P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Been dealing with some urges today boys.. For what its worth, I woke up from a wet dream today.
I can admit to falling for the temptation of searching for and peeking at images and snippets of clips

I did reach out to a fellow man in a similar situation as us, and his message was of great help.. I must stay strong for my future and for my life - but also for you guys! We're in this together!

Anyone care to send me some encouragement despite my setback today?

Anyone care to send some tips for how to best battle or overcome urges?

I know my biggest fault today was starting the day with my phone in bed - which is a habit I have eliminated, but I have slacked on my positive habits during my vacation at my familys (such as getting up from bed immediately upon waking up, not checking my phone until I have finished my cold shower), and have instead lived off of some negative habits.

I recognize that laziness and neglecting healthy habits will for sure increase chances of inviting urges. I can also recognize that days of wet dreams can be a dangerous - and caution must be especially utilized on such days.

 

Thanks for that post Indigo, a lot of it resonated with me.

The nonlinear nature of recovery rears its head again and after a few days of grogginess and brain fog I had probably the best night's sleep I've ever had in my life. Last night I fell asleep quickly and gently and this morning at 5:30 I was alert as soon as my eyes opened. I don't remember ever going from sound asleep to alert within a few seconds ever in my life before.

One thing I've never really considered, and I suspect this is true for many people, is that sleep is supposed to be restful and rejuvenating. It is not normal to be dragging your knuckles and looking like you've gone 15 rounds with a prizefighter in the A.M. yet that was my reality for a very long time. That is probably the reality for lots of people. Poor habits, poor nutrition, and a poor lifestyle are unfortunately the norm.

Rest is supposed to be restful, what a crazy idea.

I'm currently between jobs and three recruiters from three different companies reached out to me today. One is a startup, they had mentioned stock options would be part of any potential compensation package. Wouldn't that be great if I ended up getting stock at some startup that ends up being a huge company...a man can dream right?

Right now I just got back from a long walk in the park, it's an absolutely gorgeous day today. There were some beautiful women out and my body started reacting accordingly. I'm not out of flatline yet but slowly I'm thawing.

Today was a beautiful day.

 

First time i did pmo i had severe paws for the first 200 days, it was a fucking hell, possibly the worst period of my entire life, with super strong suicidal thoughts etc.

Now i'm back to porn ans trying again to get out. Iv'è done 10 days more than twice in the last months, and had zero withdrawals, but never been over 10 days.
If this time i will have the same withdrawals of the first time, for 200 days, i will not be able, or willing, to do it.

 

I think of it like this: no matter how strong the habit is, it's going to be broken some day. So I don't think you failed when you woke up with your phone in your bed. It's also good to be prepared for when this inevitably happens.

This was a tiny slip up! Don't worry about it man, just get back on the horse

 

Hi @Indigo ! Thank you for your post, I relate much. Congrats for you determination.
Have you ever tried Wim Hof Method ? It is related in stimulation and regulation of vagus nerve. I'm doing it on and off and this is the most simple and useful practice I ever did. What are your thoughts about that ?

 

Yes, I did WHM quite often throughout the first months of Nofap and found it very beneficial. Especially when it came to dealing with overwhelming urges and insomnia. Even used a device to monitor my blood oxygen levels while doing that. Another method that kept me going through that toughest phase was holding my breath as long as I can with full lungs, as opposed to empty lungs in WHM. Like apnoe diving.

With regard to vagus nerve stimulation I'm sure WHM does a good job. I found it very helpful as a method to deal with nasty physical and mental hardship in withdrawal.

Yet, I do experience a sort of different form of activation while meditating. Doing WHM you activate vagus by means of breathing, holding breath etc.

By meditation (also depending on the kind of meditation, I guess) you activate the vagus nerve by focussing on the present moment, by generating positive feelings and so on. The latter will serve as a very powerful tool to change neural pathways for the better, thereby paving the way for a long-term change in perceiving the world and reacting to it accordingly. Which in turn will activate the vagus nerve in a natural, automatic way. This way, the method turns into normal life, so to say.

