Honesty: does it depend on the context?

Discussion in 'Rebooting in a Relationship' started by Braveheart1990, Feb 14, 2018.

Does telling your partner depend on the context?

  1. Yes - tell if it would do more harm not to

    7 vote(s)
    33.3%
  2. No - you must always tell

    14 vote(s)
    66.7%
  1. Braveheart1990

    Braveheart1990 Fapstronaut

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    I completely understand that a lot of the comments in this thread are justifiably coming from a position of hurt, however some have failed to realise that I am still in very, very early stages. Some (@AnonymousAnnaXOXO in particular) have made the same very valid points with understanding and without resorting to judgmental personal attacks, and for that I am truly thankful.

    This was meant to be a general question but it has become almost completely directed at me, which was not my intention. I appreciate all comments and advice but I feel as though some could have perhaps been worded in a far less judgmental way. This was one of the first posts in which I admitted to someone other than myself that I am suffering. To face that kind of judgment and, what seemed like, mockery is not helpful. Especially so early in my hopeful recovery. I joined this website for positivity and encouragement while I try to fix myself, not judgment.
     
  2. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    [QUOTE="Braveheart1990, post: 1312764, member: 196367] however some have failed to realise that I am still in very, very early stages. .[/QUOTE]

    This is self awareness.
    The rest is just justification that based on your position of healing, you get a "pass" on your behavior to lie.

    And that's not me being judgmental, that's me being blunt and stating the obvious..
    I'm also not mocking you, because that's rude. Just pointing out the obvious.
    The only person who can decide if you get a "pass" to lie, is your partner.
    I can guarantee that unless she's said she doesn't want to know, she does.
    That's where honesty isn't truly honesty, unless it's transparent.
     
  3. Queenie%Bee

    Queenie%Bee Fapstronaut

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    I’m sorry that you are feeling the way you are . You have to remember you are in “rebooting in a relationship “ forum .
    There are many SO of PA in this forum that read about a man not telling his SO , and out of EXPERIENCE, the ones like myself that found out like a fucking head on car crash STRONGLY advise you to tell , is because we KNOW first hand what it’s like , and the PA that are responding to tell I’m pretty sure wish they had the CHANCE to go back and doing it differently. Again I feel bad knowing you are so new to this , but maybe a different forum would be better to ask that question? Not judging just maybe you’ll get kid gloves from other men that newly rebooted and their wives don’t know . For myself as an SO , when reading this question I picture you as my husband asking the question and Yelling TELL HER
     
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  4. Queen_Of_Hearts_13

    Queen_Of_Hearts_13 Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I know my husband WISHES he had told me, because in the end I understand addiction and have been supportive but the lying was the real heartbreaker in the end. I think a lot of addicts look back and realized had they been honest things would have been a million times easier.

    But remember, this is a person in the very early stages. I am not condoning, but I am trying to remind people that maybe he is still in the porn brain fog and still has lots of addict thinking (which is normal in the early stages of recovery) and it's okay and probably a good idea to point out addict thinking that way he can learn and reflect on his own time.

    My husband, has looking back, thought, "Did I really say/do that to you? I couldn't have!" but then he realizes it's not the real him (aka it doesn't line up with his values etc), it's the addict within him. Does that make sense?

    Anyways, I hope the OP stays strong, learns what he can from this site, and continues with recovery in all levels (i.e. journaling, this forum, therapist, etc.)
     
  5. The Wrestler

    The Wrestler Fapstronaut

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    First you say it is not her fault, but highlight her choice of a career that has her out late. The second proposition undermine the first - it really seems like you're blaming her. And yet, she's not the one surfing the cam girls or taking her relationship captial away from her partner...
     
