P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Yeah, I've often wondered about this, in more than one way:

1) My father has always been a heavy porn user - magazines in the 70's etc - did this pre-dispose me to want to look at pictures of naked women (which I remember doing at the age of 4!)?

2) If I had kids I'm sure that all the PMO related addiction I have suffered from would get passed on to them via epigenetic effects, not to mention the negative health effects I've suffered, which I'm sure would translate in to lower levels of vitality and general health. Fortunately I don't want kids, but you've got to wonder.

 

So you had a very heavy problem with weed? What would you think if someone told you it's all in your head? He tells you weed addiction and withdrawal does not exist and you should just move on and you will be fine if you stop thinking about. 60% of people who smoke weed, will tell you there is no such thing as weed addiction, there is no withdrawal and it's perfectly fine to smoke and makes you a better person without any consequences. A lot of heavy weed users and weed proponents like Joe Rogan will tell you this. What would your reaction be if someone told you the problems weed caused you were all in your head?

And you don't deny PAWS? Then don't say it only takes 6 months to feel better and just stop thinking about it. PAWS is known to even last for years in some cases. Just because you felt better after 6 months this does not mean it applies to all of us. You're using the psychologist's fallacy here.

This forum is for weed addicts who are suffering from PAWS. They can suffer for months and have somewhat the same symptoms as we have, even after a year of abstinence.

https://www.uncommonforum.com/viewforum.php?f=10&sid=c61bf5163d3f1dfd19114e0035f3ceda

I know you mean it well and advice us not to dwell on PAWS. For some of us this forum actually helps understand what's going on with us. If someone thinks this forum is holding them back, then they should leave this forum. We PAWS sufferers actually come here to find acknowledgement and comfort and can help us deal with the harsh situation we are in and are not alone in the suffering.

 

You are misquoting me over and over again and contradicting yourself with the accusations you are making against me.

Please keep in mind im trying to help.

I've never said "it's all in your head"

There is more to addiction and recovery than just neurotransmitters and I think people cant accept that. Previously I would of had the same attitude to somone like me saying the shit that I'm saying now, so I do get it.

I'm going to remind you again, I did a streak of 1 year, I did a streak of 10 months and I have done multiple 6 month streaks. I had the same beliefs as all of you and I would of not believed somone like me saying the shit I'm saying now.

At no point did I say "it takes 6 months for PAWS to go away" i just used the 6 month number because that's a decent fucking chunk of your life to keep coming on a forum every day to keep ruminating about feeling shit.

Do you think when somone quits smoking cigarettes and they sit on a quit smoking forum for the next 2 years talking about how shit they feel every day is going to help them move past cigarettes? Researching nicotine PAWS and telling them self they feel awful? Reminding themselves of cigarettes every day continously for 2+ years.

I challenge any of you to go on any mental health forum for depression , anxiety, mania etc. You will see people on here that suffer what we would all call PAWS symptoms. And no I'm not saying everyone here is mentally ill. Im just making the point that the brain is very fucking powerful.

In many medical school / university's there is a portion of the class who will take on symptoms of whatever disease or disorder the teacher is lecturing them about. It is a common phenomenon that has been around ever since the creation of medical university's.

I'm not saying PAWS do not exist, I'm not saying it's all in people's heads. What I am saying is that people are prolonging symptoms and not moving on with there lives which completely HALTS or SLOWS down recovery. There are some people here who are definitely addicted to the forum and can't face letting go and moving on.

 

@whysolong I appreciate the highlighting the risk of somatic disorder of some sort. There is definitely a risk that some individuals can exacerbate there problems, and definitely at some point the whole ordeal needs to be let go of. In fact I'm pretty sure that's one of the final gates everyone must pass through at their end of the journey - letting go completely of their identity around a recovery addict, the addiction itself and everything around it, so they can move onto live a normal healthy life.

I'm impressed by the number of streaks you did, but I'm confused to why you aren't attributing all those long streaks to your healing, or maybe you are, and I'm misinterpreting your full stance.

From my view, you seem like a person who went through a lengthy PAWS, made a full recovery via tons of long streaks, and now are ready to put the whole ordeal behind you, kudos to you.

I think you could give a lot of helpful advice and inspiration to those still battling PAWS, because essential motivation and inspiration are the two main factors to make it through. Anecdotes about the difference between being in PAWS vs fully recovered, how the relationship to social anxiety changes as you fully recover, how normal sleep starts to return etc etc in detail; would all provide great value to those still in recovery.

Perhaps it's hard to remember what it was actually like; my anxiety has improved drastically since the early days and even for me it's hard to really articulate and remember how bad it actually was having panic attacks on the way to get my haircut

 

Each time after I fell off those streaks I then binged for 6 months to 1 year.

I really do believe we've got this all wrong and people can't think outside of the information that we've been given.

Rather than me explain the ordeal, where I am now, what i went through etc it would be much easier if people just asked me questions on whatever they want to know.

 

Okay sure;

Did you ever feel like a low level tension or stress throughout your system, akin to low level fight or flight. Did this ever translate into social anxiety? The feeling of dread leading up to the interaction with people, the flairing of this constant low level fight or flight into more of a panicky feeling, that would peak just at the start of the interaction, and start to tail of, but never ever fully get to a fully relaxed state. That is to say a constant central nervous stress/low level fight or flight.

