Fear Of Withdrawal Symptoms vs. Fear Of Success

I don't know if it's one or both of these things are handicapping me and hindering my progress. It seems to me that I really struggle with a fear of withdrawal symptoms and potentially a fear of success as well. In hopes of getting the thoughts and opinions of community members here, I'll elaborate on both.

FEAR OF WITHDRAWAL SYMPTOMS:
I haven't been what I'd refer to as healthy in 15-20 years. In my mid 30s now, the most recent time I recall truly feeling well and having energy was probably in my late teens. It was around that time that things started to go down hill; I started to experience fatigue, lethargy, heart palpitations, hair loss. Things went further south in my early to mid 20s as I developed generalized anxiety, panic disorder and some other symptoms like urinary urgency, eye floaters, vertigo and tinnitus. Depending on porn for "relief" from stress and certain realities of daily life is one thing but I think it was edging for hours at a time, over several sessions a week, for years on end that destroyed me. Nowadays, I feel the worst 24-48 hours after ejaculation or 5-7 days afterwards if I can hold out and abstain for that long in an attempt to finally reset my life and live properly, healthily. I feel so horrible – on edge, burned out, run down – that I keep thinking that abstaining longterm can and will only make me feel even worse so I just relapse over and over again and I can't seem to make any forward progress.

FEAR OF SUCCESS:
In an odd way, I could probably almost refer to this as Fear Of Health. I've felt unwell for so long that I think it's become the norm for me. I can't even imagine at this point what it would be like to feel well physically and/or emotionally and/or mentally. I would define being successful as being healthy and happy. What I seek in terms of health is probably obvious. I want to be able to go about my days with some semblance of normality; I don't want to be panicked or exhausted or unenthusiastic or spiteful. Happiness, for me, would be achieved if I had a job or career that would allow me to comfortably pay my rent and bills with some money left over for things like travel, if I didn't have to live paycheck to paycheck and stress out about potentially going into debt at some point. I just can't bring myself to think that I deserve health or success and I don't know how I'd go about giving myself a realistic shot at obtaining one or the other or, ideally, both.

Input? Thoughts? Advice?

 

Same here. It's almost like you wake up a decade or two later and your life sucks. Sadly, it's not like that. The reality is that you've been suffering all along but it still feels like it happened at the flip of a switch because of all the time wasted. I feel like I'm so "behind." I'm glad I don't have any friends these days because if I did, I'd be comparing myself to them and inevitably feeling even worse.

I look in the mirror and I see the effects of PMO. I see them physically and I see them behind my eyes. I'm a shell of the person I used to be and not even close to being what I could have been. If only I knew the approach to take in order to change that...

 

Man, I relate to so much of what you said. I had the same thoughts but I chose to attack the withdrawals head-on and commit to NOFAP.

I think we fall into the trap of of thinking that we can escape all forms of pain with NOFAP, but we can’t. That’s not life. I am still not healed and I’ve been trying to for a long time but I have grown so much over the last few years. I have astounded myself and the best is still yet to to come. When you start feeling healthier, you worry less and get a bit stressed and angry at how you’ve got to go. But this is good! Channel that energy and use it to drive you on to better things. Some people live in a daze all their lives. Happy to sit around, take a paycheque, and wait to die. Use that energy and try to focus on getting better. I got a whiteboard and set 3 business goals and 3 personal goals every week. Just focus on these goals and your life will start to improve pretty fast.

You might think that you are 10,000 miles away from where you want to be but that’s just a story in your head. You don’t know how good things can get or how soon. Withdrawals suck and they kicked my ass solidly for 6 months but they have eased these past few weeks. I was dealing with PAWS of and on for years and never knew what they were! The symptoms are still here they're more life dampening now than life halting! And comparing yourself to others is inevitable. I get a kick out of it now and as it makes me even more motivated to do better. Once your reward system starts to heal, you’ll be less afraid and more driven to succeed.

Give yourself time man and know that all of these doubts you are having are likely due to the damage that porn has done to your psyche. You can heal. And I’m sure you will.

I know it might sound harsh to some people but making good money isn’t that hard when you’re feeling healthy. I was always broke when I was watching porn because I had no energy and I couldn’t think straight. A little bit of passion, work rate, and NOFAP can really help you make morey and do more than just pay the bills and take the old holiday. I say again, if you’re not already, just set 3 business goals and 3 personal goals each week. Start small and then build up.

 

This hit the spot. In my heart, I feel like I know that what you've written here is the truth. I've thought for the longest time that if I was physically, mentally and emotionally healthy, I'd be much better off in so many ways including financially. I think I'm a smart guy but I'm currently making not more than a couple bucks over minimum wage and it's such a downer and so deflating. Admittedly, I don't have many marketable skills but that's because I've let myself go starting a long time ago.

