My list of hurt...

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Johns80, Jan 22, 2018.

  1. Johns80

    Johns80 Fapstronaut

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    My SO’s therapist said it would be helpful if I listed all the things that keep coming up as hurt and things I’m stuck on (forgiveness wise). Here’s my list. Any one else relate to any of these?

    -The lying, hiding, deceitful behavior.

    · Bringing outside threats and insecurity directly into our relationship when he is supposed to be a protector.

    · Telling me the phrases “I don’t need anything else, I have you.”, “I’m not looking at anything else.”, “I won’t do it again.”, “I don’t need that stuff.”, “I wouldn’t be able to do it again, I’d be sick about it.” all while continuing to lie. He continues to use these phrases and they make me angry because I no longer believe them. He was able to look me directly in the eye and lie so many times I don’t know how I am ever supposed to believe him again.

    · He continued engaging with pornography after being told and knowing how horrible it made me feel and how damaging it could be to our relationship.

    · The feeling of betrayal and uncertainty of our future knowing that he would have continued moving our relationship forward (living together, marriage) under false pretenses and lies until I eventually found out too late.

    · The things he looked at. He is aroused by the degrading and revolting sex acts of strangers. I’m disgusted, have lost respect for him, and do not understand why he chose those specific things to look at. I cannot get them out of my mind or stop comparing myself to them.

    · Despite my efforts (never turning down sex, predominately being the one initiating sex, going to the gym, lingerie, waxes, toys, being adventurous, nude photographs) to keep him interested he would chose to masturbate to strangers. He says that he respects me too much to think of doing those sex acts with me, all while disrespecting me by being lustful with other women. I am hurt he looked at other women and used those images to masturbate instead of images of me. I now have feelings of doubt that he can enjoy making love to me when detestable pornographic sex acts are what have turned him on.

    · The frequency per week spent giving himself to porn instead of me, which in turn damaged our intimacy because he would avoid being intimate with me, often by rejecting me, to cover up porn induced erectile dysfunction or the fact that he had already found release earlier that day. This has led to serious self-esteem issues and anxiety. His pornography use desensitized him to being fully aroused by me, a real person, and caused impotence. This led me to believe it was me and my fault. He chose to go to pornography multiple times per week instead of being intimate with me, a willing partner. He has told me that he is not a sexual person, don’t have a high sex drive or desire much sex, but he was getting off to pornography multiple times per week instead of being intimate with me that many times per week.

    · I am afraid of him being alone without myself present because of pornography use and because of instances of lying to cover up hanging out with another woman. This has affected my work, hobbies, and relationships with friends and family because my time and focus is on the anxiety this causes. I am not comfortable being in this “warden” mode and am extremely uneasy being in a relationship without that level of trust.
     
  2. Sadgirl

    Sadgirl Moderator Assistant Staff Member Moderator Assistant

    These are all really difficult and heartbreaking realizations. I think many of us here can relate. ((hugs))
     
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  3. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    Absolutely how I feel.
    It really is just as bad as cheating with an actual person.
    My ex cheated all the time, I was young and stupid and stayed with him 4 years.
    My current SO is a PA and I find myself feeling exactly like that betrayed 20 year old I once was.
    I hate it.
    I miss being able to fully trust him. I miss feeling good enough.
    It seems a lot of the time they don't understand how much pain it actually causes.
     
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  4. PA's absolutely don't understand how much pain it causes SO's ... certainly while PA's are doing it, thinking it's no big deal -- but even after a major confrontation like a DDay .. it's hard for us to understand what betrayal trauma really is.

    Now, hopefully PA's read and educate themselves about porn addiction and the poison that it is to their relationship and the pain/anguish it causes their SO's. But that first involves being able to look past our culture's stance of "porn is no big deal" / "all guys watch porn" / etc.

    I am sorry that you are hurting so much @Katrina Rose
     
  5. Johns80

    Johns80 Fapstronaut

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    I get enraged with the “It’s no big deal, all guys do it” conversation. I can’t even go on Reddit because it’s so pro porn. Anytime a women attempts to post in the relationship sub or the women’s advice sub that she’s bothered by porn use she is absolutely flamed. Oddly enough it’s mostly by other women telling her she’s insecure, it shouldn’t bother her, to look the other way. Or by men saying all guys do it, it’s their right to engage in porn, she must be a prude. And the alarming number of people saying it’s HARMLESS. Believe me, I’ve done a ton of soul searching and questioning what’s wrong with me that I can’t be okay with it. I always come back to in my deep heart and soul I am not, never will be okay with it because it’s NOT harmless. I could write a novel on the reasons why and none of them include religion, being a prude, or being against sex.
     
