And then when he said he would, it was only partially. Unbeknownst to him, I got myself a PO Box, I went to completely different bank than where we have our joint account and started my own and began putting money away. I looked up all the divorce laws in my state. I was preparing for something I had no desire to do, but would if I had to, to protect myself and to teach my children that this is not a life I will allow them to live in. I set a time limit...in my head, that he knew nothing about...for how long I would put up with his bullshit before I kicked him out. I needed to see change, initiated by him, not me pushing him, for our marriage to stay together. Fortunately, he did acknowledge his addiction and sought help on his own. We are slowly rebuilding.

    Let me say that his not disclosing to me all those years ago was not a calculated move. Porn addiction was not a 'thing' back then. The internet was not prevalent in every household like it is today. We didn't even have a computer in our house for several years after we were married, let alone a cell phone, and even then, those first cell phones only made calls. Texting didn't even exist. We had a pager when my first child was born. So yes, he had a problem with porn before we met and hid it from me while we were dating, but he did not lie about it to "keep me." He was not aware it was really a problem at the time.

    I think you are wrong in your reasoning. While some PAs may lie to their SO just to get them 'hooked' first, that is a minority. That is actually quite diabolical. The reasons are more likely these: 1. they think once they are in their relationship further they won't need PMO because all their needs will be met by their SO. 2. they think they can kick the habit on their own and their SO will never need to know. 3. they are afraid their SO will leave so they plan to keep it a secret forever (they may or may not plan to stop). 4. they don't have a problem and can stop anytime.
     
  16. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yes the post I was responding to involved someone who knew he was a PMO addict and whether or not to reveal. That to me is manipulative. But many have no idea that PMO addiction even exists yet a lone that they have it. a lot do lie about their porn use though because they know it’s too much, or not normal, but may not link it to an addiction. That was the case with my ex. He had no idea that he had a PMO addiction, or that it was the cause of his ED. But when an addict of any type knows that he suffers from the addiction, and purposely does not reveal that in the hopes that the SO will fall so in love she won’t care, that’s manipulative.
     
  17. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I did indeed use the time frame of three months, you just read over it and translated it into what you wanted it to say. So let me revise that to make you feel better. “If you do not tell your partner about your PMO addiction, early on in the relationship, and you continue to lie for years to the point that she is so entangled in the relationship with It’s very difficult to leave, she may stay with you. But even if she stays, you and she will go through absolute hell. You will not only be seen as an addict, but a liar and your whole relationship will seem like a lie to her. She will need therapy, she will spend months crying, it will effect your children if you have them.” Better? If a person, has to trick somebody into a relationship with them than that person has serious issues, and that’s what you advising trickery. It’s not okay. And viewing it from the viewpoint of “but she will stay” is selfish, and treating her as an object, not a real human being.
     
  18. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Over on the other original post there was talk of about how being vunerable could be unattractive to women, or admitting to being an addict could mean women would perceive men as weak. Okay, but what seems to be missed is that to most people the most attractive quality is honesty. So any other factor will be discounted if honesty is not present. I mean do women say oh okay I can accept that he’s a liar, so long as he’s not vunerable? And to the men who are all about “being masculine,” women that seek men like that out, are not attracted to cowards, and liars are just that cowards.
     
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  19. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    For me, vulnerability is an emotional turn on because it takes trust and honesty to be vulnerable, which means you get to have a deeper connection with the other. I don't view men who have an addiction as weak, I view them as strong if they are in recovery. Weak men are the ones who lie/cheat/betray etc. It takes courage to be vulnerable, it's a strength, not a weakness.
     
  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    That was exactly my response to the poster who said that women found vulnerability unattractive. I find it very attractive. You have to allow yourself to be vulnerable in relationships to fall in love. So a man that is not or won’t alloe himself to be will never be able to give me the type of intimate connection I desire. This has a lot to do with the huge disconnect between what women want and what men think they want. Men don’t tend to talk about this with each other much but I am sure if you ask most women including myself even the men who appear to be tough to the public are vulnerable alone with their partners.
     

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