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Discussion in 'Porn Addiction' started by Owari, Sep 14, 2016.
Yeah, this is not an all-or-nothing approach. I never advocated legalizing ALL porn.
I really like reading these responses, reading suggestions and potential solutions and alternatives and discussing these is rather constructive!
Regarding this the issue is that pornography and pornographic content is not clearly defined and there on varying opinions on what pornography is. What may be stimulating to some may not be to another. For example, in a movie, is a scene showing someone in a bathtub pornography? Even if she/he is covered in soap (or something else)? As well as this dilema, there is the fact that pornography is in many forms. There are movies with sex scenes, plain old pornographic videos on the internet, books, writings, and many more that can fall under the classification of pornography, and regulating pornography may have to include all of this and more depending on what the law is specifically. Some may consider this "right", others may consider this a "violation of the 1st Amendment".
Yeah but the movie is the main thing and porn is just part of the plot. In a porn movie the plot is part of the porn.
It depends on your motivation if it´s porn or not. If a doctor looks at a naked women online to reasearch her body for whatever medical knowledge it isn´t porn.
If he does it to arouse himself and masturbate, it is porn.
Is porn really protected by an amendment in the states?
I'm glad I live in a country where there's hope for a ban.
Our freedom of speech/expression is protected, and porn is covered under that provision in our Constitution. It's not a specific article geared at porn. You gotta take the bad with the good in a free society.
I agree with education being the best answer. We can never stop people from looking at porn completely. If we try we create black markets that we have to spend money on with little return on our investment. Look at the hundreds of millions of dollars thrown at America's drug problem. I, for one, have always avoided all things addictive. Had I known of the dangers of porn I would have avoided that too.
I think there's a big difference between wishing something didn't exist, and making it illegal. I absolutely wish porn didn't exist. There's absolutely nothing good about it. BUT, a lot goes into making something illegal, including enforcement issues, man power used to stop people from watching porn rather than catching murderers and rapists, money, and the whole issue of encroaching on personal freedom.
I wish porn didn't exist, but I don't think it should be illegal. I think everyone should be free to make their own mistakes and deal with the consequences. While I think the world would be a better place without porn, I also think there are more important things for the government to be focusing on. And as a semi-libertarian, I don't really like the idea of the government having any say in my personal sexual activities at all.
Ok, I can agree that the effects are mostly psychological.
But your last part, that the "idea of porn addiction, and even ED is laughable":
Look at this website, what it says about porn http://www.zanzu.de/en/pornography (this site is for educational purposes and no footage of real people is there, but maybe a trigger warning should be placed here anyway)
"Too much pornography
Watching pornography can become a problem if you do it very often without having it under control. If you feel you need it every day and you need it more and more, you can talk to a health professional about it."
The website is mainly targeting the european immigrants & now refugees, but it's an completely official project by the German Federal Centre for Health Education (BZgA). So everything there should be approved by their "experts".
(Of course this site in general is somehow controversial, or at least involuntary peculiar because of the topics covered and the politically correct depiction of races and skin colors
And as usual the Germans think they know it better and should educate everyone else )
Anyway, so I'd say, the awareness is actually higher than we think, and with the time magazine article it probably skyroketed ...
These porn websites operate mostly in the dark, but when you look at the page views or estimate the consumed time, then it's clearly an epidemic.
Another point are maybe the governments (assuming they somehow care for their population ) On the subject of problematic low birth rates in the west:
Reducing porn consumption will improve the working capacity of the male population in general, will lead to more and healthier relationships and therefore maybe to higher birth rates. (Sure low birth rates here are mainly due to cultural&economic factors, but that can't explain it all)
It is no question to me that porn addiction and abuse has bad side effects on many levels. But is it fair to assume that everyone abuses porn and/or is addicted to it, and treat it as such? There are people who use it occasionally, and most could argue with little or no ill-effects, much like someone who drinks within moderation. I at one point in my life up until after college PMO'd a few times a month, and was probably the better for it during some of my longer stretches between hookups. There has always been porn on some level, even probably painted on the walls of caves. The solution is awareness, and I believe, much tighter control with children.
