Mermaid Journal 3: Full Disclosure and Beyond.

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by BetrayedMermaid, Sep 1, 2018.

  1. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    It's almost been 7 months since Dday.

    I've moved into a new home with my daughter (purchased).
    I know you're not supposed to make major decisions within the first year but living with him while my daughter is still at home is just not an option and I couldn't afford our large home by myself so... major decision was made.

    Full Disclosure was Thursday evening. I have been wanting the full disclosure for months and have been blocked by his counselor for the main reason that I don't have a solid therapist. I am on my 3rd therapist, the first two were males.. and I just looked at them like they probably are addicted to porn too and are getting off at what I'm saying... I've only had my new female therapist for 3 sessions. His therapist is CSAT trained and advised against Full Disclosure until I am fully established with a therapist and the full disclosure is supposed to be done with my therapist and his therapist and the both of us... so he made me sign an AMA (against medical advise) paper so that if things wen't bad I would sue him?? I wouldn't sue for something I was pushing, but whatever. I told him that I was stuck in my healing until I had this and if my husband was ready, which he said he was, I need this. Also, I supposedly knew nearly everything because I have been squeezing the truth out of him since Dday. My husband said I knew all the major things.. and this is true (if he is being honest). There was nothing that he read on his full disclosure that I didn't already know. He's still claiming he had no physical contact with anyone and no affair, no chats, no prostitutes, no adult friend finder fuck... I guess just porn and fantasies in his head.

    At the part where he disclosed his thoughts about my daughter, he couldn't get the words out at first and just cried. He finally said those ugly words. In April of 2017, I saw Stepfather/step daughter porn and after that started to thing about my step daughter in a sexual way and in November 2017, he masterbated thinking of her.

    November of 2017 I had a major surgery and he took care of me. He did a wonderful job taking care of me. I was home on medical leave the whole month of November and he took time off work to care for me. I don't know when he fit this M to my daughter in... but it just goes to show he was doing this right under my nose and I was too trusting to see it.

    My response at the Full disclosure was interesting. I did not cry. At all. I felt numb. I felt strong. I listened and felt sorry for him, but also felt like... "that's right- you cry... you remember how this feels so you don't do it again!".

    The therapist asked me how I felt after hearing that and I said "there's nothing I didn't already know and I hope he's telling it all, but he could lie to you as well, and you don't realize what a good liar he is"... something like that. He asked me if I want a lie detector test and I said no... I don't believe in their accuracy, they aren't accurate and those who have done them aren't satisfied so NO, no lie detector test. He could look up ways to get around lie detector tests and I believe he could calm himself enough while lying that it wouldn't detect a lie. He's had YEARS of practice. He doesn't miss a beat while telling a lie.

    Then the therapist said that usually after Full disclosure there is a period of separation to process and heal. I said, we are already doing that to a more full extent since I moved (3 weeks ago).

    He asked what I needed from my husband at this point.

    I said "I'm hungry and I need food. He can buy me dinner." (I had worked all day and had a tiny lunch and no breakfast). I had him take me for Thai and Pie.

    I wonder how many SO's after Full Disclosure feel hungry after.... most would be nauseous or puking after hearing the Full disclosure I think.
    I know I don't fit the mold.

    And talking about not fitting the mold:
    Apparently to earn my trust back, he is supposed to be honest, empathetic and consistent and then magically the trust will be restored.

    Consistency: Well, the problem is that he appeared to be all those things before Dday. In fact, he was so consistent, it was almost annoying.... he would say or text "Good morning beautiful" every damn morning... and every evening after getting off work "Hi cutie, Off work". He would get home at the same time every day, there were no holes of where he has been. He was almost robotic... getting up every morning and reading his Bible, like clockwork. Doing his morning core work and stretches. He is a man of consistent habit. Porn included... I guess.

    Empathy: That is the word people, including his family would use to describe this man. He is so thoughtful, empathetic, the type that visits his grandparents and service oriented, doing nice things for people. I'd come home from work and vent and he LISTENED and empathized. He would say thoughtful things that made me feel he really heard me.

