Masturbating once is not a "relapse" it's a "reset" - Risky/excessive masturbation can be a relapse.

Discussion in 'Problematic Sexual Behavior' started by Alexander, May 30, 2018.

  1. pajerito123

    pajerito123 Fapstronaut

    13
    9
    3
    Hey! nice post alex... just what i been looking for.

    Thanks Mordobarn for those websites... very interesting the mindful masturbation

    its impresive how many people here think that masturbation is bad... and i think i understand them. They have been M to porn and dirty thought for so many years that they (me included) just cant touch their pennis without activating their old habits. In response they prefer to come to the conclution that masturbation is inherently bad by following some logic debate in their head to abstain from the act itself and not to fall back in to the adiction. The problem with this approach is that their never break the linkage so whenever they touch their genitals they have to use porn or viceversa, when they see images or attractive girls they have to masturbate. It is inevitable that you relapse by taking this path because we live in a world with women, simple as that. You are constantly triggered.

    Its urgent to realice that the problem its the strong link between touching your pennis and fantasizing about porn. Once you start working on that, the urge to watch porn and masturbate excessively dissapear. The imagination was the adiction not the masturbation.

    Dont be to hard on yourself while trying to break the linkage between P and M. Because it is so strong, it is only normal that you will fantasize now and then in the process of recovery. You are still going in the right way just doing the attempt.

    I think the article mindful masturbation approach to this matter very well.

    Take care
    pajerito
     
  2. phwrancesco

    phwrancesco Fapstronaut

    1,268
    968
    113
    btw no. Masturbating once is a relapse.
     
  3. Understand the difference between a relapse and a reset, and how relapses occur within the brain.

    A reset is simply when you set your counter back to zero (hence "re-set"). It applies when you fail at your goal. If your goal is to not masturbate, and you masturbate, that's a reset. Likewise if your goal is to not drink alcohol, lie in bed too late, etc.

    A relapse, in this context, is a medical thing. It's what happens to your brain's pathways and dopamine receptors. A total relapse is when you go right back to your worst level of addiction, which is easy to do if you binge-PMO. A total relapse for one person isn't the same as a total relapse for another.

    A partial relapse is when you do something that causes pathways and dopamine receptors to revert only partially.

    It's not possible to be certain about the extent, or even the existence, of a relapse without cutting your brain open (metaphorically, because cutting it open would destroy all pathways). However, a serious relapse is obvious by its effects, while a slight relapse can look like no relapse at all.

    A serious relapse takes a while to recover from, whereas a slight relapse usually means fast recovery provided that you behave appropriately.

    Does occasional masturbation without porn, p-subs, masturbation games or while with a partner cause a relapse? There isn't an absolute answer to this, because it depends on the individual. Masturbation, subject to the caveats just mentioned, is likely to cause a slight relapse or even no relapse in a person who has recovered, but could give a more serious relapse to someone still in the addiction stages.

    The point here is to avoid absolutes. There are 7½ billion people in this world — who knows how many of them are addicted? — and it would be a colossal mistake to assume that every single person is the same.
     
    Knighthawk likes this.
  4. FeitanX

    FeitanX Fapstronaut

    10
    111
    28
    Th
    THANK YOU!
     
  5. Awedouble

    Awedouble Fapstronaut

    Semantics aside we can just say what exactly was done. How many times did someone PMO, how long did they edge for? That's objective information and not how someone identifies with how the words are used. Of course sometimes people are in such a haze they couldn't even tell you except that maybe it was multiple hours and it was O once or more than once. Even when it was once and I just went to bed the next morning I've been in such a fog that for a moment I wasn't sure if I did act out the night before, but I did. And the night before that. And the night before that. Not a good sign no matter what we call it.

    Numbers.
     
    Mordobarn likes this.
  6. I think this in an important distinction. A reset doesn’t have to be a relapse. If it’s an isolated incident and you get back on track you’re not losing a ton of progress therefore no need to call it a relapse.
     
