I'm calling BS on Something...

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by ClassicCase, Apr 8, 2018.

  1. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Ok .. so I am a successful 14 day challenge Fapstronaught so far.. and still going looking for complete recovery.. and it's going really well so far as I can tell..

    But one thing is bothering me..

    I see so many nofappers saying. That along with stopping the viewing of sexual images of women in pictures and video that you also have to stop looking at real women in real life... And let me be clear here I'm saying women because I am a straight male if you are of a different preference just read this as you would for your preference.. that somehow averting your gaze from Pretty Woman that catches your eye is in some way helping you and I thought the whole problem is you're trying to retrain your mind to stop Desiring fake women in p*** and to desire real women in real life... I thought the goal was to have your body respond to real women again.. and the only way that I can see that you can do that is by looking at real women and thinking about real women and allowing your body to have a response to that... Oh but no so many nofappers say no oggling of women do not stare at real women and do not think sexual things about them... And yet the same nofappers will come on here and list the benefits of no fapping.....

    And this is where I see this huge hypocritical part of this whole thing... I see almost every success story claiming that there better looking and more confident and now women are staring at them so much more and they're happy about it.. so they are happy to be having women staring at them thinking possibly thinking sexual thoughts about them because you know that sometimes they probably are.. this is part of the main reason they are no fapping so that they can have this benefit.. so that they are more attractive to women now and get more stairs they talked on and on about this into success stories...

    But then turn right around and say oh but no no no you shouldn't do that you shouldn't stare at the real women and think anything about the real women and learn to avert your gaze and learn to be above that while they desire these women to do exactly what they're saying you shouldn't do and to stare at them and they're all happy if they are.. that my friends is the definition of hypocrite...

    So I don't understand how you can have it be a goal to change yourself in a way so that women will stare at you more because you want them to and yet for some reason somehow you believe that real women do not want you to stare at them while you are sitting there saying that you want real women to stare at you..

    I did not come here to teach myself not to look at real women and desire real women I came here to teach myself to stop with the porn bullcrap... To rewire myself to be all about real women and to cure my Ed caused by pmo....

    I think this whole idea of being here to become a better man and to not stare at real women anymore is stupid, I thought this place was supposed to be on curing internet p*** addiction and pied caused by it so that the men being affected in that way can stop living miserable lives.. real women had nothing to do with the problem I found myself in and I will not turn myself away from them in fact I'm here to try to turn myself back to them...

    Please tell me does anyone here feel the same way I do about this particular topic????
     
  2. RecoveringFapaholic

    RecoveringFapaholic Fapstronaut

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    There's a difference between admiring a woman's beauty and eye-fucking her. Mentally undressing a woman and imagining yourself fucking her are not healthy behaviors. Nofap allows you to admire woman as a whole rather than a nice pare of tits or a nice ass. You don't have to avert your eyes every time a woman passes by just don't eye-fuck them.
     
  3. It all depends on your goals.

    I'm here because as a married man who is trying to become more like Christ, lusting after other women is counter-productive.
     
  4. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Well of course I mean this obviously is common sense... Do not walk around behind women with your tongue hanging out of your mouth to the floor obviously
     
  5. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    But what I'm saying is these Hypocrites on here saying do not even look at a woman to not even take a Second Glance.. Yada yada and then they turn around and say hey man have you noticed the benefit of women staring at you have they started staring at you are you getting any more looks from the women now after nofap yada yada yada..
     
    SaltedPeter likes this.
  6. Hm. Well, first off, in order to validate your point, you'd have to show some evidence there are guys here that have actually said to not look at women and then those same guys report feeling happy from women staring at them.

    But let's pretend this is true anyway for the sake of argument.

    You are correct, for the most part. I mean, thinking about girls all the time is a bit counter-productive. There obviously is more to life than just women, but yes, this is a common goal for guys trying to abstain, including myself.

    Some guys also report that abstaining helps them view women as equals as opposed to something that has to be fucked and thrown to the side. However, I cannot testify personally on experiencing this effect.

    But you're assuming that the people that write these stories and experiencing these benefits are the same people that say to not even look at a woman. Nor can it be validated that those people agree with the party associated with the opinion of never looking at girls.

    You must understand that we're men. Typically, especially if the girl is attractive, we love even lustful attention from girls, excluding guys that are married and have no desire to have girls chasing them or to chase girls and other exceptions.

    As far as men are concerned, we take that attention as a compliment, regardless of whether or not it's "eye-fucking" or geniune interest.

    Women, not as much. For them, that kind of attention from guys tends to be regarded as bothersome or creepy and nobody likes creeps except other creeps.
     