    Then we have Honesty... He would say to my face "I'm being honest with you." looking me right in the eyes and giving me hugs saying "I'm protecting our relationship"... the reason I would ask about his porn use is just because he would sometimes say that he feels like he would fail someday and look at porn again... but then also told me he hadn't seen it since before we were together in a committed relationship... So he'd "be honest" with his feelings enough that I'd think he was honest with everything.... because he was admitting to the weakness of the "pull" to look at porn was there sometimes, he would say that he would absolutley tell me if he slipped and looked at porn, all along he was not only slipping but plummeting.... for YEARS.

    So these three elements are what builds trust? They were in place from my perspective. I will not be able to use those to gauge if I can trust him again. They are null and void with his past.

    So I told him he will have to find new elements that builds trust... those three aren't going to do it. He has a lot of work ahead of him if he wants me.

    I want to have hope. I just don't see how to trust him again, I don't know how to get over the daughter thing and I can't see my daughter feeling comfortable around him again.

    I guess the next step will be that he will sit down with my daughter and me, and make a true apology to her face and explain what he is doing to fix himself.

    Then he gets to do the same for his two kids.

    Meanwhile, I am in a safe place to continue to heal. I will continue to try to enjoy life and hope things will fall into place the way that they are meant to be.

    A few friends want to set me up with "the perfect guy for me"...
    Nope, not the least bit interested. In fact, THAT makes me nauseous.
     
  2. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I’m going to get a belly button piercing and maybe a nose piercing. And a tatoo. And I want a motorcycle. Do you think maybe I’m acting out?
     
  3. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I didn’t pierce or tattoo anything and didn’t buy a motorcycle.

    I went on a weekend trip to the beach (2 hours away) with my husband.
    We relaxed, enjoyed food and drink, avoided triggers and hiked 6 miles down 1000 feet and up again, we had sex and talked.

    He told me he can feel that I’m not intimate with him. I don’t hold his hand or have cuddle moments, I don’t sit close... when we had sex it was “animalistic”. I’m very different than I was before DDay. I’m usually very physical, huggy kissy, flirty with him... but I can’t right now. It’s not to punish him, it’s that he’s a stranger and I’m not comfortable with him- There’s not much trust there. I won’t say there’s no trust. I have said that I would trust him with my life but I can’t trust him with my heart. It bothers him that I am not intimate with him and he says he needs that intimacy. Our conversation ended with us realizing that we can’t really give each other what each other needs right now. It was sad. I also pointed out that at least he gets animalistic sex because many of the wives on Nofap are not having any sex with their husbands.

    He also vented his frustration with my move of legal separation...And the fact that I say that I’m not committed to him and he’s not committed to me. He wonders why we don’t just get divorced then. I told him if he wants to sign the papers for divorce he’s welcome to. It’s just a piece of paper to me. The commitment comes from the heart and I don’t want to commit to somebody that I don’t even know or trust. He doesn’t want divorce. I think he was just trying to understand where I was coming from. And after our conversation I think he understood more. He admitted to being selfish still and voiced that I am in a situation where I can’t be intimate because of him and his addiction.

    Right now for my emotional safety I do need the freedom to flee. I need to be able to just sign a paper and be done if that’s what I choose. I am wondering if divorce would be better though. Because then it would definitely be a fresh start if we did decide to get back together. But I don’t think I would ever marry him again. I can see myself not getting married to anybody ever again. I do want a close intimate relationship with somebody who is my best friend and can do all the adventurous things I do with me and I want a sexual relationship that’s more than just “Amimalistic”. But at this point in my healing I just can’t see committing so fully ever again.

    ???? Maybe that will change as I heal more????

    It’s a little bit weird to see my husband get heated and emotional. He’s usually so even keel and I know this is probably part of him processing his emotions instead of running to his addiction. And it’s good. I want him to be able to do that. But it’s weird for me… I don’t know how to handle exactly. It catches me offguard.
    I’m so used to just him agreeing with me to my face and then I guess he went behind my back and fapped his emotions away... so I’m glad he’s working his recovery. But now he’s more of... I don’t know the word.... an asshole??? than I’m used to. Not saying this is a bad thing.