I'm pretty much "broke" as you've described here. I barely make enough money to cover all my bills on a month to month basis and put food on the table. I'm not being dramatic. Sometimes, I wonder how I'm going to make it for the upcoming month after rent and some of the bigger bills are paid. It's a lot of stress and weighs heavy on my mind constantly. It may seem crazy to some people but I attribute a huge part of this problem to my dependence or reliance on PMO. I've felt so lost for so long.

I'll try to take your advice, though. I'll start small with goal setting and build up gradually. Agh. Wish me luck.

 

Nice one! Knowing what it's like to be broke is hugely valuable too. Once you start building momentum and get a bit more money coming in, you will want to keep and going and not go back to being broke. I don't say this to brag, only to inspire, but I want self-employed a few years ago and it took me a few years to start making good money, but it's because I was dealing with PAWS! I had no energy and crazy symptoms but I was still outworking lots of people around me. I learned a lot, and last year I was hitting close to the six figure mark – and I wasn't even working that hard. It can be done. But if I was still watching PMO all the time, I wouldn't be anywhere. A 'side hustle' is a great way to start, going to meetups and free events, just stay busy and as soon as you spot a job or freelacning idea that you think you'd be good at, get stuck in. You sound look a smart, thoughtful person but just short on belief and confidence but that's just the PMO's effects talking. Avoid P, build some momentum, and I' sure you will see things start to pick up!

 

So you think that it was complete abstinence from PMO that's been the driving factor toward the success you eventually found? Out of curiosity, was it just extreme fatigue you used to deal with? Was it brain fog? Was it a combination of symptoms, something like a syndrome? I'd love it if you could elaborate on "no energy and crazy symptoms."

Thanks for the encouragement. I've always thought highly enough of myself but also quite negatively at the same time. There are things I love about how I am but I also see many faults and therefore things I need to improve upon. I'm not even close to perfect and while I know perfection is nothing practical to strive for, I know I have a long road ahead to get to where I want to be. Right now, I can't even imagine earning anything even close to six figures.

You should be proud of yourself for getting out of the hole you were in. Congratulations.

 

Out of curiosity, why and how did you arrive at the suspicion or determination that your vertigo is caused by porn? I've had it for many years and have always just "known." It seems like nothing else could be causing it. Vertigo and tinnitus seem to go hand in hand some of the time – they occur together commonly enough – and I have both. I link the tinnitus to PMO as well. There are some resources online that try to make the link but nothing "official." But establishment medicine will never acknowledge PMO as that much of a problem because of the porn and Pharma industries. They're all in bed together enough to know not to fuck up what, for them, is a good thing.

 

Nofap has helped, literally the first day I felt sharper at work and my colleagues noticed it. Going on long streaks, and when I relapse – I really beat myself up and push even harder with work and stuff - even if I feel awful and have no energy.

When the paws kicked in after I stopped edging every morning:

• Took 2-3 naps a day
• Extremely stressed and on edge - people slamming doors and sneezing in the office drove me crazy lol
• Unreal derealisation – pretty much every symptom
• Unreal OCD - constant obsessive, disturbing thoughts – thankfully, this reduced after 3 months. Still get some bad thoughts but they don't bother me anymore
• Visual snow
• Just no real energy, just sad, cynical, bored, dry – no lust for life at all. Pure doom. I knew that sitting around feeling sorry for myself would only make it worse so I emptied the tank every day, whatever I had

I had brain fog when I PMO'd every day, but the brain fog reduced within days of stopping watching porn. I think brain fog wasn't helped by my diet at the time too. Way too much cheap carbs like bread, pasta, and beer.

So, like I said, I've had PAWS a few times when I went on long streaks and never knew what they were. The first time PAWS hit, I was 74 days into a streak and then I had horrible anxiety constantly. I quit my job and moved home it was so bad. Everything was scary to me. I was having panic attacks multiple times a day and it felt out of my control. It was clearly paws as I couldn't findda a reason for my anxiety. If only I knew that then...

I started watching porn again every few weeks, telling myself it was ok... which it wasn't PIED returned.


Then, I gave up porn for many, many months and then watched porn one night while a family member had cancer and I was just exhausted and stressed out my mind. The second I started watching porn, it was like 20 different drugs being blasted into my brain. After I finished, I went into derealisation the next day. All the stress, and then tapping into an old addiction after months of abstaining took me over the edge.

