What wrong with communism?

I'm from Poland, so as I come from a post-communist country, maybe you'd like to see it from my perspecitve.

Generally, communism is one of the most hated things in Poland, as it caused a lot of poverty for 54 years after II World War. The shops were almost entirely empty, a car was a luxury, censorship was a common thing and more you were engaged in the communist party business, the more priviliges you had. It doesn't really sound like a utopian paradise described in the ideology, does it? I think the thing is that, people aren't necessary capable of sharing everything in every aspect of their life. A human being cares more about its personal belongings, than to something 'everybody' owns. And you know, such ideologies like this, cause a lot of fanaticism. And you probably know what fanaticism can cause. Communism in theory is a really beautiful thing, I agree to this. But in practice, it never worked out. (especially in the Russian version ) So if you were raised in a capitalistic country, I really think you should consider yourself lucky. I know it's based on being selfish and money-focused, but it really works out great for humanity after all. You don't even know how poor post-communist countries are now.

 

Hey man I love Poland! Great conservative country, like Hungary

 

Give me one successful communist state; by successful, I mean actually adopts marxist ideology

 

Brainwashed people in capitalists nations think the sky will fall if there is ever any kind of wealth equality. Apparently, you need extreme disparity in wealth with mega rich slave owners and dirt poor people starving to death while serving rich fat slobs, the poor and injured can not be tended to by doctors either or fire will rain down from heaven and burn us.

There have been multiple cases of socialism [ which is different than communism] that have worked. The problem is the socialist nations keep getting bombed by the capitalist ones. [ Germany in the Nazi era did very well under socialism we are told, and the power of their military is a good indicator of that. Libya did awesome under socialism [ better than many western nations according to reports] highest standard of living in Africa at the time beating out Isreal and South Africa, but then the West bombed them into oblivion and shut down the socialist state. Can't have the money from the natural resources going to the people it has to go to some filthy rich fucks or else the sky will fall, I guess bombs will fall is more accurate

It's not like socialism and communism can't be tweaked, but you will never be able to convince anyone of that. The blinders come up as soon as the evil words are mentioned.

IMO, most history is bullshit and to think you get an accurate portrayal of the enemy from the victor of a war is naive and more so today when lying is standard procedure.

We do know America has a huge death toll today and that it is responsible for destruction all over the world. This, of course, doesn't mean some kind of capitalist system can't work, but for some reason, the Soviet Union having death camps means socialism can't work? Not to mention according to the pro capitalists 'communism' is the reason for America's woes. How the hell do you argue with someone who thinks America is turning communist? They don't even have socialized medicine. It has the worst wealth disparity in the industrialized world. America is so fuckin' far from communist or the communist ideal, but as soon as someone suggests food for a starving man or health care for all the people the nutbags start crying wolf [ or communist in this case]. The level of mendacity, blindness or stupidity to think America is actually communist is pointless to argue with, and when such uninformed or mendacious people to try to use "facts" or "history" to support their capitalist dogma it's pointless to refute them as they are either liars and or blind fanatical followers

 

Nazi Germany and Gaddafi Libya are not the best of examples. While the Nazi's were able to turn the sputtering Weimar Republic into an economic machine, they were also, at the same time, deciding who was a full, half or quarter Jew, throwing the disabled into ovens, and a myriad of other incomprehensible crimes, before the war. Gaddafi like to rape. A lot. He had several torture chambers, where he would take em as young as 14, both guys and gals.

 

First I ever heard THAT about Gaddafi. Usually, the enemies of the USA are all pedophiles weird that he liked em so old. Bill Clinton and Trump both are pedophiles, Obama was the antichrist, and the Bushes took part in Satanic rituals where they sacrificed babies and ate them.

The question is what the fuck does any of that have to do with the efficacy of socialism, and why does that make Nazi Germany and Libya bad examples of socialism?

 

it was out of topic lmao

 

You really believe that?

 

Did it seem like I was being serious? No, I don't believe that. Some made up rumors should not be taken as fact.

 

It shows the corruption that erupts as a result of a socialist system. Its great if you are part of the ruling class. Nazi party members had a whale of a time. Jews, Gypsies, the disabled, and a bunch of other groups had their property stolen and were killed in horrific fashion. Socialist systems often do seem to work, initially. Venezuela was a socialist paradise in the first decade of this new millennium, but then it all predictably went to the dogs due to corruption just as every socialist system ever has.

Take it from a Canadian who has lived his entire life with socialized medicine. It really blows. Don't believe the "great things" you read in the news about it. I pray every day that I do not sustain an injury or illness for which treatment is not covered. I would privatize healthcare in this country in an instant.