Oh dear God, no. No, porn should not be illegal. If there is no victim, then there is no crime.
We are NOT victims. We may be powerless against porn (if you are a 12 stepper), but we are not helpless.
Who gets to decide what is porn and what is not? Porn police? No X-rated movies? Am I the only one that PMOed to R-rated movies? OK, ban those too - what about lingerie ads? Where does it stop? I know some fellow addicts who are triggered by the word, sex. Must we make it a crime to ever say the word?
What about those who don't have any problem with porn? By what right would we deny them their chance to enjoy what we have learned not to use?
And what about enforcement issues? I have nude photos of my wife. Is that porn? Does she get arrested for contributing for porn because she posed for me or other photographers?
Anyone following the case in Wisconsin of the 17 year old boy that took consensual photos of his 15 year old girlfriend (where both parents had approved of their sexual union) and is now facing 40 years in prison for possession of child pornography even though he is legally considered a child - and where the investiogating officer tried to arrest the girl because she had a copy of the photo of herself?
Anyone thinking this would work or be a good idea needs only to look at how America's war on drugs is going. And yes, the prohibition comment was a good one too - I remember reading that they expected to turn prisons into gardens when they enacted prohibition.
Again, we are NOT victims. I may be powerless, but I am not the least bit helpless and in need of a government needing to use up-to-lethal force to protect me from something out there that only harms me when I make the choices that lead me back there.
Thank you for putting into words that I somehow could not find. Going down that though path is putting the blame & responsibility in the wrong place.
You got it right, mate! Here in Malaysia, which is coloured red in the picture you put up, pornography is banned and most sites are blocked, mostly because of the religions and our moral beliefs. Unfortunately, some things can slip through and there are still people who struggles with it (pointing at myself).
It's a society and industry thing, so we can only voice an opinion. If there is demand, there is supply (economics, haha). Regardless of how hard you try to block the road, if the desire is there, people will still keep pushing. I can see how banning it will help, because less people get addicted here because of that.
I think it's more important to find ways to reduce the demand, rather than taking it away with brute force, plus it's more sustainable and healthy for the consumers. Spreading the word through NoFap or in-depth articles will definitely help, making sure it's statistically and scientifically backed up to emphasise the "truth and facts" aspect.
Nowadays even movies and tv shows have nudity and sex scenes. Porn is literally all around us. I don't think you can ban it. Even if i suggest to someone that porn should be banned as a friendly discussion, i'd be laughed at.
Whenever we access a porn site, the home page says, "You agree you are above 18 years of age and are entering on your own risk."
Maybe porn shouldn't be available so easily. A mobile phone can give access to porn. Watching porn, having a girl's image as your mobile wall paper is considered cool. Nope, porn won't go away easily.
A simpler approach would be to educate the teenagers in school about effects of pornography.
"Banning porn" to me sounds like fighting sexual fantasy with political fantasy. This is a digression. There is no-one responsible for the pictures running over my monitor but me.
Are we more or less free since pornography has been legalized? There are actually severe political speech codes over most of Europe - even politicians have been prosecuted (Maria Le Pen for example) for not having the 'correct' views. Yet there is more pornography than ever before.
On american campuses, free speech is de facto banned- -dissenting opinions about establishment views can literally get you expelled. yet pornography is literally in the classroom.
There is a clear historically consistent correlation between sexual libertinism and LACK of free expression.
That is not an accident- a decadent people are the ones most likely to be susceptible to totalitarian governments.
Why the relation, you ask? Mainly if you are a totalitarian or trying to remake society you have to destroy the family - and sexually libertism - 'free love' porn etc is one of the easiest ways to do that.
I guess it depends what you use for examples. Saudi Arabia.....no porn or no freedom. China….No porn, no freedom. North Korea… No freedom, no Internet.
Not at all. - I am using all western nations- more porn, less political and individual freedom of political and dissenting thought. there is a direct correlation.