    I don’t know. Those are my thoughts for today.
     
  4. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Today it's been 8 months since Dday. Yesterday I read my daughter's amends letter from my husband.. WITHOUT CRYING.. Could it be I'm healing? I had been stalling for a couple weeks with it in my possession, afraid to read it because I was so scared it would trigger me back to Day one again, but it didn't. My daughter knew I had the letter and last night she said... "it's my letter, why do you need to read it first?".... I realized she needed it for her own betrayal trauma, and I was being selfish to hold on to it for my own fears... After I read it I offered it to her and then she said "Maybe tomorrow night, I have a lot to do tomorrow." I knew she felt fear as I did too. So tonight I will sit with her while she reads it. It's a good letter that shows he really knows the consequences of what he has done to her personally. It's a disclosure and an apology. He wrote one for me too which he read out loud to me, crying throughout the 7 pages... I didn't cry at my letter either.

    I think I'm healing... I'm in my own little house, doing my own thing, working on my own recovery. I don't have as much money, but I have peace. I think I made a good choice in removing myself from him for a time. I don't know the future still. I look at this time as time to date MYSELF. To love myself and get to know myself. It's a good time.
     
  5. ShotDunyun

    ShotDunyun Fapstronaut

    I just want to reply to this. I too find it very harmful that specialists recommend and encourage PMO. Doctors never ask you if you PMO a lot when you tell them that you are tired all the time and all your health studies are just fine. I wouldn't be surprised if those therapists are porn addicts as well. It's scary if you think about it, professionals encouraging to do what its harming you in the first place
     
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  6. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    SET BACK... ugh.

    My daughter is now feeling the effects of the amends letter that my husband wrote to her (she read Friday night). She's angry, in pain, she cried and feels "like there is a thick piece of glass between her and everyone else" including me. She can't eat, she's nauseous. She's in emotional trauma. Seeing her pain triggers me back to earlier days of my betrayal trauma recovery. I feel myself getting super angry again, wanting to break shit and needing to expend energy... feeling ansty.

    I need to be strong and be there for my daughter. She has been delaying healing with avoidance since July when I told her that my husband fantasized about her. This letter is forcing feelings, which is good but hard. Really hard.

    And today, I feel like there's not much hope at all for my husband and me to be together even though I still love him dearly and he's working his recovery strong. This is just pure torture. I can't subject my daughter to feeling pain and discomfort with the man I'm with. Porn addiction is so destructive. It destroyed our family.
     
  7. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    Your presence is always a present.
    Sometimes that's all you can do
     
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  8. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Ok SHE'S GOT THIS!!

    I'm so incredible thankful in this moment. My daughter stayed up into the morning and wrote a letter in response to my husband's (her step dad's) amends letter.
    The reason I'm thankful is because she is strong. Her letter was full of self defense, standing up for herself. She is not a victim and I LOVE that. I cried as she read me the letter just feeling so thankful she is who she is and that she is my daughter. She sets him straight in the letter on some assumptions he had (this amends letter was something he did on his own with a book called "Being Worthy of her Trust"... (I think that's what it's called). It is an exercise in empathy, and it has him place himself in the shoes of his wife (which he did with my amends letter)... and then I asked him to do it for all of our kids, but a modified version because it's meant for the wife.

    So today I feel like she's going to be ok. She's healing. I wish I could have healed in the way she is from my uncle ... it was very much the same situation. This uncle, a man that knew me as a small child who I looked up to, enjoyed his company, he filled that place of a father, taught me to drive, had conversations about chastity, he appeared to be such a good loving man, until he came into the room I was sleeping... naked with a boner, I rolled over and pretended I was asleep, scared to death...and then later he cornered me said some disturbing things about my body and grabbed my boobs, I was 17. Thank God my daughter never felt uncomfortable from my husband... (until she knew what was in his head). My mom also had stuff happen to her by this man (her brother in law)... so I told my mom about it, she told me to keep it a secret and just stay away from him... she said "Don't break my sister's heart" (by telling her)... this was WRONG! He needed help. I needed help. She needed help, his wife needed help. My uncle ended up cheating on my aunt later in life. What he did scarred me for life.