By the way, one of the best methods to temporarily activate the vagus nerve is to inhale slowly (yet, not too deeply) in for 4-5 seconds, and exhale slowly for 5-6 seconds. University in Germany figured that out and my HRV device confirms that. But WHM, of course, feels way better than simply breathing like that. It's like entering nirvana for a few seconds

 

I agree and relate with WHM.
Once I was reading a book about neurogenesis and meditation were described (backed by scientific research) as the most neuroregenerative activity, supporting neurogenesis in both hemispheres of brain and increasing the growth in prefrontal cortex and neocortex. Also studies shown that meditation release dopamine - this were useful information for me to maintain meditating daily in the evening and sometimes in the morning (especially in brain fog moments).

 

Indeed, there is a bulk of research on meditation (most of which mindfulness meditation, I guess) now, demonstrating how a regular practice changes the brain. Some parts get thicker, other parts get smaller (Amygdala). The immune system, the hormonal system and the nervous system are in a constant exchange....so by changing your nervous system, you also influence the other systems. Your whole being benefits from that.

One of the most intriguing practices in this respect is the generation of elevated emotions from within, so to speak. Usually we are conditioned into believing that we need an outside event for a certain feeling or emotion to emerge. Experience and also science shows that it's possible to learn to produce positive and healthy emotions and feelings just by yourself. And how to cultivate and keep them within you. Sure thing not only the reactivity of your HPA axis will change in the long run, but also the expression of genes and so on.

 

Hi,

The best suggestion I have is to have a zero tolerance approach to looking at anything visually stimulating - or even thinking about it. I've fallen in to the trap in the past of letting these things in, and then it's a real battle to get them out without PMO'ing. Just be aware of those thoughts and behaviours, and cut them off ruthlessly as soon as you see them.

 

Great post. My story is similar, although with a lot less casual sex. There is a case to be made that we are experiencing a real syndrome with identifiable patterns of behaviour, and symptoms. And recovery is a b*tch - we have to do this on our own in whatever personal circumstances we find ourselves, because it's going to take mainstream thinking decades to catch up.

Funnily enough I am listening right now to a damning indictment of the porn industry on Youtube from an organization called The Reward Foundation. I would put a link up, but I am being very restrictive with my YouTube usage, for obvs reasons.

I'm guessing in your case that sex is causing a slow down in recovery? Personally I'm too exhausted to even get out of the house to find anyone, and I am OK with the idea of never having an orgasm again, if that's what it takes to get my health, and my life back.

 

I absolutely agree with you.

One of the toughest things for me is to sort out what kind of sex life is normal and which one is addictive. Porn obviously is addictive trash, so I can live without that for the rest of my life. Using Tinder and other artificial stuff to get laid is also addictive. And of course it is degrading human beings into a mere object for one's lust gratification, which will destort reality in a way with all its negative impact in the long run. So this can go, too.

Judging from my current state of distress I would come to the point to quit sex and orgasm for good voluntarily. Yet, I know that I will heal and feel well again one day. And I don't know if I want to live without ever having sex again then. Where is the thin line between a normal biological need and an addiction? I do not know for myself yet and I think it is different for different people.

I also believe that having sex is slowing down my recovery. But I do feel a crucial difference in this respect. Browsing the net for cs, walking through the city and staring at women while fantasizing, meeting a girl for anonymous sexual encounters, having sex without really knowing that person ...this is all flooding my brain with dopamine and other addictive chemicals. I can literally feel it like an ocean rushing through my brain. Making me feel spaced out and like on some drug.
But having sex with a person I share a certain part of my life with ....also exchanging on other levels, so to say.... does not feel as addictive to me. Maybe because there are also other feelings (and thus chemicals) involved.

If it weren't for nature wanting us to reproduce and thus supplying our brains with such a powerful tool in the process. Everything could be way easier. The "Coolidge Effect" is probably the one to be blamed for us to be prone to such an addiction in the first place.

 

For those who have made it past 6 months of PAWS...

When does it become tolerable!?!? I'm running on fumes now putting up with this. I'm just looking to get to a level where I can function somewhat normally, even if I'm still slightly tormented by PAWS symptoms.

 

I have been in paws for 3 years with some relapses and im so used to it sadly. I sometimes remember what its like to feel love, or socialising without being anxious, but it just becomes our new reality. Even tho it sounds depressing as...

