Once lied to is hard, many times lied to makes it not only harder but eventually, impossible. That is the unfortunate truth. How can a person ever believe a constant liar? maybe if he ever is truly recovered? until then, i would say that lies are the life of an addict, its how they can keep picking their drug over their wives, gf's, children and even life! so take no personal attack, although yes, how can you not?! but its true that addicts build up the habbit and character of being liars to protect their drug of choice. You will know when the truth is fully out and it is going to take some time, someone told me here it takes atleast 2 to 3, if not more before recovery can happen. You will have to trust your gut and LISTEN to it! now that you know its not your imagination, go with your gut!
Can i ask, if you been dealing with this for over a year and crossed every bridge possible (counseling, SAA, Therapy, and you did leave before), what would be different this time for him? another threat? if he was lying through counseling, to his AA group, what has happened to allow him rock bottom? I'm so sorry to say but it is in my opinion, and i dont want to sound as though i am pushing my own past on to you, but as i read some of these stories and hear the same things and the length of time some people have been here or how many chances given, I get so angry that good women are being duped, angrier when a innocent child is involved. You just ended with "He either choses porn or his family", wasn't he given that option for over a year with multiple relapses? remind yourself of that. Also, ask yourself, even if he were in recovery, do you honestly believe you can love this man again enough to have a healthy, happy marriage after so many attempts and so much damage? that is the most important thing you should think about. A child is never reason to stay if a man is abusing you, physically OR mentally. Because at the end of the day, that child will be effected. I think you should look into reading the addiction/codependent books, it will allow you to gain strength for yourself and maybe understand him better and the way an addict mind works.
try the other road, a bridge not crossed. What i learned about reading addiction is the more you stay or "help" an addict, you at times become an enabler instead. Most of us stay becuase we have invested so much time with this person and structured our lives around them that being without them, we feel lost and incomplete, we are obsessed with them the way they are obsessed with their drug of choice. We also stay because we fear failure, we feel that if he choses porn over us, it must mean that i am not worthy enough, not pretty enough, will anyone else ever love us, so we stay out of fear of being alone, yet we really are alone already and our partners really are invested in someone (really some THING) else other then us and the family. We also stay because of children, finances, entanglements that make it harder to just pick up and start new. Remember, the more chances you give him, the more he knows that you will stick by him, it is his addiction that is controlling him and it is your enabling that is allowing it. Addicts don't stay due to ultimatums, they stay if their pain using is more then their pain staying, so if you dont allow the to feel that true pain because you are there, they will keep using.
I too had gone through that, it is very hard to get out of this cycle, this is why support is necessary when making your choice to move forward with caring for yourself. I highly recommend on telling a close friend (hopefully you have a few or atleast one person), you dont have to tell them the nature of the addiction but you can mention he has an "issue" and you should have someone to keep you grounded in what is going on in your life or else you will stay in this funk and never feel normal again. You become like the addict, hopeless. It's great to come here as well and especially if you have no one else. When i was going through my turmoil, i came here every day to post, to get support, advice and some lovely ladies here have been my strength to help me through. I am fortunate as well to have 2 friends who kept my mind grounded and preoccupied. They also encouraged me to start thinking about myself, taking care of myself. Looking good so i can feel good instead of hiding away in my apt because i felt so ugly, depressed, stressed out! Journaling here is amazing, i have gone back to read what i wrote from the beginnings of my venture and i just shake my head at what i went through or should i say put up with. Journal, tell your story so that others can gain insight, help you and you can help yourself realize what your reality is. I think we are all so ashamed about our SO being sex/porn addicts that we dont say it aloud, we dont want to face it, when you write it, it is in black and white for you to see.
Everyone's recovery is different, some think that abstinence is best to rewire the brain. atleast 60 to 90 days. Maybe you can compromise and start off with 30 days? His brain needs rewiring first and foremost! have you read "you're brain on porn"? Also, i think if sex is something that YOU don't want, you should not be doing it to help "fix" him. that is abusing yourself and allowing him to abuse you. If you feel used afterwards, i doubt there is any intimacy involved. It is still teaching him that he can have his cake and eat it too. maybe if he was really in true recovery you can start again after some rewiring? is it possible for him to see an addiction specialist? not just a regular therapist? i found our couples therapy useless, eventhough the guy was great!, we found ourselves in circles going there to talk about our fights and issues but not taking care of what the issue was/is - ADDICTION.
These are great ideas! and yes FANOS is intimacy, not having sex when you don't want to and feeling used afterwards. sounds like you have a great plan and are sticking to it. 8)
This is all so true, the big factor also being we may feel sick that they watch the porn they do and are turned on by some of the types, then thinking that we are only body parts they are using while fantasizing about another woman they saw in porn 8(. being lied to, knowing they lust over strangers, how can we feel intimacy and connection with someone we feel we no longer know? knowing that they have little respect for woman, and less for US, their SO! its hard to desire a person we have lost respect for 8( Women are different then men, we can't just DO IT.
That was great he was able to put that together! sounds like progress. most addicts have hard time with empathy, feelings, accountability.
