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P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by Fenix Rising, May 12, 2019.

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  1. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    I didn't even know the full form of PAWS. I never had even a mild panic attack ever in my life. When I started nofap, I started getting two panic attacks on average per day. I got all the tests out there and everything was perfect with me physically. Then I came to these forums and saw so many similar stories of people going through more or less same things. Coincidence?
     
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  2. clapas

    clapas Fapstronaut

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    On the other hand, PMO can be worse because it may take you longer to realize the damage, if you are even able to associate PMO with the symptoms of an addiction and, besides, you can abuse it to a greater extent, given that you don't need to spend your money.

    Regarding the realization and association of PMO with the symptoms, it took me around 7 years. Had I known before, it wouldn't have gone so bad certainly.
     
  3. That's terrible! I hope you're better now!

    Since it is post acute withdrawal symptoms, when does it begin usually? What is the differnet to acute withdrawal symptoms?
     
  4. In my case, I've experienced a lot of acute withdrawals pain since I've tried to quit pmo altogether(about 9years). As one of a post above said: I never realized the damages till I got longer streaks(>90). It felt like I went to the darkest hole in my life and I could never imagined any sort of...
    Brief , longest withdrawals from paws were disproportionated body parts such as legs, knees, lower back, torso and all the other paws symptoms. I've read they are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain.
     
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  5. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    It's hard to say. For me they begun 4-5 months into abstention. Acute withdrawals are, well acute. Cold like symptoms, joints pain, headaches, insomnia, crazy mood swings, anxiety and panic attacks… While PAWS are more subtle, for me it was chronic fatigue, anhedonia, depression, brain fog.
     
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  6. clapas

    clapas Fapstronaut

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    On the other hand, PMO can be worse because it may take you longer to realize the damage, if you are even able to associate PMO with the symptoms of an addiction and, besides, you can abuse it to a greater extent, given that you don't need to spend your money.

    Regarding the realization and association of PMO with the symptoms, it took me around 7 years. Had I known before, it wouldn't have gone so bad certainly.
     
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  7. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    I agree, duration is a big problem. I watched some lecture of dr. Mark Lewis telling that drug addicts "grows out of addiction" is under 10 years (heroin addicts average at 4 years, compulsive cannabis users 6 years) while average alcohol addiction last 15 years and nicotine addicts are averaging at 25 years. It's funny fact, when I think about it, as I lost exactly 25 years to "grow out" of (P)MO addiction. Maybe it's low impact harmfulness of these two addictions that keeps us going for so long.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  8. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    What do you mean by grow out of addiction ?
     
  9. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    They stop taking it.
     
  10. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    I wonder how fried their brains would be at that point.
     
  11. BayZen

    BayZen Fapstronaut

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    Hey I'm a 30M. From my current symptoms I think I will be able to join this elitist club in 26 days since I'm currently on day 64 and have been in flatline mode since day 1 or even longer (if this counts).

    I experience the following symptoms:
    • dizzy / lightheaded feeling (It feels like my feet are not firmly on the ground, although no physician found something wrong with my sense of balance, blood, brain),
    • constant visual snow/static,
    • derealization and anxiety attacks,
    • often head pressure on the front right of my brain (nothing wrong on brain scans),
    • migraine aura attacks without headaches,
    • most of the time low energy,
    • phases of insomnia (but not constant).
    Over the past few weeks I may have noticed a slight improvement of the dizzy feeling, but I'm not sure.
    I have been addicted to porn since 10 years, but what really "destroyed" me was sexting in the last 4 years (there were days were I did nothing else just sexting). My pants feel quite dead most of the time, but strangely I do not have ED with my girlfriend. But I feel very dizzy after O, that's why I put sex on hold for the last 26 days.

    I wish you all the strength you need to enjoy the present day and a better tomorrow.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
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  12. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    Well, alcohol and nicotine are poison to your body. But surprisingly heroin an cannabis are not so harmful per se as long as they are of good quality (without harmful additives and sterile). Former long term heroin addicts in Switzerland and Portugal live pretty normal lives since governments decided to help these people instead of punishing them for their drug use. They get their daily dose of morphine in a local pharmacy and soon become fully functioning human beings. The program makes sure that they don't live on streets anymore, go to work and get regular free mandatory psychological counseling. More than 50 % of participants gradually stopped using drugs after they've been included in these national recovery programs. It's not the substance but everything surrounding addiction that deteriorates people's health (sepsis, poisoning from drug additives, poor living conditions, malnutrition etc).
     