  6. Werka

    Werka Fapstronaut

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    OK, I'm an SO and I will say that it depends but hear me out.
    My husband's thing was also cam sites. And it does hurt like hell. I knew before that he was occasionally watching porn and I was sort of OK with that. I occasionally watched it too (shoot me now). But the extent of it and the cam sites... That was just a hell of a bombshell and I don't wish anyone to have to deal with this. Apart from the financial side (which now, every time my husband is considering whether to buy something or not based on the price I feel like yelling "And it was OK to spend THOUSANDS of pounds a month on THAT shit?!!!!"), the emotional rollercoaster is just unreal. It's been almost 6 months since discovery for us and I still have absolutely no idea how to live with it.
    So to me, it would depend. Firstly, in our case, that was something that was going on for our entire relationship and affected every single sphere of our lives (I spent 10 years looking for solutions and trying to fix everything myself with my husband coming up with rubbish excuses for everything). But now he is quitting and there are results.
    And by results, I don't mean that he is (hopefully) not engaging in any form of PMO anymore. I mean he is changing. He is going to therapy and the sessions sometimes shake him really big time. I don't think people get addicted just because they have nothing better to do, like you seem to imply. If you are struggling with quitting, there are underlying issues. These may be childhood traumas you have never realized you had. Those issues are what needs to be identified and dealt with. Personally, I can't imagine anyone doing it without therapy. It is an addiction. Addiction is an illness. You need a doctor. Simple.
    So if you are serious about your recovery and about your relationship, you should consider therapy. Now, your choice would be to tell your partner about therapy and lie about the reasons, or you would need to hide the fact that you are in therapy. That just adds another lie. On top of the original one. There may be things in therapy that would come up, things you need to do, or feelings you would really love to share with someone. Would you like to keep her out of that whole process?
    Also, you will see from descriptions on this forum - people's whole relationship dynamics change once they are in recovery. Sexual behaviours change, motivations change, communication changes, emotional involvement changes. If these changes happen in your relationship, how would you explain them to your partner?
    An important thing for successful recovery is a distraction. Replacing the old habit with new ones. Starting to live in the real world. It can be joining the gym, starting a course, learning a language, origami, whatever.

    Now, if my husband suddenly out of the blue started to want to talk to me like he does now, joined the gym (having not done a single second of exercise EVER), started helping around the house, became more interested in the kids, not to mention the sex-related changes, I would become very suspicious.

    BUT - at the point I caught him, he had been an addict for nearly 30 years. Thus, it affected who he was in general. And how he was - with me, with people, with the world.
    Maybe your case is different. Maybe you started a week ago and only went online a handful of times. We don't know that. We have no idea to what extent it affects your interactions with your partner or your whole existence (although most addicts, I think, live believing that it's not affecting anything at all as "they only do it when their partner isn't there"). I can only imagine, that if my partner did something totally stupid, like go to a cam site and spent a fortune on it in one night but realised it was wrong, and decided to never do it again and succeeded - I perhaps would be OK with not knowing. If he could bring himself to a position in which his attitude towards me as a woman was not tainted by that experience in any way. But that's not our scenario. It's difficult to think of an alternative for me, as he would still be 'out there' if I didn't find out. There is only one thing I am certain of: I would have felt much better if I had learned the truth from him, rather than finding out myself. The fact that you realized you are doing something wrong is a big thing. Something I really wish my husband had realized a long, long time before our discovery day.
    And if he had dealt with it without getting me involved, with only him being haunted by it, maybe it would work. I don't know. The thought of not having to deal with the pain, the thoughts and the emotions is tempting.
    I just can't really see how, in practice, I could miss all the recovery outcomes without worrying that he may have joint some cult, or was having an affair.
    One additional threat associated with not telling her is the risk of relapsing. The awareness that you've been there, done that, nothing happened. There were no consequences. You have the resources and environment to go back whenever you want and nobody gets hurt. So you go back once, just for a minute. Then you go for ten. And you continue like this. Until one day she finds out. It may take a month. It may take a year. It may take a decade. And THEN it gets ugly.
     
  7. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    I agree with a LOOOOT of what has been said in this thread. And I need to tell you, as a PA, I wish with all of my heart that I had the chance to come to my SO with my addiction. The thing is, I didn’t see it as a problem. You’re so lucky because you understand that it is. And you can use that platform as a jumping off point to protect her from some hurt.

    Think of it this way though. How would you feel if your partner had an affair? But she said to herself “I will never do this again! I will work on myself and get better.”
    Scenario 1: she does. She never had an affair again. Would you really be happy that you never knew? Ignorance is bliss I suppose.
    Scenario 2: she try’s really hard. But slips up a few times. Each time this happens, you never know. But just IMAGINE how it would feel, her going around behind your back with all these other guys. Because she can’t help herself. Would you rather not know? Or would you rather her come to you crying that she has a problem and needs help. Asking for forgiveness?
    Scenario 3: she tries for a little bit. But realizes it’s not worth the effort, and just continues to sleep around. You never find out. You never know. Or maybe you see a text on her phone one day that says “baby, you grind that cock so good.”
    How do you feel? Don’t you wish you could have stopped it before it got to that point?