 

Governments are based on tomorrow, not the present moment

 

It shows nothing of the sort. It's a bunch of made up shit about Gaddafi. The country had the #1 quality of life in Africa this from being a third world shithole they had free university and you got paid to go to school. They took the money from the oil billionaires and spread it amongst the people. The quality of life went through the roof. This is like claiming the USA is communist to claim that socialism didn't work in Libya is delusional bullshit and out right lies. I want to curse at you, but I've come across too many of your types and am really done talking about it. Why do you think the socialist system will inevitably get corrupt like capitalist systems I assume? There are many safeguards in a good system to prevent this. Libya was not better of with the people starving and a few rich fucks hoarding all the wealth and it's not better off now that it has been "liberated"

Canada is 100x better than the USA in so many ways other than healthcare. Canada is not a socialist state though not even fucking close. There is no major illness not covered by medical in Canada you can go to the doctor for Cancer treatment or for a broken nail. America is a shithole why not move to that paradise if you think it's so great. Get sick lose every penny you have and then get thrown to the curb durr Merica. Segregated neighborhoods race hate, SJW's, cavity searches, lol, spot searches, the fight on the mysterious pretty much non existent terrorists, the war on drugs, the highest incarceration rate in the world, insane prison sentences, and horrific prisons, injustice and far less freedum for anyone but the rich who want to rip people off.

 

If today (Monday) all wealth in the US was collected up and shared out EQUALLY to every man, woman and child then come Friday there would be tremendous inequality again.

Time preference is one of the most important characteristics of a person in determining their likely life outcome. Someone with high time preference, eg a toddler, wants everything NOW. Someone with low time preference, eg saving for a rainy day type, is able to delay gratification.

On Monday the high time preference people would simply go out and blow their windfall. The low time preference people would save and invest.

Please explain, specifically, how wealth equality could ever be achieved and sustained. Do you just share it all out only once or every Monday?

 

Less disparity is the more accurate term. Not suggesting everyone should have the same wealth that is not socialism. To put it very briefly no making money of off existing money and no making money off the labor of other people [ to a certain degree anyway] Have government take a big hand in business [ which they already do but favor the workers and environment instead of profit.] Workers have shares in companies. More equality in pay between blue collar and white collar work. Lawyers especially and walls street types not making huge money. It's not to say you can't make 10x as much as someone else but if you are not making money off your workers and you are not allowed to price gouge [ by the government and law] I would say 10x is reasonable.

A society where Hollywood doesn't' promote drugs, sex, and greed. Where wealth isn't glamorized, but rather ostentatious displays of wealth are looked down upon. A society where greed and consumerism [ having useless crap] isn't the primary motivator.

Consumerism isn't just destructive to humans it's harmful to the planet. It's a mad stupidity. The current society at its best is less than when men lived in tribes, IMO, and is not worth keeping.


Obviously, those socialist ideas are not popular with the rich and elite regardless of what they say. Money and wealth have influence in America and they have demonized socialism.


P.S

If you're born in a country and/or are a citizen you should have a share in the sale of the national resources of that nation. They should not all go to some rich cunt. As well as you are a citizen you should be entitled to land rather than people buying it up [ some foreingers] and selling it to you at extreme prices that have you paying a mortgage your entire life.


Food and housing were human rights in Libya so was education. Literacy rates went through the roof so many people improved themselves and America bombed that all to nothing.

There is not some fall apart blah blah moral because of this or that it was already in disarray with people starving and homeless but then socialism and taking the profits from the sale of the natural resources from a few filthy rich and spreading it amongst the people changed all that. Now thanks to the "liberators" it's a hellhole again. But at least a lot of people learned to read and some got higher educations.

 

Why is less disparity desirable? And at what point do we know we've achieved it?

Let's take another specific example. Imagine 3 guys - Adam, Ben and Colin. They all left school at the same age with the same qualifications and joined the same company doing more or less the same job for the same pay.

Jump forward 20 years and they've now turned 40. Adam enjoyed his 20's and 30's, partied hard and spent pretty much everything he earned. He still rents and has no savings and no family. Ben enjoyed himself, but didn't go to every party he was invited to. He was careful to save some money each month and now owns his modest house with $50k in the bank. He has a wife and one teenage son. Colin was the exact opposite of Adam, he worked hard and saved and invested every penny he could. He now owns a nice house, has $300k in the bank and has three young kids. His wife sadly passed away. Recently he discovered his own health was failing, and the prognosis is not good.

Is the economic disparity between these 3 guys acceptable to you? If not, what should each of them have? Should Colin (and Ben) be forced to give some of their money to Adam?