    Reborn16 likes this.
  7. Hi ClassicCase. There is clearly a misunderstanding here, perhaps with other members in this community and perhaps with you. Please bear with me and let me explain what I mean...

    There are two separate processes here: rebooting and rewiring. Both are required for a successful outcome, but they have different objectives and may not always run alongside each other at the same time. Let's take them one at a time.
    As you rightly point out, porn is fakery (as is mimicking intercourse with your hand). High speed internet porn in particular has caused addiction and damage to the brain's reward circuitry (fuelled by the neurotransmitter dopamine). I hope all in the community can agree with the definition from The Glossary and my additional comments about rebooting.

    Now, for most guys, in order to avoid that addiction being triggered and leading to relapse, they will steer clear of ALL sexual triggers for the first phase of their reboot. How long that is, is a matter of personal judgement and choice. I usually advise guys to avoid ALL sexual stimulus for the first three or four months. Otherwise, some would never last beyond a few days and would simply keep relapsing making a reboot impossible. Even those with sexual partners find that having sex with a real person slows down their reboot and they get strong urges to look at porn afterwards! It's true!

    You are quite right to say that the ultimate objective is to rewire our brains to real people. Some may choose to wait until they are fully rebooted to do this (so they can get to the end of their reboot in the shortest amount of time). Some will wait a few months and then allow themselves to begin their rewiring to real people. If some have a sexual partner or the opportunity for sex arises, they may choose to reboot and rewire at the same time (even though the rebooting will take longer and the risk of relapse is greater because of the chaser effect each time - see The Glossary).

    I think misunderstandings occur because people often do not articulate their goals in great detail and because there is so much scope to do this in whatever way you wish. I do not think it is hypocrisy and that may be an adjustment for you.
     
  8. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Well obviously man if your married you've got no business checking out other women I'm glad you're here getting help but that's common sense obviously...
     
    IR254 likes this.
  9. SaltedPeter

    SaltedPeter Fapstronaut

    Why does it bother you so much what others think ? There will be many times in recovery you wont agree with fellow addicts thats shit they have to work thru just like you have shit you have to work thru. Its called working your own program, not everyone else's it sounds rude but its not, do what works for you to keep you sober from P.
    Did you drive today or go outside see all those idiots driving, what will matter is how you drive not how they drive. You can't affect how they drive right, then don't let them affect how you do. I don't care what you do to stay sober if you come back in 5 years and this worked for you well great if it didn't well their yer sign. Don't let people take up real estate in your head whether someone says to look or don't ultimately comes down to your choice . Seen people fail at sobriety by simply worrying about everyone else's stuff. As I said you will find out soon enough if what they say is wrong or right.
    Now had you come on here asking for advice thats different but you didnt. So let it go and focus on you :)
     
    ClassicCase likes this.
  10. Stevenmdot

    Stevenmdot Fapstronaut

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    What are your thoughts when you see a sexy girl? Focus on your own intentions and I think you’ll know what’s “right” to do. If you can just glance at a body and say nice she works hard and continue on I think your better off than staring at an ass
     
    SaltedPeter likes this.
  11. There are a lot of different viewpoints on this site. A lot of it has nothing to do with PMO. A lot of it is just people's opinions. I just filter out what doesn't make sense to me. I'm using the method linked in my sig, as are a few others here. See this thread for a discussion on it.

    It's been a little while since I read The Book but I don't recall it saying anything about how you should think about women. There is no moralising, judging, or virtue signalling. It purely a practical guide for giving up PMO.

    As you say, this site is about helping you get clear of PMO. Anything else is irrelevant.
     
    ClassicCase likes this.
  12. SanSolo

    SanSolo Fapstronaut

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    I think it's important bear in mind that there are very few carved in granite rules about how to go about reboot, recovery, whatever. Every situation is different. If you don't feel that checking out a woman here and there is a problem for you then okay, go ahead. If another guy feels he has to discipline his eyes that way as part of his process then okay, do that.
     
  13. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Alllright dudes.. thanks for the replies.. I really liked what you all had to say.. very good stuff here.. Jack Harper and recoveringFap. If I seemed dismissive of your statements as common sense while your struggling with it I do apologise..
    I don't know it's just that I feel like sometimes some people here think women are so completely different than men... Well of course in some ways they are but in a lot of ways they're just like us.. I can understand the guy saying man I can't look at women right now because it's going to trigger me into pmo okay... But a guy saying oh man I can't look at women because if I train myself not to notice women and not to even glance at them that's going to make me a next-level man.. I cannot buy into that I'm sorry .. I would think if people noticed that you never looked at women never glanced at women they wouldn't say all that guys in next level man I would think they would start looking for other answers as to why this person never interacted looked or glanced at women you know what I'm talking about might be some of the other reasons they might not..