  7. Byzek

    Byzek Fapstronaut

    8
    1
    3
    For me its a relapse.
    I masturbate every 2 or 3 weeks and i feel a lil bit unwell after that
     
  8. No its all fake. Masturbation IS A RELAPSE.
    You WILL have less self control after your RELAPSE. You will likely quit nofap AFTER you had an O from M. Not deciding to quit while on a streak.
    You will most likely BINGE MASTURBATE when you relapse, since your nerves grew more sensitive while you were on a streak. It is easy to get MORE ADDICTED than you were before!
    If you watched porn when you relapsed after a long streak BE PREPARED that you will grew more fetishes than you started with.

    Stay safe, minimise the chance of RELAPSE also minimise the damage of incoming RELAPSES install as many p blockers as possible. If you relapse, you should at least minimise the damage with not watching porn while relapsing.
     
    tonyk1982 likes this.
  9. Woah! Occasional masturbation, without games, edging, etc., and obviously without porn, is not a relapse. (A relapse is a description of something that happens within your brain.) It might be a reset, depending on your goals, but it isn't a relapse.

    While some people will indeed allow masturbation to lead to a relapse using porn and games, not everyone responds in that way.
     
  10. You gave into your craving? -Yes
    You touched youself? -yes
    Did you do the habbit you try to get rid of? Absolutelly. Its a relapse.
    There is a reason why people ditch pmo and not just p. If you decided to ditch m too, than its definitelly a relapse.
    Plus, I've never seen anyone who kept their mentality about nofap after a relapse. Usually people don't just fail once, they will have a hard time catching back afterwards. It IS sometimes even harder to start over after a relapse than at the start of your journey. How is that not a relapse? You get basically into negative at your recovery.
     
  11. No. In that case, it's a reset, not a relapse. A relapse is what happens in your brain when the pathways are messed up and the dopamine receptors are compromised. Occasional masturbation without games or porn doesn't cause that to happen to your brain. If you want to argue the point, argue with the scientists, not with me.
     
  12. I'm pretty sure none of us is a neurologist. Other than that, there is a reason, why addicts get locked into rehab. Relapses do hurt your brain even more after a period of insensitification. After a while, of any drug usage and porn usage you get too much used to the drug you get less and less reward for consuming the same amount. But if you start to make yourself sensitive again, you will get a huge amount of happiness. I'm pretty sure 95% of nofappers will have shorter series after a relapse. Like significantly shorter. I'm sure most people cant last a week after a relapse. Longer the streak of the relapse, harder to not relapse again in a short term.

    So I'm pretty sure that after the first relapse which releases the most dopamine gets your pathways messed up and does lenghten your recovery compared to "what if you couldn't " relapse.
    I'm also sure that a huge percentage of people fails to maintain the standards they could keep before they relapsed. They will fantasize more, they avoid the triggers less , and they eventually fail sooner than they could last before a relapse.

    This is what I found at addictions.com under definition of relapse.


    " Relapse is the recurrence of a prior condition, usually representing a negative connotation such as the return of an illness after a period of improvement, or also, in the context of abuse substance, the re-initiation of drug-seeking behaviors and the resumption of use after a period of abstinence.

    Like many other chronic illnesses, addiction is a chronic, relapsing, brain disease that, while treatable, is almost never cured. Even when drugs are unavailable for long periods or when users are successful in curbing their drug use for extended periods, individuals remain vulnerable to events that precipitate relapse. "

    "re-initiation of drug-seeking behaviors and the resumption of use after a period of abstinence" Doesn't defines quantity, doesn't even mentions neurons or pathways in your brain.
    It mentions "drug-seeking" and drug use.
    If you are addicted to masturbation and would like to get rid of it, (people who do stay away from pmo not just p )
    Then "drug seeking" = failing to avoid temptations, closing your door, preparation for the action (tissues etc)
    and "drug use" = pulling your trousers down and masturbating.

    Other interesting fact is, "individuals remain vulnerable to events that precipitate relapse" that means you are never cured. If you can't avoid triggers, you will relapse eventually.

    I would say, "re-initiation of drug-seeking behaviors and NOT resumption of use after a period of abstinence" should count as a reset.
    That way, you did fail to resist your addiction, but you couldn't consume your drug. (Like you would like to visit your dealer, but you found out that he was arrested by the police, so you can't buy drugs.) Or you want to watch porn, but your blocker catches you. Or you want to masturbate but someone comes in.
    That way, you don't get your dopamine rush, and don't compromise your pathways.