But how does he feel that YOU dont feel like having sex and you feel used afterwards? this is the problem, he is only thinking of himself, again. Will his penis fall off if he has no sex? would he rather you end the relationship and there is NO sex at all with you? and if that was his preference, would you still want to stay? This recovery is not only about him, it is about you and how you feel and your needs, this is something he must understand, because if you do things that you dont feel good about, you will hold resentment and the true healing process will never happen, you are doing things on the addicts terms. I say this through experience, i had the same pitiful, empathetic thought that having sex any time he wanted would help him with his urges, it doens't work like that. The problem is he is searching for that dopamine because his brain has not rewired. Having sex on his time table is only keeping him hooked on searching for the dopamine, as time passes and he gets all the sex from you, he will need something different and start searching porn again. The addiction progresses, you can and will never give enough to a sex/porn addict. Only in rewiring/recovery do you have a chance for a healthy relationship or you risk that he will continue to sneak and lie when he needs a hit of something new for his reward system. I hope you can get advice from an actual addict specialist to explain to you. If you are going to try to repair something broken, would you just put a bandage on it or sew it up/peroxide the shi* out of it? that's the same with recovery, people who go to the addiction centers actually have to do the 90 days reboot, its just giving him the chance at higher and quicker recovery then to continue supplying him with the drug he should not be having "for now". Most importantly, listen to yourself, YOU do NOT want to have sex, why should you not respect your feelings?
True, not all addicts need the same type of therapy/recovery. Some are more sicker then others and have lived longer time span in this state. And to each his own, some may be able to just kick it. @Eve26, listen to your gut, if the only thing that is consistent in his behavior is his relapse, his "recovery steps" is NOT working. I absolutely believe in giving them time and even room for a small relapse (relapse early on happens to most if not all) but if it is constant and close in time, their choice in recovery road is not working and you must choose if you are going to accept that life for you. And it's not just the point that he may be using you as just a "release", the point is YOU dont want to have sex and feel sick about it afterwards, why should you compromise how you feel? If he loves you he should know that he needs to help you recover too and respect your feelings, not just feel that he can use you as an "aid" or "release". that is not intimacy at all! Try Fanos as Jolie suggested, i've heard many great things from others as well. @Jolie, i too wish i knew the things i know now about recovery, i feel like Eve26 did in which i wanted to give him everything he needed to recover, sex all the time, that i did more for his recovery then he did for it, this is where the resentment built and where i became an enabler instead, continuing to feed him with the dopamine. If i could go back in time to the day i found out, i would've forced him into a treatment center, but this is due to the extreme nature and length of his addiction, over 20 years! I dont think he will be able to recover without professional help. He's not a guy who just watched too much porn and messed up his head a little bit, he is a guy that watched since childhood and was sexually abused and ended up throwing away everything for porn that escalated to parlors, prostitutes and even drugs. So, yes, my ex situation may be mcuh more extreme then many other men on here but this is just an example of where porn can take them if they dont get help. My ex once revealed to me that porn is part of what lead him to parlors and prostitutes, that he would watch porn and eventually it wasn't enough for that high and so he would go look for prostitutes that resembled the scenes he had watched so that he could live out that fantasy. sad, so very sad.
My ex did the same exact things. When we first started to date he was very affectionate, after desensitization settled in he stopped being as affectionate and cuddling. He became cold, irritable, i believe it was due to him hiding the watching of porn and being irritable he could not watch it whenever he wanted, i think the guilt of it affected him as well, he had moved in at this point is when things started to change, he had less access to his drug.
yes, please do what you feel is good for YOU. and please take my writings as just suggestions and my experience. I do not want you to feel that i'm judging you or your situation, i'm only reading by what you wrote and going with what happened in my experience. I'm sure your guy is different and each person needs a different treatment plan and road to travel. My only advice to anyone that i would say most people would agree with is, If his relapse is more consistent then his recovery path, you should really think if what you are doing to "help" him is helping him or you? I highly recommend educating yourself on codepency and how the addict brain works as well as healing yourself. I am currently reading, codependent no More and it has made a big difference in my life and giving me strength to understand and let my anger go. It is only suggestions.
Oh I said something and getting a comment deleted is difficult so I backed up and wrote never mind. Cuz it was answered in the comments written as I was sending.
This is the first time he has admitted and come to terms with being addicted. He has lived 12 plus years in denial to himself and others. He now understands it's an addiction that needs to be treated as such. So that's where my hope is. That he truly does see it for what it is. He has been doing actions for the first time to help himself. He says he definitely has hit rock bottom.
Thanks i got codependent no more in shopping cart on Amazon now anyone have a good workbook they recommend? I'm an old school hand and paper type so would love to find a workbook for me or even couples
how long ago did you first find out? and how many relapses? What are the actions he's doing for himself? and when you did first find out and he started doing the SAA group, therapy, did he not admit it then that he had a problem? I ask this because, again, these are all things i heard for over a year and believed. He also said, this is the first time he has admitted and he never realized it was an issue and that this was really his rock bottom. Maybe your guy truly means all of it?... let your gut guide you but dont forget your brain too, dont just listen to your heart, as we love them, we want to believe the bad away but as they have lied so many times its hard to believe anything. I guess time will be the judge. Is it possible for you to do some therapy on your own? maybe have a unbias professional person to help you talk this out and through?