And if yes to the above, at what point did it fully go away to the point you could laugh about it in retrospect. Or even better detail how the recovery of the above phenomena

NB. for what its worth I think this constant central nervous stress is what most if not all PAWS symptoms relate to; sleeping, anxiety, digestive issues, low test etc etc

 

Well I just find your posts a bit contradictory and oversimplified. I know you're trying to help and all. Good you're feeling better now. I'm happy for you btw. For some people this forum helps then to know whats going on with them, for others it can increase their suffering. It's personal preference. I have been on nofap streaks since august 2013, used many substances and had many different withdrawals, also had been periods were I felt completely healed during long streaks. I know exactly how my body reacts to dozens of supplemens, dozens of drugs and PMO. For me it's PAWS caused by porn. Not because of psychosomatic suggestion or hypochondria. I rest my case.

 

So when i was able to let go and accept I'm alright , stop caring, I noticed gradually I was fully in the moment more, like I was focusing fully on tasks, the subconscious chatter was dying down massively, it's a very very peculiar feeling when you've been stuck in fight or flight for years and it can actually be quite disturbing because it feels so alien. When genuine stress does come up i feel like it does its thing then passes without ruminating on it for the next few hours.

A massive part of my recovery was education about the brain and what it can do to you, how false beliefs and false information can shift your physiology.

If I didn't answer your question properly please let me know and ask again.

 

Again you're kind of not being fair with what I'm saying.

I'm not saying it's pure hypochondria or pure psycomatic suggestion.

Porn PAWS are real. What I'm saying is people are halting there recovery. It's literally coming to a complete stop.

And yeah I get it does sound a bit too simple to be true but that's probably why no one does it? I didn't just say one day "i don't care anymore so I know I'll get better now"

 

It's okay, I think perhaps we have had drastically different experiences in and of recovery or PAWS, and this is probably why you find it hard to relate to what it is me and others are going through.

 

I doubt it. Go through my post history before my recovery. You'll see I was going through absolute hell. I even quit my job in April because my brain fog and anxiety was through the roof.

 

Understood, maybe a misunderstanding on my part.

So in my original question, could you relate to the anxiety and experience I described - and did this eventually stop for you and in what manner?

 

Kudos for finding inner relieve. I find it inspirational

Also see the theories of epigenetics working for you

thanks for describing this, mate

 

The posts you made were just a little confusing for me tho. To sum up your story:

- You have had PAWS with each long streak
- You found out this forum increases suffering through psychosomatic suggestion
- You left the forum and started thinking different about the situation
- With this new way of living and thinking the symptoms disappeared within 6 months
- You are now completey symptom free and consider yourself healed enough
- Time to move on and start living again

 

Yeah I can completely relate and I know it's not a competition but from what you described there, i would say I was actually worse (everyone here thinks they are worse though )

It was very very gradual, it's not somthing you can consciously control, you need hope and reassurance to down regulate your fight or flight response. Somtimes it's very difficult to work out what is irrational anxiety and what is hysterical unjustified anxiety for absolutley no reason. The other morning I nearly got hit by a lorry and it gave me mad anxiety for about 40 minutes, I would say that's justified reasonable anxiety, plus I had just finished a fucking big coffee which never helps.

When you are not in fight or flight you will know about it, it is very fucking obvious because it feels so alien to you and some people will go looking for things to put them back into fight or flight (I realise how ridiculous that sounds but it's true)

 

My current symptoms are lasting too long this time around (headache, sensitivity to sound and light, twitches) should I consult with a neurologist? I'm worried this stuff isn't related to withdrawal symptoms at all.

 

I have read somewhere here to stop ruminating about your symptoms and leave this forum. You will be fine and heal faster.

 

I understand what the user was trying to say with that but these symptoms are lasting longer than last time and there might be some underlying issues, which is why I wanted to know if I should go to a neurologist for this type of issue that has been bothering me nonstop all day for the past 7 days now and I'm currently nearing my 3 month mark of abstinence from pmo. The tiniest of noises are very loud in my ears and most light sources bother my eyes and is often accompanied by strong headaches.

 

You could see a neurologist. Just make sure you don't take any meds without them actually do a MRI and EEG on you.
I have been to a neurologist for the very same symptoms you have (plus many more like orthostatic hypotension, brain zaps, derealization, hypnagogic shocks at night, etc.)
They basically said "there's nothing wrong with you". I said well check me then, they did an MRI and EEG. Nothing abnormal.

They did know these symptoms btw. People who are epileptic have these kind if things, just like people with other neurological problems.

He said it would probably be "in my head".
I have been to psychologists and a neuropsychiatrist.

The neuropsychiatrist finally said this:

"Look. According to your story, symptoms and our diagnostics (very detailed diagnostic proces actually), you have 2 or 3 things that need attention. You must stop your porn addiction immediately if you haven't already, as it is dangerous. Watch your sleep cycles and food intake. Get your lifestyle together, I recommend taking extra care for yourself as if you have real bad ADHD. And maybe you could look if you have any trauma or complex trauma to resolve. Your symptoms are probably a combination of sidetracked neurotransmitters and burned-out nervous system."

It was actually a very long conversation but these words were basically it.

This guy is an atheïst and very specialized in neurophysiology and -psychiatry. He did not even prescribe me any meds.


NoFap and PAWS are very real.

AND

I am now actually trying to implement an "epigenetic-proof", if you will, lifestyle. Step by step.
While also going to a therapeutic coach who helps me basically give my subconscious mind the space to safely resolve stuck emotions (trauma).

Look, we all have to find our way in taking responsibility. Do what you can do with everything that you now know.

And remember, it takes TIME.

 

Go fuck yourself mate