    But anyways.. it's true that I need to remember that everything i I read here is not NOFAPs official stance towards topics or certain things.. that there is just alot of opinion based on many different things..

    And y'all remember . I'm young on the path. I may discover I change my.mind about things.. but I'm only gonna be here long enuff to fully recover if possible.. I am prepared to go one full year for that end.. to be done with porn as a self pleasuring mechanism, and to recover the natural health of my penis. I don't think being attracted to real women is a problem at all, however being comfortable with them in Romantic or sexual situations will be.. But a healthy Penis I imagine will carry me a long way to that end.. I guess I came here with just like 2 very specific goals which I have found lots of information about and think that I am on a great path but I just keep wanting to read success stories that apply to me but all I'm getting is weird don't look at women your skin will be better, your voice will change you will have mysterious energy girls will notice you all this other kind of like benefits of NOFAP and then I'm just not after that stuff . If it happens great but if it doesn't I don't care I'm not looking for it what I'm looking for is my junk to work and to realize I'm never going to watch p*** again cuz that's what got myself into this situation in the first place...but I have to remember that other people are even though that I'm not you guys are totally correct
     
  14. Much Ado About Nutting

    Much Ado About Nutting Fapstronaut

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    This forum is full of guys that can't get a girlfriend and can't get laid. Instead of confronting their deepest insecurities and sexual anxiety and going after what they truly want (a real girl to have sex with) they try to avoid everything sexual. Permanent hard mode , no looking at girls, no thinking about girls etc. I try not to take seriously advice from guys with no sex life at all. Give up porn and go have sex with a girl... That's should be the plan
     
    SHGSH Foote, ClassicCase and SanSolo like this.
  15. Reborn16

    Reborn16 Fapstronaut

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    It's natural to observe someone's body language and make eye contact, especially if you are crossing paths... A kind of 'friend or foe? or potential mate?' virtual handshake takes place.

    I guess there is an unwritten rule to not look for more than a few seconds, unless you plan to interact with that person.

    Lately I will challenge myself if I know there's attractive girls around, to not look at them at all. Productive? I don't know.. builds discipline maybe. But it's probably more challenging to make eye contact, walk over and start a conversation. In that regard, I am staying in the comfort zone which should be challenged next.

    TLDR, looking at people is natural, more than a few seconds gaze should be followed up with a contact of some form (nod, wave, hi, smile)
     
    ClassicCase likes this.
  16. MindfulAchilles

    MindfulAchilles Fapstronaut

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    I personally consider what some mentioned here (eye-f’ing, ogling, lusting after) practices that do not make me a better person, and do not contribute to my happiness. That is why I work to stay away from them. Same goes for hookups, casual sex, mind-fapping/fantasy. I’m working towards a relationship, but with the goal that sex, attraction and sexual desire, be part of a committed married life within that relationship. (Yes, I’m religious, but do consider this to be part of understanding sexuality differently, not purely as a result of my religious convictions)

    Now, if that invalidates my opinion (as @Much Ado About Nutting suggested), I’m sorry. I do think it’s best to encourage people to take sexuality as a serious part of their being, and not a simple natural craving to be fulfilled by using people - even if those people are cool with that. I do question if casual sex is fact harmless, because it does remind me of many of the reasons porn is harmful and unfulfilling. I’ve found that some relate to this, including non-religious people frequenting these forums.

    I hope this is not too pointy, thankfully it is not churchy, but I leave this here knowing that the forum encourages people to think and consider all aspects of sexuality.
     
    ClassicCase and Deleted Account like this.
  17. SanSolo

    SanSolo Fapstronaut

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    On a lighter note...It got above 70 degrees farenheit where I live for the first time this year. And the ladies were dressed for it. A lot of temptation out there for those of us trying to lay off the eye candy.
     
  18. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Lol... The super tight short shorts are a coming lol.. better get your no looking game on point real fast lol..
     
  19. Reborn16

    Reborn16 Fapstronaut

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    Meanwhile on my side winter is coming, which brings with it rain and yoga pants...

    There's just no season we aren't tested :) just don't spend too much time at the beach in summer lol
     
  20. ClassicCase

    ClassicCase Fapstronaut

    Winter brings out the dang tight pants and. Boots lol.. aaahhhhahhhhh
     

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