There was also a direct correlation between sexual libertinism and extending totalitarian ideology - Communism is a prime example.
I would also add that HEALTHY societies had governments which protected the most vulnerable from destructive vices. Gambling is a prime example - it has gone from vice to being widely legalized and considered an important revenue stream for government even though it hurts the poorest and most inclined to addiction.
Yeah but… When you were trying to find a correlation, you can't selectively ignore a bunch of data (China, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Iran). You can't ignore all the non-western countries to try to prove that access to porn results in less freedom.
And do you really think Western governments are smart enough that they make us become addicted to porn so we somehow have less freedom ? Sarah Palin was almost vice president.
In the US, the Republicans are starting to talk about controlling porn. But it's all about morality for them. They don't give a shit about the health of people, or they wouldn't keep blocking healthcare reform. For them, it is all about religion and and what they believe God thinks we should be doing.
You raise a good point with gambling. the question is, "should I have the right to put myself at risk of harm? "
Some states allow you to ride a motorcycle without a helmet. Safety versus personal freedom.
Should alcohol be banned? Safety versus personal freedom
Should people be allowed to downhill ski? Safety versus personal freedom
Why not ban motorcycles completely? Certainly they cause a lot of death and injuries. Safety versus personal freedom.
And pretty much everyone agrees and knows that motorcycles are dangerous, yet they are still legal.
Contrast that with porn addiction, outside of the Nofap community, it is just a sliver of the population that would believe porn addiction is real and damaging.
Perhaps they are 'starting to talk about it" but the left/democrats and globalists have done more than "talk" to stifle political expression and dissent. They have essentially criminalized dissent. On campuses certainly - you can literally be expelled to for having the 'wrong' view.
There is the economic penalty - most corporations are actually left leaning (the silicon valley for example) and take steps to censor 'hate speech' which, if you actually look at the definition, casts a pretty wide net.
You are ignoring the fact in western countries freedom to view porn has been done in correlation with stifling true political dissent and expression - and this has been a left/globalist movement. and again it has a direct idealogical agenda - its literally like trying to get your enemies hooked on drugs- they know it will distract and break up opposition which includes intact family units.
You mentioned Iran - in some ways they have freedom of expression than us. In most European countries 'antisemitism' is illegal - again, the definition casts a very wide net. Iran, in reaction to the anti-muslim cartoons, had a holocaust cartoon contest - most of the cartoons would land the artist in jail.
Whether you agree with it or not, it was a pretty clever way to point out our hypocrisy.
Strawman. "Anyone who opposes the iraq war is unamerican' ; anyone who opposes health care 'reform' wants people die without access to doctors.
What about freedom of choice? what about tort reform which keeps medical costs sky high? Funny you are saying this when it is no longer a secret that the democrats intentionally lied about their agenda.
That's where wisdom comes in and that's where having a healthy self reliant people come in. As Edmund Burke says, if restraint doesn't come from within, it will come from without.
Should alcohol be banned? No, but there should be sensible limits and taboos on misuse of it. Maybe limit the hours it can be bought. Gambling has no benefit - none - where alcohol is deeply woven into the fabric of western society - its misuse is the problem - not its use... -the original temperance movements encouraged men to drink beer in moderation vs. hard spirits. Nothing wrong with that IMOP. Gambling has no use. personally i would limit it to on site horse racing
And for the record, yes I think a lot of wall street is gambling and we should not bail out or cover the bets of big banks /investment houses (too big to fail) and that many of the debt instruments and 'trading' of things like futures is defacto gambling but with rigged tables. It's a terrible for the people and the economy.
which brings us back to pornography- there is no benefit, it is extremely damaging it is intentionally used to undermine personal freedom.
I am not talking about nude statues here - I understand the difference between nudes in art and pornography.
The ironic thing is that based on some of the studies I've seen, porn use and addiction may be more prevalent in more devout religions. I saw somewhere that Utah (highly Mormon) was one of the highest porn consumers.