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  13. LeeUK

    LeeUK Fapstronaut

    This all sounds very scary but thank you to everyone for the invaluable information.
     
  14. LeeUK

    LeeUK Fapstronaut

    I am a medical cannabis user (chronic sleep disorder) and don't touch alcohol or tobacco. I find it has helped with low mood also during my reboots. Like everything though it has to be taken in moderation. Even something that is good for you can still take you down the rabbit hole if you allow it to.
     
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  15. Could be because years of endless searching for porn alone is hard enough to stop. But I still think orgasms are the worse of the three(pmo).
     
  16. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    Yeah, compulsive binging is as close to taking drugs as it gets.
     
  17. winningover

    winningover Fapstronaut

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    Also, I think in this addiction, variety is endless. In substance addiction, there is only escalation. But here, along with escalation, there is so much variety to keep you hooked. And by variety, I mean variety of all manners i.e. women, types, stories, scenes etc etc.
     
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  18. That's right and it messes both with your sexuality and can give you a social experience (an illusion that replaces real social interaction).

    I had a time where I was quite experimental with drugs and I smoked cannabis way too often. But cannabis was the only thing that could hook me for some time. And maybe alcohol. When I think that I even tried coke and didn't like it, while other guys just need this first intake to experience a high that's so strong and unique that they get addicted from trying again and again to experience this high another time ... I think I was just lucky.

    They say, the person doesn't choose the drug but the drug chooses the person. Something to think about .. And I wouldn't downplay substance abuse. I've been addicted to porn for more than a decade. It's not something that I would do daily, but when I let go myself it's several times a week with sessions up to 10 hours. How would this addiction look like if it wasn't porn but a substance? I guess if it was cannabis it could be better or it could be much worse (when it affects my psyche very much). With alcohol, cocain or pills or something like that: no doubt, with such an addiction career I would be really sick, I mean REALLY.

    Recovery for porn addicts IS difficult. But at least it's only about changing habits. It's not as if we would have taken literally poison in our body for years. Alcoholics can die from withdrawal.
     
  19. Fenix Rising

    Fenix Rising Fapstronaut

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    I agree with everything you've written. But I wouldn't downplay on how hard it is to get off PMO neither. I can personally compare getting off 3 addictions: morphine, alcohol and daily binge (P)MO. Each reboot was similar but also very different in some regards.

    Alcohol: I don't know if heavy social drinking can ne categorized as addiction, some say it can, some say it can't. Mine took a form of not touching alcohol on working days at all but passing out from alcohol abuse nearly every weekend at parties for 8 years or so. I didn't have much problems with quitting when I finally decided to stop. The most difficult thing was friends not wanting to understand that I don't drink anymore. I experienced some craving, sweats, sleepless nights on weekends and did slip occasionally, but all in all it was not too bad. I can still drink in moderation, if I choose to, so maybe I didn't developed true addiction even though people thought differently back then.

    Liquid morphine: Got hooked after my back surgery. I got hooked soon after my doc prescribed morphine drops to elevate the pain. I needed more and more of this stuff. I ended up getting them from my doc and a friend, who is a dental surgeon, combining both. My doc needed 2 years to figure out I got hooked, called my friend which resulted in cancelling both morphine prescriptions. I went through 11 days of withdrawal hell, literally (vomiting, trembling, twitches, diarrhea, fever/cold, hallucinations), but when it was over, I was feeling back to normal soon after. No big depression or cravings to speak of. Probably because I knew morphine was inaccessible, so cravings were pointless.

    PMO: I had problems with more or less daily (P)MO binges for 25 years and stopping hardmode was the hardest of the three. Firstly, it took me about 3 years of tries and failures to get some meaningful streaks, acute withdrawal symptoms were similar to other two addiction only much milder, but lasted much longer. I think that it took me about 40 days to get through headaches, worst insomnia, joints pain and other flu like symptoms, but the problem was what came after. Chronic anxiety, depression, anhedonia, brainfog, panic attacks, crazy mood swings, chronic fatigue for no apparent reason and it lasted long time (some symptoms around a year). After 14 months of hardmode abstention (following 6-7 months long previous streak), I still don't feel physically and mentally at my best.
     
    Last edited: Feb 29, 2020
  20. clapas

    clapas Fapstronaut

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    I wish our mentors told us about it.

    Man, life's so hard.

    This is kind of discouraging to me. I suspect at that stage, pass 14 months, one cannot say he's cured because had a good week. At least, do you have the intuition of a future, total recovery?
     

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