    My daughter will carry a scar from my husband, but at least she's able to talk about it, work through it and heal.
    We spent the day in Portland today, "shopping therapy". We got coffee and walked down the rainy streets entering boutiques and buying cute things for our house like little plants and candles... LOVE that girl.
     
  9. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    In reading my last post, NOPE, my daughter is in pain...

    My husband is doing as well as I could ask on recovery, on his own, I'm not doing a thing. He reports to me what he's doing:
    Seeing professional sex addiction therapist regularly
    Attending FMO (For Men Only) sexually integrity issues with his church
    Professional Online group counseling
    Reading book after book about addiction, betrayal trauma, how to earn trust back, etc.
    Watching Podcasts about Affair recovery.
    Did the Full Disclosure without any suprises.
    Wrote an amends letter to me.
    Wrote an amends letter to my daughter.
    Wrote an amends letter to his daughter.
    Wrote an email taking complete responsibility to his x-wife about his porn use and their failed marriage.

    He is succeeding. He's earning trust back. I'm so very proud of him. I spend time with him, hiking, talking, not "dating" but just feeling things out... and sometimes sex (but sadly I still have to have vodka), walls are still up too much.

    My daughter and his daughter still do not want to see him.

    (Brief history) Been together for 7 years, married 4, have 4 kids (2 mine, 2 his), beautifully blended family that we have worked very hard on. Dday was Feb 5th 2017- My husband admitted to watching porn (something I said was intollerable before we got married and he agreed to), when I asked him what genre's, among many, they included teen and step father/daughter, when I asked him if he ever thought of my daughter in a sexual way, he admitted 4 times and MO'd one time thinking about her touching herself. (she was age 17-18 at that time). He has not been sexual with any person since we've been together, it's only in his head (fantasizing). My daughter adored him, she's known him since she was 11. She looked up to him so much because she had issues with her biological dad. They were very close and she considered him one of her best supports.

    I went to a counseling session and I talked a lot about my husband's recovery and how that is going... the counselor asked, how is your daughter? I didn't really know because I had been avoidant. 1. My daughter blocks me when I ask how she is doing in that way. 2. I'm afraid to hear what she has to say because it could change the way I am hopeful about a life with my husband.

    -------But that night after counseling:

    My daughter told me that she doesn't understand how I can still love him and spend time with him when he had those thoughts about her. She said- you spending time with him feels like betrayal.-------and she sobbed. Then she mentioned that she wants me to be happy and maybe bowing out of my life would be good so that I could be with him, because she feels like she will never be able to even face him again.

    NOOOOOO. I can't have my daughter feeling like this. SHE is my priority.

    After the conversation with my daughter, I texted my husband and told him "she feels betrayed and I need space". He understands. He knows I have to put her first.

    I want it all, I want my husband who I love. I want my daughter to feel loved by me and not feel betrayed.

    I can't have it all.
     
  10. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    Ha I know the feeling!! I’ve never had anything pierced but ears nor tattoos but for the first couple weeks after discovery I really contemplated one.
     
  11. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    A week after discovery we went on a road trip after some hesitation on my part. ( It was already planned and accommodations paid for, I needed a change of scenery and traveling alone with two babies and a toddler is torture.) Husband did the driving I put on my noise canceling headphones, listen to a book about betrayal trauma, and iced him out for most of the 14 hour drive. Hmm maybe unnecessary amount of backstory...

    Anyway on this trip, in my emotional artsy darkness I connected with some magpies we saw during a pit stop. I got a few good photos. Since then I’ve researched meanings of magpies as spirit animals and it has really interesting duality.

    So if I were to get a tattoo it would be of a magpie in flight. Euither emerging from or flying towards my heart, on ribs below breast.

    But I’m hesitant to make any drastic changes so I kind of want to do a painting of an alternate version of myself. Magpie tattoo. On a shelf with a brace around my waist like a porcelain doll— for all the years he had me neglected, on the shelf. Hair chopped for I feel like he is the Delilah to my Sampson and his betrayal has gutted my power. The brainstorm goes on. I feel like I’m in and out of denial so maybe I should force myself to do this painting. The process should be therapeutic and the outcome could serve as constant reminder of the wound and that he better not slip up.
     