 

The rest of your post reads like a stream of consciousness. It sounds like a list of petty grievances you have over the (undeserved) success of others. There is no core belief or mechanism that explains either the principles upon which your preferred system is based upon or how it could ever be implemented.

But then that's not your fault. Communist writing, including Marx's own, is full of the perceived faults of capitalism and very light on the specifics of how a socialist run economy (or communist one - they're both essentially the same!) would operate in practice.

 

@Themadfapper
Sorry but it is just getting ridiculous. Do you really think that every citizen should have a share in their country's lands and goods? By what right? Because you were born into that country? You didn't conquer the land, or mined the resources. A worker having a share of the company he's working in? It is like you gave every builder that was building your house a share of it, just because they were paid to do so.

Companies are made to make profit, they aren't a charity for people who need money. The men who own now big profitable companies worked very hard for many years to achieve the success, and you think that they shouldn't have it because it isn't equal? That's insane.

I don't mean to offend you, but I think that you folks in the New World are just too lazy. You think you should get everything for free, and have right to do anything, even though that everything is just cheaper in your country. I recommend you to have a trip around the countries that one day had your so beloved socialist system. You'll see how poor people from those countries are.

The biggest flaw of socialism is making possible to get a easy living without hard work. And this is why these system collapsed. China which is still communist, enabled privatization of companies in 1970's and made trade more liberal, that's why it survived. In European Union every member of it has free college and medical service, and I won't say it is a bad thing, I also use it. But there is a lot of people going to college and not making any use of it, and the money that was spend on them could be spent on a medical treatment for someone horribly ill. And you say it is a good thing?

Everyone has the human rights, but don't expect any additional rights just because you think you deserve it

 

Why is less disparity desirable? If you need an answer to that there is nothing I can tell you. As to your story/question I already answered that in my previous post which I assume you didn't read or decided to not understand?

Furthermore, communism and socialism are not the same thing. I'm not going to keep repeating the same points just because you refuse to understand them. Back in the 1930s in Germany the Nazi party and the communist party in Germany had vicious fights as they were both directly opposed to each other's political parties. They are polar opposites. To put it briefly communism is people for the government. Socialism is a government for the people. Of course, either can be tweaked and it is extreme stupidity to assume that socialism and communism can only be one way and not altered. Any system can be altered, but you got these fucking ideas similar to those that think there is only Christianity and evolution when there are a million belief systems out there and they could all be wrong.


Since you didn't read my post. It's NOT COMMUNISM YOU STUPID ************* THEY DON'T ALL HAVE EQUAL AMOUNTS OF WEALTH. WHAT PART OF STILL MAKING MORE MONEY THAN SOMEONE ELSE DON'T YOU GET OR THE SUGGESTED 10X AMOUNT? I SAID NO MAKING MONEY OF OFF MONEY AND NO MONEY OF LABORS OF OTHER PEOPLE ALSO NO PRICE GOUGING. There is no control of how people spend their money. It's not just that the one saved money and worked hard but the more skilled makes more money as well.

@ Sombrero

That system has worked in Libya and Germany. If you think private interests should own the oil of your nation and own the mineral rights. We got nothing to talk about. I assume you are a proponent of globalism since you want no real stake in your own nation. I see no point in fighting for a nation like yours other than the threat of death if avoid the draft.

Maybe you should check out South America, Mexico, the Middle East. All these areas ravaged by the capitalist consumerist nation. Being bombed, having corrupt governments set up, the country thrown in dissary, having their natural resources pillaged. So much death, destruction, starvation and poverty caused by this system. So much poverty in the USA and it's getting worse.

https://web.stanford.edu/class/polisci120a/immigration/Federal Tax Brackets.pdf


@Hexenwahn
You all seem to lack reading comprehension.

No one said you can't have a bigger sand castle. Just that you can't build it on the labors of others. If you want to work hard though go for it. FOR THE UMPTEEN TIME IT'S NOT FUCKING COMMUNISM AND YOU CAN HAVE MORE MONEY THAN SOMEONE ELSE IF YOU WORK HARDER OR ARE BETTER AT WHAT YOU DO. It's about not taking advantage of and using others, it's about the government being for the people keeping things fair rather than looking out for the government, or the big corporations.

If you want to live in a capitalistic wonderland that is your business as long as you don't enslave other people, rob other people of their wealth and of course bomb nations that don't want to be "capitalistic" [ aka pillaged by the bigger nations]

Anyways I'm done with this as I keep saying the same shit and you people hear something else.

 

How are you going to enforce this? Now I don't agree with greed and drugs and stuff but wouldn't enforcing something like that lead to a sort of police state, where there is no free speech?