    I know it’s not a thing, really, but what if you found out she was watching men on cam, masturbating to them, paying them, chatting with them. “Mmm, it’s so big, I wish I could taste it!”
    I know it’s graphic. But honestly, aren’t you doing the EXACT same thing? You’re chatting with these girls. You’re saying disgusting things you would never say if your partner was there.

    My girlfriend just walked in the house after being out for a walk. I love her more than anything. I just want to spend time with her. She walks in the house after having remember something she found out on her own. And she can’t fucking stand me right now. I started writing this before she came inside. And now I’m crying. Because she fucking hates me. And I love her. Do not do this to someone you love. Do not be like the rest of us. You have the chance to do things right.
     
  8. BBWolf000

    BBWolf000 Fapstronaut

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    This forum has become a real gauntlet for addicts man. Create a post asking for advice from people who have dealt with this and hopefully get some practical answers and you're inundated with "REPENT OR DIE!!!!" ..... smh.

    To the SO responders: Do you think he doesn't know that honesty is important? Do you think that he doesn't know there is something wrong with his behavior? He didn't come here to ask if honesty was a good thing or a bad thing. He came looking for suggestions on how to approach this without completely ripping his life apart, especially from the get go, and what did he get? Complete strangers telling him how is relationship isn't real, he lives a lie and should basically castrate himself before he can hurt another unsuspecting human.

    Take that garbage to the curb. The Dr. Phil, "Reality Check" style of accosting posters just screams of a scorned lover looking to lash out at others like the one that hurt them.

    To the OP: I know exactly what you're talking about and this is a tough problem that will require an individual answer. My suggestion to addicts early in abstaining is to do exactly that. Abstain. Focus on removing all facets of P & M from your life AT ALL COSTS! Once you do this, your addiction might evolve in attempt to maintain control. Cam girls might become Instagram Posts, attractive people on Facebook or You tube Videos and if it does get rid of those as well. Doesn't have to be forever, but definitely until you feel like you've reached a more stable place.

    Make progress on your own, build up a few weeks of success then see how you feel. Remember, yes there are benefits for your relationship that come from NOFAP but its first and foremost designed to address something YOU are struggling with. I know its tough but the results that come with commitment are palpable in so many parts of your life. It's worth the effort. And smile; You Can Do It!
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2018
    Braveheart1990 likes this.
  9. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I looked back through the whole thread and I don’t see any judgment at all. I see lots of opinions that disagree with you but how is that judgment? The only mocking I did was call you out on saying that being a lawyer gives you a justification to lie. As a fellow lawyer I find that personally offensive to the profession! People already view us in a horrible light come on now?

    You asked a question and we answered honestly. And the SOs who answered gave a voice to your own SO a voice that you are trying very hard to drown out so I can see why this upsets you as you don’t want to hear it. And now you are hearing it over and over again and since deep down you know what you are doing in being dishonest is wrong (otherwise you would not have asked the question) it stings. You were looking for responses that justify your behavior and you got very few. I get it you don’t like that and no matter how we put it you still would be upset and angry.

    But would you rather hear it straight up from us and be able to save the relationship or would you rather hear it from her as she’s walking out the door? I get that you are in the early stages of recovery but that in no way means you have all the time in the world to decide to be honest. That time is very limited and the longer you wait the worse it’s going to be.

    If you notice the people that coddle you on here are active addicts or in early stages of addiction. If you come to NoFap looking for people that are just going to reinforce what you think you are in the wrong place! How would that help you to grow?

    I know you can’t see it now but to a non addict brain the excuses and rationalizationd you make in this thread are nonsensical and so maybe that’s why you experience it as mocking. It’s like you are saying the sky’s purple and everyone else sees it as brown. The lengths that an addicts mind goes to to justify their conduct is extreme and non addicts experience it like “ no really do you actually believe that? “ it’s a head smacking experience to us while to you it makes total sense.
    Never ask a question if you don’t want to know the answer.
     
  10. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    It is definitely a case of the addictive fog and mindset. And like I said I think the reason he may feel mocked is to the non addict mind or the addict in recovery the attempts to rationalize often come across as nonsensical and so when someone is speaking nonsense for whatever reason and asking for opinions what does he or she expect? But the addict can’t see its nonsense and gets upset as his very valid to him point of view is being treated as nonsense. Did you ever hear the song “don’t take the girl,” country song. Often when I’m reading the justifications on here I hear that song except “please don’t take the porn” replaces the title. And by that I mean the song lists everything the singer is willing to give up, so long as he can keep the porn. “Take my money, take my wallet, here’s my credit cards. Take the watch that my grandpa gave me, here’s the keys to my car.” He also talk about taking his best friends, etc.
     