And the last time paws hit, I had watched porn only 4-5 times last year and healed in October but then 2 quick relapses sent me back. Paws hit bad after then and lasted 6 months or so like super badly. I still get paws now, like 7 days of symptoms and then they fade (feel good other than anxiety and flatline) but the symptoms are 50% reduced from what they were over the last 6 months. It sounds like PAWS pulsates in cycles until it goes. The first wave is the worse. Just get through it.

 

While PAWS are absolutely awful, you get through them because you get some really good days and hours were you think man... if I could feel like this every day! That's what keeps you going.

 

I can relate to mostly everything you wrote up. Regarding the symptoms you mentioned, I've experienced all of them and then some. I have an exhaustive list. One thing I definitely don't find surprising is that you used to edge as well. I truly think that edging is far worse than just watching porn or just masturbating (not to suggest either of those are "normal and healthy").

I could've avoided all of this bullshit. When I was in my early 20s, I reached out to nearly every doctor and therapist in my densely populated area. Not a single one could see where I was coming from when I tried to link my copious issues to PMO. I was told the same old regurgitated nonsense about how it's not the activities that are the problem, it's me. Every one of those idiots asked me if I was religious and/or feeling guilt and shame.

I should've known better regardless...

There were one or two doctors of many who ever told me that I was on to something with all my crazy suspicions. My appendix burst in my late 20s. It was horrible. I waited a while to go in so there was an infection. Anyway, when I was cleared to go home after a couple days, I decided to call and consult with a TCM (Traditional Chinese Medicine) doctor. She literally said something like, "yes, this is fairly common among people who engage in excessive sex." I guess I still refused to believe it and take it to heart because of all the conflicting information I'd consumed over the years.

Is it "normal" for PAWS symptoms to mirror symptoms that are directly correlated to a cause?

 

I'm not an expert on PAWS. But I agree edging is awful. So, I told myself I was doing nofap for many years, but I was still edging every morning in the shower. Deep down... I knew I was cheating. I just told myself that it was the O that was the problem. Once I watched Dr Trish Leigh's videos about edging, I really scared myself. I was pressing the pleasure button and then letting those chemicals stay in my brain all say. And then do it again the next day. That's the moment I took this 100% seriously – you are literally damaging your brain!!!!! And LIFE!!!

When I stopped edging 2 years ago... my god... months of awfully rough PAWS. Edging is awful a quick MO to realistic fantasy is not even 50% of edging. IMHO. I have pretty much 2 extremely close to recoveries since then but when the libido came back with force, I messed up. Won't make the same mistake.

 

Other than quitting PMO completely and setting goals, what are the other top 2 or 3 things you did to change things around for yourself? I'm down and out. I'm probably worse off than you were at your low point. I'm pretty much broke and my health has been declining for at least a decade and a half. It'd be safe to say I'm desperate. Did you have any major changes in diet, sleep habits or otherwise?

 

I hear you man. I did lots of things over the years, here are a few of the big ones:

• I stopped drinking at home. Only drink 1-2 times a month now
• Go the gym – bulk up. Go the gym at least 3 times a week on a push-pull routine. Track your calories and protein in my fitness pal and that should help you achieve your goals. It's much harder to feel down when you've got a sick physique. Girls will notice
• Eat as clean as you can, a bit of processed stuff isn't bad but the cleaner the better
• I only drink filtered water and coffee at home.
• Meditate for at least 10 minutes a day
• Become obsessed with a big goal and work at it
• I read lots of self-development books
• I cut toxic people out of my life
• Stop thinking that you are the only one frustrated with their life, feeling desperate – that's not the case!
• NEVER GIVE UP! Be the most stubborn person in the world. Become obsessed with improving and leaving this junk behind to live a better life.

 

Thanks, man. I don't drink, I don't have nearly the energy required for gym activities, I already eat clean and drink no coffee. But the rest of the list does consist of things and approaches I should consider and implement as you have done. I think the two big ones will be establishing short and long-term goals and cutting out toxicity/negativity.

 

Thanks for your input. Can you elaborate on what you wrote about "micro-withdrawal?" Are you trying to point to symptoms more directly associated with excessive sexual activity that may mirror withdrawal or what? I'm still not very familiar with such concepts or with the phenomenon referred to as PAWS. I feel like I need to be a little better educated when it comes to all that.

 

Let's face it: "science" or The Science™️ isn't to be trusted most of the time these days anyway.

Just so I'm clear, are you claiming that excess Dopamine, during conversation, becomes an acid? I could've sworn it was turned into another neurotransmitter. But the rest makes sense. And I think we're both thinking about this being caused as a result of synthetic sensations and stimuli spiking Dopamine, right?

I definitely liken PMO to a drug. Not only that but I think it's one of the most addictive in existence.