  6. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    I just had the ultimatum talk and got that response. He uses it daily and is in absolute denial that It's a problem.
    I talked to him about PIED and he's convinced it's bullshit and isn't a real thing.
    He did say he'd stop because he'd do anything for our relationship, but he's apparently been like this his whole life so that's going to be hard.
    I've been in relationships with normal porn use, like a few times a month, and everything was fine. Every day is not normal, especially when your partner is being neglected and PIED is involved.
     
  7. Johns80

    Johns80 Fapstronaut

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    What finally got through to my partner was reading articles on the connection between porn and sex trafficking, child pornography, and violence against women. He has sisters and a daughter and I think it hit too close to home. He said he felt disgusted and didn’t want to be part of that dark world. He couldn’t live with himself knowing his clicks were contributing to ad funding which directly and indirectly supports sex trafficking. He said he had no clue about the dark side. Also learning that a lot of p is women who are drugged, raped, or are being filmed without consent made him really bothered by it. But...trust takes forever to build back up. He’s five months clean and even though he’s stated his new views I’m convinced he’ll go back to it.
     
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  8. Loveless

    Loveless Fapstronaut

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    @Johns80, @Katrina Rose,
    I'm afraid I relate to everything you are talking about. My SO won't even acknowledge the ethical problems of the P industry, saying that these are "relative." Trust has been broken in my marriage. I do not know if and when it will return. I have not forgiven and I don't know if I ever can.
    There are truly degrading images, things that are not even in the vast categories of porn but are found on niche "mondo-bizarro" sites, that I have seen in my own home. One of these mondo videos was downloaded on my birthday. I discovered it on the computer when my husband was acting fake nice to me. Do you believe that he downloaded this filth, then in shame afterward was baby-talking and being ingratiating, hugging and kissing me in the most fake and stupid way. I knew he was acting and trying to cover something up. My suspicions led to me to the downloads folder, where I saw the most revolting "porn" in my life. This nausea-inducing shit was what he had been calling "porn"? Never in my imagination would I have thought such vile images would be in my home and in my husband's list of desires.
    I have never been so broken, down to the point that I realized I do not care about my marriage anymore and am ready to walk out the door. I am hurt. I am disgusted. I am angry. I do not see my husband the way I used to, and I'm afraid the change is permanent. I made a list of relationship dealbreakers, and read it to my SO when I told him that I had given up on our relationship and radical changes need to made for me to even consider staying. He crosses any of the lines I've drawn--I am gone. To his credit, he is making changes. But both of you know that these current changes in behavior need to be long-standing before we can even talk about them as real changes and a solid foundation from which we can move on.
    I do think that many men and women have bought into the idea that porn is harmless, or even beneficial as a means of self-discovery. I call bullshit. The number of people on this forum trying to stop because of PIED, or broken trust, failing marriages or an escalating interest in extreme stuff that scares even PAs into sobriety, all of this shows that it hurts lots of people and it hurts their relationships.
    My SO is two months clean. He will go back to it. But we won't go through this again. That time I'll leave.
    My heart goes out to both of you. We never imagined that this would be our lives...
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2018
  9. Katrina Rose

    Katrina Rose Fapstronaut

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    It's sad all around.
    I've never been ok with it, but up until this relationship and seeing a full blown PA, I was able to deal with it.
    He says it's not hurting us. My mindset is. Apparently I'm closed minded.
    He said tp stop making him feel like he had a problem and there was something wrong with him.
    I asked him if an alcoholic was still an alcoholic if he lived alone in the woods.
    If course they are.
    Just as a PA is a PA even if they aren't directly hurting someone. He'd still be a PA if he were single but he doesn't acknowledge the problem. I'm hoping he'll keep his word and TRY at the very least.
    I told him maybe there's a girl out there who would be perfectly ok with the situation but that girl isn't me.
    He said he doesn't want me to be that girl.
    He's always been honest with me.
    I just hope the truth stops hurting.
     