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  11. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I do agree that lawyers have a negative rap. But I am a lawyer myself so no that’s not it. I don’t see any vitriol anywhere but maybe you are just more sensitive and define vitriol differently than I do. I just see people that disagree and who are pointing out bad behavior on his part. He asked?
     
  12. Thomas Smith

    Thomas Smith Fapstronaut

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    Ummm... I wasn't going to point this out before, but now I will. GG2002 said in another post that one knows an addict is lying when he opens his mouth. I wonder where she got that from? How about from her own profession! As the famous joke goes:

    Q: How do you know when a lawyer is lying?
    A: When she opens his (her) mouth.
     
  13. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    Your point?
     
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  14. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Exactly. I love lawyer jokes they are usually hilarious! But I’m not sure what the point of the post is either. There are bad lawyers just like there are bad people in every profession. But they are not all liars. Most addicts lie and lie a lot it’s the nature of addiction.
     
  15. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    The OP asked for advice on people that have dealt with this situation and they gave him advice, he just did not like what was said. You cannot ask for advice and then get mad when the people do not agree with you? What you are saying is that people here should give him advice on how to lie better to his partner, or justify his lies. I don’t know how you can expect anyone to do that? He did not ask how to stop PMO, he asked if situational honesty was okay. He got answers to that. He did not like them, and then felt attacked.
     
  16. CowardlyLion

    CowardlyLion Fapstronaut

    Agreed. The thing is, the advice may SOUND harsh. But just like GG is saying...it’s the way it is. Sex addiction and lies are a horrible monster. The reason it seems like a “gauntlet” is because the reality of this situation is rough and ugly.
    SO advice is some of the best advice we can take on this forum. As addicts, we all have our perspectives. Whatever our reasoning or situations may be. But the SO’s give us a glance into the heads of our partners. Something us addicts would never be able to understand otherwise. I see my partner in every single SO. I see her hurt in every word that is said. And it makes me want want to be a better man.
     
  17. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    If it was a slam towards you, it was misplaced. If he was defending the OP, he may not have realized that he actually double whammied the OP with his statement, considering the OP is both a PA and a lawyer. o_O
     
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  18. Braveheart1990

    Braveheart1990 Fapstronaut

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    For what it is worth, I did not take exception to some of the comments because it wasn't "what I wanted to hear". I have spoken to some of the other posters who advocated disclosure, about how and when to make that disclosure, separately through private message. I will continue to do so but, with the exception of this message, I've gone back to being a lurker on the public forum.

    I posted this thread to hear the other side not to be mocked and judged. You may simply dismiss that as me not wanting to hear certain harsh truths but that is not the case. I'm receptive to the information, just not the way in which it was presented by many - not all - of the respondees to this thread. There are others who have spoken to me privately and publicly in this thread agreeing that I was mocked, I was judged and that I am welcome on this forum. If others are agreeing that at times this debate descended into mockery, then maybe you should ask yourself whether they are saying that because I "didn't hear what I wanted to hear"?

    Like I said, I'm receptive to the message, just not how it was conveyed. I would suggest that in future some members adopt a less dismissive and judgmental tone on the forum because we're all here to battle problems of one sort or another, whether that is as a SO or PA. This should be a safe place to share, and disagree with one another, without fear of mockery.

    This is not to say I disagree with you about disclosure. As I have said, I've discussed how and when to do that with others. I do, however, strongly disagree with the way a lot of the members in this thread put that message across.
     
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2018
  19. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    I see where you are coming from. But I really don’t see judgment in this feed or mocking. Maybe if you could let us know what specific phrasing or words you felt this way about so we could all see that. I do not think anyone intended to come off that way. And I really don’t see that at all. That’s not to say that your feelings are not justified but maybe you could help others by showing us what wording bothered you and how we could have said that same thing in a better way to still respond and give you an honest opinion but not in a way that makes you feel “judged.” I’ve been on forums where SOs rant and I’ve ranted but that’s not here at least not that I see it.
     
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  20. GG2002

    GG2002 Fapstronaut

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    Yep. I always say you know how you have won an argument? When the person attacks you personally. If they had an argument they would make it but they don’t do they go low.
     

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