 

Yeah I’ve had it bad for about 2 and a half years now (relapses) and tbh I can’t remember what it’s like to feel love, I just know that I want to.

it has become my new normal to feel like this but it doesn’t mean that I’m comfortable it at all. I wouldn’t even count this as living, just surviving in the hopes that I can do some living later. Will be amazing to be able to look back at this period and laugh at how absurd it was that it happened.

 

I feel the exact same as you, and you are totally right. Keep being on semen retention and see what happens. It can only get better from here

 

I am posting a status update for myself, currently about halfway into month 17 of semen retention:

Over the weekend I met up with a friend for lunch now that covid restrictions are easing. We last saw each other between 3-6 months ago, I don't remember exactly when. When we met the first thing he told me was "you look healthy". I'm not the type to seek validation or fish for compliments but I must admit I was happy to hear that. Incremental progress is hard to notice from a day to day perspective but it can be obvious to somebody who doesn't see you everyday.

My sleep hygiene seems to be stabilizing and more days than not I am waking up alert before 6:00. I don't remember how many days it has been since I've needed an afternoon nap as well.

My eyes, hair, skin, and nails have all drastically improved on this journey however the lone holdout has been some stubborn back acne. I don't want to get my hopes up but it finally seems to be diminishing.

I am getting glimpses of my libido back but I sense this will still take some more time. Earlier at the gym this morning my body started reacting when I caught glimpse of a particularly fit female doing squats in the rack. I'm not even talking about an erection but rather the primal fire in the belly. This is good, this is normal.

Speaking of the gym I have finally broken through a stubborn plateau I had been stuck in for awhile. I attribute it to deadlifts which I recently started doing again for the first time in ages. Every man needs to be doing deadlifts.

All in all I believe I am in the final stretches of PAWS but time will tell.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience man, and Congrats for 17 months SR.

I have a question for you, if you don't mind:
do you have sexual thoughts when you're alone and daydreaming? do you get erections if you think about sex with real life partner that's not amazing as porn toy(girl)?

thanks.

 

Sexual thoughts still creep in from time to time although nowhere near as much as when I first started. Sometimes when a thought comes I'll shift my focus to something else but sometimes I'll dwell on it. Thinking about past sexual experiences or fantasizing about women I know. I don't beat myself up over it, after all I am only human.

The quality of my erections has gone down for a long time before I started semen retention (approaching 43 years of age). During a sexual encounter I would need stimulation to get hard but could stay hard during sex itself. It was only in the last few years that my erection quality during any sexual activity diminished. This was after many years of masturbation, one night stands, escorts, and alcohol abuse. In retrospect I'm surprised I wasn't completely impotent over a decade ago.

After I started semen retention my dick was D-E-A-D. I couldn't even sense the nerve endings down there, it was essentially a dead hanging appendage. Now if I do kegels I can feel sensations and I suspect I could get a decent erection with some direct stimulation. However that is not what my goal is.

Guys should not be constantly cranking their shafts to avoid losing a hardon in a sexual situation. Guys in porn do this all the time so people who watch porn probably think it's normal. If you're a red blooded heterosexual male around an attractive and willing female you should absolutely not need to furiously jack yourself to stay hard. That is a crystal clear indicator of PMO abuse.

Only recently in the past few weeks I've been starting to "come back to life". If I see a beautiful girl I get the heat in my lower belly, nerves all over my body start tingling, and I'll briefly get hard. This is a normal physiological response. After 16 months this has barely started happening for me and only a few times.

My goal is to continue with semen retention until my body has been re-calibrated to act correctly: involuntarily physiological processes when in the company of a fertile female. If it takes six more months, twelve more months, five more years, it is irrelevant to me. I am in it to win it.

 

Yes Sir!!!

 

Does anybody here have PAWS where the symptoms come in waves? Almost every day at around the same time in the evening, I feel the symptoms suddenly get a lot worse. I can wake up feeling somewhat functional, definitely not cured like how I felt before the addiction but I feel decent with less social anxiety, not much depression, etc. then all of a sudden a few hours later I get pretty bad depression and social anxiety and all the other symptoms.


Unfortunately I haven’t been as lucky as some of you to reach a long streak, my longest was about 20 days. I feel like I’ve been living with some type of dopamine or opiate receptor damage for at least 3 or 4 years though. My life is much worse than before the escalation of my addiction to hours of edging.