    Other than that, "occasional consumption" doesn't exist. Thats a relapse.
    Let's say we lock a bottle of whiskey in a safe. You and an alcohol addict has the key. You both agree not to touch the whiskey for X amount of time. X can be one week, one month one year, anything. Since, you are not addicted you pretty much can do any amount of time. If you agree not to seek out alcohol for any length of time, you can do that. You can stop yourself from drinking untill your end of life if you tried.
    Yet you haven't made such agreements so you are free to use alcohol any time in your life. Knowing that whenever you decide to not drink anymore, you could do it. You can drink occasionally, meaning time between drinking can be any lenght of time. It can be a year, or two years etc.
    An alcoholic can't do that. He can't promise you, he wont drink for a period of time. He may be able to hold himself back for X-1 amount of time, but he can't say any length of time he can hold himself back. This is why there is no such thing as "occasional drinking" for him. Its "regular drinking" for him just with huge delays between drinking. By the way, most likely the delays between drinks will get shorter over time.

    Same with masturbation if you are addicted to it.
    If you weren't you could state you could hold back for any amount of time. That doesn't mean you won't masturbate ever, it just means you won't have the temptation to do it. Like imagine that your girlfriend wanted to see you masturbating. If she asked you to do it, and you did it than you occasionally masturbate. She may ask you again to see you do it. She may also never ask you again, you don't know.
    If you masturbate because of your own reasons, you are masturbating regularly. Once every X amount of time. That means, if X time passes you most likely masturbated once in that period of time.
    An addict will never turn into a non addict, but if X you can lengthen X amout of time so much that it gets longer than ones lifetime, thats good enough.
     
    Dizzy Lotus likes this.
  13. Thats not true for most people.
    First of all, not all folks doing nofap have any problems with erections. So the "get hard and reach orgasm without thinking about porn" part is not true.
    Second of all, you can't cure an addiction. Not only porn addiction, any addiction. Once addicted, you are addicted in your whole life. You can only be careful and can be clean for a long enough time.
    Third of all, people not try to reduce the frequency of pmo, they try to avoid porn entirely.
    Three times a month doesn't cut it for most people. In fact, three times a month will only worsen back to three times a week very quickly.
    Also, a lots of people developed porn induced fetishes they don't like. Maybe they don't even think about those when not watching porn. That problem does also not get solved when you still watch porn, as a habbit.
     
  14. Md.Tahmid

    Md.Tahmid Fapstronaut

    36
    75
    18
    Hey,I am in a 90 day pmo Challeng. And I am in my 47th day.From day one to this day I didn’t watch porn and didn’t masterbate. But It was kind of my habit to put my hand to my genital when I am alone. And yesterday night I was sleeping alone on my room. At 1:00 am I wake up and being naked I put my hand to my genital.but It was unconsciously and I masterbate without watching porn . After masterbate I remember that I am in a pmo challenge.So do I have to start my challange from day one? Please tell me fast.
     
  15. Dude, you are okay. Don't let it bother you. The main thing is NO PORN.
     
  16. Md.Tahmid

    Md.Tahmid Fapstronaut

    36
    75
    18
    Oh,,,now I can move on with pleasure. But just make sure that can I move on from day 47???
     
    Ogikubo likes this.
  17. Yes. However, do not focus so much on the number of days. Every day is day #1.
     
  18. Md.Tahmid

    Md.Tahmid Fapstronaut

    36
    75
    18
    Okey, brother. I am starting from day one.thank you for clearing everything.But why should I think everyday is day [email protected]
     
  19. I think you misunderstood. You do not need to start your counter from day one. Please continue from day 47 (or whatever you completed).
    "Every day is day one" means every day is a new day and a new chance to improve yourself.
    I am sorry for not being more clear. Good luck.
     
  20. Dack Gun

    Dack Gun Fapstronaut

    9
    10
    3
    Can someone give me tips to stop masturbating and stay committed? I guess loneliness really gave me those urges and temptation to do it. I have never been in a relationship and I don't have a really close pal to talk about it, perhaps those are the reasons of causing me to feel lonely. Each time I relapsed, I feel depressed and even made me feel lonely. The problem is, I already know the consequences of doing it, but I kept doing it, I just can't help with it.
     

Share This Page