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  10. Merovingian

    Merovingian Fapstronaut

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    Easy Mode
    Just leave your SO's and get a NEW SO
    You'll be heartbroken for 1 maybe 2 years tops
    They, on the other hand, might get the mental car crash needed for real change

    Honestly, by staying with them you're only keeping their PA going, they haven't experienced a rock-bottom moment hard enough to facilitate the change they need..

    DUMP YOUR SO and go find a man that will treat you the way you want to be treated instead of hugging this damn porcupine of a dude expecting it to feel warm and cuddly.

    And before I get all the "But, I love him!" crap, you have to understand a PA's outlook on women's feelings isn't all that in tune with reality, they expect you to be the submissive "Give me more, Daddy!" women, they pleasure themselves to on a daily basis.
     
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  11. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    That’s one option.
     
  12. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    I can totally relate to each and every one of these. The thing that hurts the most for me, a part from him getting off on images of other women, is the broken trust. I am triggered by anything and everything. I cannot walk the street with him since he will look at every woman, and if I say something he will get mad and call me jealous and insecure, every time I leave the house to go to work, I have images of him doing that sh.t while I am away. Every time there is a scantly clad woman on tv (and we all know that that is on a daily basis in whatever the fu..k is shown on that thing) I get triggered, every time he watches youtube, I wander what he is watching... it is horrible to feel such hurt every day, every moment, and realize he will probably keep doing it even if I died right there and right in front of him.
     
  13. Johns80

    Johns80 Fapstronaut

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    Well according to society all men look at porn and we have no hope of finding one that doesn’t.
     
  14. Loveless

    Loveless Fapstronaut

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    This is so horrible. My SO said the same thing. That porn was only a problem because I made it one. That I should stop "shaming" him for having an interest in sex. He said these things to me after admitting to being addicted and escalating up to watching things that the vast majority of people would find repulsive rather than arousing. I am sorry that you are being criticized liked this. He is projecting his own shame about what he is doing onto you.

    This is a terrible feeling. One day my SO quickly shut a browser window after I walked into the room and I got triggered really bad. I had seen him do that motion so many times... I am so sorry that you are going through this. The anxiety that accompanies this pain, the racing thoughts...I have been there.
     
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  15. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    This "flipping it back on you and getting mad" BS is called Gaslighting and it's a form of abuse
    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...11-warning-signs-gaslighting-in-relationships

    I'm sorry you are going through this.
     
  16. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    Yes it is horrible, I feel lost and sad, but also so angry. Thank you for your words.
     
  17. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    Kenzi, my SO is so good in gaslighting, he does that all the time. Everything is my fault. It is a problem because I make it problem. It is I that am jeopardizing our relationship . Ah and the best one, I cannot stand that there are other females in the world, it is something wrong with me. It is always me. Never him.
     
  18. Kenzi

    Kenzi Fapstronaut

    My SO used to be good at gaslighting too.
    In fact, occasionally, very rarely I notice he falls into the old pattern and I go "wait a minute... That was a gaslight!"
    But it' nnot your fault.
    It's not.
    You Have to turn it around.
    Anytime he turns it on You....
    You have to flip it back one More time.
    It's like it stops their brains a second because they aren't expecting it to come back around another time.
    It's the best way I know to defend yourself..
    And then when they are stumped a second... You rationalize.
    And they are forced to think instead of thinking of another combatant comment.
    Unfortunately it's sort of a game in the beginning.
    They need therapy.
    It's emotional extortion.
    That's what they are doing.
    Some of the PAs are extremely good at it, to the point of no empathy whatsoever.
    It's horrible.
    This is not your fault.
    It' tthe addict brain.
    You are entitled to your emotions.
    Please don't forget this.
     
  19. Penelope

    Penelope Fapstronaut

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    How do you flip it back? I tried but it made it worse. Do you have a good advice?
     
  20. From a PA's perpective here -- you have to get their attention .. you have to shake-their-world until they get it.

    What that looks like could look different for every relationship...for me, it was a combination of effectively separating the marriage mixed with my wife of 20 years going completely cold/numb towards me -- I felt like I was invisible to her at times.

    THAT shook my world! That made me almost go mad/insane. That got my attention and led me to begin real recovery (after about 5.5 months of recovery-that-hadn't-really-started-yet).
     
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