The DOWNSIDE; hormonal changes during male abstinence

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Roasty, Apr 11, 2016.

  1. Roasty

    Roasty Fapstronaut

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    I would like to discuss this here with you. Bear with me on this one.

    It is claimed by many of you that abstinence increases testosterone.
    One user has pointed out that 5-alpha reductase is released during O, which leads to the conversion of testosterone into DHT, which is stronger than testosterone.

    Let's say you're doing this whole nofap deal partly because you want the benefits of testosterone (muscles, etc). So you're not O'ing, so you release less 5-alpha reductase which leads to an accumulation of testosterone and a decrease in DHT, because there is now too little 5-alpha reductase to convert a sufficient amount of testosterone into DHT.
    Okay, the increase in testosterone sounds good... the decrease in DHT - not so much.
    So while you might have a high testosterone level, it effectively causes the opposite effect, because DHT is the active form of testosterone if you will.

    This could also explain the erectile dysfunctions of some users here, because a lack of DHT is associated with ED.

    I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but if my line of thinking is right some of you might do more harm than good by NOT PMO'ing. You're decreasing your DHT, hence you increase your risk for ED, decrease the beneficial effects of testosterone, etc.

    Following quote is from Gur S et al, 2013, Expert Opin Drug Saf, 12(1):81-90
    Clinical trials with 5ARI report prevalence rates of de novo erectile dysfunction of 5 - 9%. Decreased circulating dihydrotestosterone (DHT) resulting from 5ARI use is associated with diminished sexual desire and/or orgasm. The presence of adverse sexual effects is associated with decreased self-esteem, quality of life and ability to maintain an intimate relationship.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23173718

    another thing that might be interesting to know is PFS. PFS is a syndrome caused by a medication against hair loss. The drug is an 5ARI (it inhibits 5-alpha reductase), which helps with hair loss because DHT can damage hair roots and 5ARI's decrease the amount of testosterone converted into DHT. However, the side effects of these drugs include PFS. Symptoms of PFS are decreased libido, lack of reaction to sexual stimulation, impotence, DE, ED, a shrinking penis, shrinking testicles, ejaculatory anhedonia, panic attacks, depression, and the list goes on and on. (contact me if you want the sources, the list is too long to post it here; I'm too lazy)
    while this is a rare condition caused by a 5ARI, the symptoms are caused by the inhibition of 5-alpha reductase, so you might not want to reduce your 5-alpha reductase TOO much by abstaining from climax.

    Of course this is all based on the assumption that what the other user said about 5-alpha reductase release upon climax is correct.
     
  2. about a girl

    about a girl Fapstronaut

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    I am surprised no one replied .. you have some interesting facts here ..
     
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  3. Rav70

    Rav70 Fapstronaut

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    mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but if my line of thinking is right some of you might do more harm than good by NOT PMO'ing. You're decreasing your DHT, hence you increase your risk for ED, decrease the beneficial effects of testosterone, etc.

    No. All the symptoms you mention my boyfriend and countless others had them while actively PMOing.
    Most symptoms subside after then flatline period.
    My boyfriend is cured from DE and his boners are rock hard after 100 days + no PMO.
     
  4. GotWhiskers

    GotWhiskers Fapstronaut

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    No PMO and pure abstinence are different, though. I am abstinent from PMO, but I am sexually active with my partner. We are having the best sex of our relationship, and I am seeing a big improvement in my erections as well. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think the OP is talking about pure abstinence, sex included. I don't know if you and your boyfriend are active through this process, and you don't need to tell me, just something to consider.
     
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  5. Rav70

    Rav70 Fapstronaut

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  6. Roasty

    Roasty Fapstronaut

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    That's a good point. I was talking about 100% abstinence.
    Most people here don't have sex during their challenges as far as I know, but I wonder how they differ from those who have a partner and a functioning sex life. They might have different results and different hormone levels (oxytocin, etc)

    I wish there was more (publicly available) research on the topic of abstinence and porn addiction.
     
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  7. Chef Boy

    Chef Boy Fapstronaut

    The amount of relapses you will cause!

    In all seriousness, some of this makes sense; my dermotologist says DHT causes acne breakouts which explains why stopping PMO has all but cleared my skin after a decade of breakouts.

    I think there's been too many reports of tesosterone-heightened symptoms (increased muscle definition, deeper voice, blah blah) to dismiss Nofap's benefits fully. You're arguing that Nofap results in the opposite of what it preaches and I can't buy into that.
     
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  8. MikeSolo

    MikeSolo Guest

    What a great article written by not a scientist about something that may or may not be true and actually argues for the goodness of masturbation ( on a site where people support each other in trying not to masturbate). Thanks dude. Maybe I'll go tell a bunch of alcoholics that having one glass a wine a day is good for them, I think they'd really appreciate that.
     
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  9. Rav70

    Rav70 Fapstronaut

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    If I recall right, OP is a blogger who caters to sexual fetishes and is on the fence about PMO and MO addiction. Not sure what's going on here.
     