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  12. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I have connected with some Koi fish at the pond that I always visit during lunch break since DDay. There is one Koi, his name is Mad Max. He has been through a lot. He’s yellow, missing a lot of scales along his back, his eyes are clouded.
    There’s also a crow that follows me on my walk. I feel like they know my heart was broken, and they were there for me. So maybe I will incorporate them into my tattoo. But of course I would like to get a mermaid.
     
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  13. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    Sweet animal friends. I dig the rhyme in your username. What drew you to the mermaid? Any particular symbolism? (They are, of course, cool.)
     
  14. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    I too connected with some Koi at the zoo a couple weeks ago. I was actually feeling pretty dark that day and it was calming to watch them swim. Here’s one of the photos I took. A couple friends suggest I paint it.
     

    Attached Files:

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  15. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    Yes There are a few different symbolisms. One of them is that I scuba dive... that’s the closest thing to a mermaid. The other part is a little bit dark... I won’t go into that tonight.
     
  16. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    My husband posted this- I’m adding it to my journal.

    So we are “paused”. I asked for space because I can’t have my daughter feeling betrayed.

    He calls it “paused” so he can focus on himself.

    That’s fine- he can see it that way- but this IS a separation in my eyes.
    It has to be. He made the choices that forced me into the separation.

    I still love him but it’s a tortured state of mind because I cannot be with him. There’s a part of me that wishes I didn’t love him. That’s the sad truth.

    It appears he has come a long way in almost 9 months (DDay), but these are words. Nicely written words. He has always written beautifully, every December 24th when he writes every family member a beautiful personalized letter about how much they are worth and how proud he is of them. Letters that each us, me and his children including his stepdaughter cherished. But just a few weeks prior he admitted that had the fantasy about her, MO’d to thoughts of her.

    So... I have a hard time Even though it seems as if he is genuine.
    He is a master of deceit... and I don’t trust. And even if I do dare to trust what does it matter? My daughter feels betrayed by my loving him.

    I feel deeply depressed tonight- even though I just had counseling a few hours ago. It’s dark.


     
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  17. Vixen

    Vixen Fapstronaut

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    I feel for you. That’s a hard situation and I totally understand feeling attached despite logic. I too am traveling in order to be away from my husband a while. The lying is really hard to stomach and the truth is hard to trust. You aren’t alone. Sounds like you are making practical steps. Stay strong.
     
  18. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I was worried I was codependent but in speaking with my counselor tonight, she says she doesn't see codependency. This matters to me greatly for some reason. I have so much self doubt because I believed the lies for so long. I don't trust my judgement and I don't trust my gut, it's all screwed up because of how I was reassured so much by him when my gut tried to tell me something was off. I'm very damaged, but at least I'm not codependent.

    I have made practical steps, I'm legally separated to protect myself financially, separated physically (in my own house with my daughter) and now I have to separate with more space and I suppose the next separation would be separation of my heart to his, this just kills my soul. Aside from his addiction, he was so perfect for me.
     
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  19. Trappist

    Trappist Fapstronaut

    Tough row to hoe...


    You are doing such smart and good work.
     
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  20. BetrayedMermaid

    BetrayedMermaid Fapstronaut

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    I know I'm doing the right thing here... but it's so hard and I'm so sad. I miss our life together, I miss him. I miss our adventures together. I miss our family as a whole. I miss my step kids.

    He says that the fog has completely cleared and he can see the mass destruction his addiction has caused.

    I think that he wouldn't have had the motivation to change if he had not crossed the step daughter fantasizing line, because this is precisely what caused me to run and he lost everything. If I had not run, he might not have gone this far recovering, who knows. He says he will make that 5-6% to a year and beyond. He intends to never relapse because he now has the tools to deal with emotions. I'm happy for him, but I'm so devastated.

    One thing I said to him in the beginning is that he will probably fix himself for his next relationship which isn't at all fair. I want the fixed new man. But he has made it impossible for me and him with my daughter.

    Tragic love story.
     
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