  10. Roasty

    Roasty Fapstronaut

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    @Chef Boy I know, that's what's confusing me. But if you're talking about effects on your body, you must bear the placebo effect in mind. those things might all be caused by your expectations. Maybe you gain more muscles because you work out more, not because you have more DHT. Maybe you get a deeper voice because you subconsciously relax your vocal cords more or use more of your chest area for resonance. I'm just talking about the possibilities here, it's not like I have evidence.

    @MikeSolo I have included my sources, you make up your mind if you want to believe them or not. I have used pubmed to find an article (by a scientist) to back up my ideas. Pubmed is a huge internet platform for scientific articles, textbooks, etc. Sorry if my critical thinking offended you, but maybe a little skepticism would do you good. Besides, a glass of wine is in fact said to be good for your health. Wine contains tannin, which has an adstringend effect on the mucous membrane. This is antibacterial because it deprives the bacteria of the water they need in order to grow. They inhibit inflammations and bleeding and can even be used in treating heavy metal poisoning.
     
  11. MikeSolo

    MikeSolo Guest

    I know a glass of wine can be good. The point was you wouldn't tell an alcoholic that he should be drinking a glass of wine a day because it's good for him. Kind of like telling a group of people who have a problem with masturbation that it's actually good for them. Regardless, take it easy.
     
  12. Jodokus

    Jodokus Fapstronaut

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    when you really want to get to the bottom of it, take a look at monks and studies about them.
     
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  13. Roasty

    Roasty Fapstronaut

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    @MikeSolo but if it's actually not good for them? I didn't want to encourage anyone to go back to their addiction, I'm just thinking maybe neither of the extremes are good (like with anorexia and obesity)
    maybe both are unhealthy and all it takes is being moderate.

    @Jodokus thanks that actually sounds really interesting. I might try to find a documentary about this or maybe an article if I'm not lazy
     
  14. IamSu! Victim of prone

    IamSu! Victim of prone Fapstronaut

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    Didn't mike Tyson and Ali go a couple years abstince and almost knock guys heads of in the ring. I dont remember seeing them go bald either. I think either your "research is wrong" or your making excuses just to justify fapping. Or both
     
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  15. luzer

    luzer Fapstronaut

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    there are people who can not do it moderately so it's better not PMO. if for yourself it is difficult to see that it can have some benefit if you masturbate moderately. But his research actually indicates that it would be good to masturbate at times. I've seen some people say that the thyroid stimulates 147% of stopping 7 days but you have to masturbate before because there is no increase. i don't quote links but is easy seach "pubmed ejaculation and deprivation 147"
     
  16. I don’t doubt this is true. I’ve heard that professional fighters will abstain from sex before a fight. I think there’s science behind it.
     
  17. Paper

    Paper Fapstronaut

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    Well, this is a difficult topic, but at the same time, it is triggerable for some people, because they will start using this topic as an excuse to fap.
     
  18. Dagger323

    Dagger323 Fapstronaut

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    I highly doubt any of these effects are long term, however, even if they are true. I experienced very low libido at the beginning of all my recent streaks but after roughly two weeks my sex drive invariably goes through the roof and my penis becomes rock hard...and I am on hard mode, which means no PMO. Many others that are on hard mode have reported similar effects to what was initially mentioned here but after sufficient time these seem to subside and benefits take over, as if these side effects are merely part of the initial withdrawal process and may spill over somewhat into PAWS. There is simply no doubt in my mind that complete abstinence is necessary for certain individuals at least for a certain amount of time. None of these studies suggest that long term abstinence will produce ongoing symptoms either. If a period of withdrawal symptoms must be toughed out to experience the light at the end of the tunnel then that’s a small price to pay...
     
  19. luzer

    luzer Fapstronaut

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    There are some people doing nofap supported in some studies speaking poorly of pornography related to cognition and stimulation and it seemed to me pseudoscience, although I find other physiological studies connected to testoterone that I could understand.


    I found a ratio of 145.7% increase in testosterone level after 7 days without ejaculation (although it was a study that did not find the total time of completion and there would be more peaks after seven days). Also, these data demonstrate that acute abstinence does not alter the neuroendocrine response to orgasm but produces elevated levels of testosterone in men. However, I did not find any randomized study related to cognition that would be my focus.



    On the other hand, research against pornography says that the brain, over much stimulus like porn, would go into cognitive decline because it can not process as much. But from what I understand, with this basis, the brain would have a threshold at which much stimulation can be positive if there is a subsequent major source recovery over.



    I mean, from what I understand the neural stimulus, it would have something similar with physical training type, you can train a lot if you give the space to recover the muscles. It would even be positive for muscle development and health (about HIIT and its benefits). Would the over-stimulation of porn with adequate rest be positive to develop cognitively?



    So I decided to test the cognitive part a little more rigorously with daily tests, such as a case study. However, I started the tests on the third day, but if NOFAP is so good I suppose I'll still notice the difference. Subsequently, I will test with recovery intervals, but for as long as 3 months without pornography as the initial test. If anyone knows more about physiological and cognitive tests related to abstinence and can send me.
     
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