People's Obsession With Wealth

Discussion in 'Self Improvement' started by unimportant, Sep 9, 2020.

  1. WaterNewt

    WaterNewt Fapstronaut

    Thanks for the info! 400 km is still really good indeed! I really wonder what happened.. Someone must have made the chose to scrap it or something. But I wouldn't be surprised if it had something to do with electrical infra. One of the biggest problems right now in NL is the electrical grid's capacity.(i'm an engineer btw) The wires are too thin to transport enough power. On 10kV station made in 2020 can only supply 12 houses if they also have charging stations. And from what I know, the grid in 1999 was very under developed, at least here. So if we were to quickly change to electrical cars, our grid couldn't take it and especially in 1999.

    However, why didn't they safe this technology for now? The car that they now produce sucks, like you said.

    I freaking hate lobbying so much. It is just legal corruption. Of course it can be used for good, but we both know what happens. :/

    I am kinda busy now, but I really want to watch that doc!
    Akeakua and The Passenger like this.
  2. WaterNewt

    WaterNewt Fapstronaut

    Great argument! I love how you just state that, even without giving an argument.
    Man no wonder that you want to force people, you don't have anything! No values, virtues, nothing!

    Don't worry mate, I have been just like you. I hated everyone and thought that my idea's were perfect. I also wanted to force everyone. But why? What is good? What is bad? Why do I even continue living? Is there a thing like reason?

    Be rational and stay away from nihilism.
    Stay safe :)

  3. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut


    Objectivity implies an objective perspective. The only way this could exist is a god. Since all perspectives and understandings are subjective, objectivity is nonsense. There is no way to prove something is true, as all perspectives on truth are subjective. This leads down the useless ideology of solipsism, though dangerous and not to be used as a basis for world view, it does serve a point as it illustrates the peak of true understanding we can know to exist.

    Ayn Rand is a useless and uneducated perspective which collapses in on itself the moment you ask why it matters that greed is good (bs). The whole point is to say that you are actually helping society by being greedy, which isn't greedy. So it fails by default. If the goal is to help society, that is by necessity not selfish and not greedy, so being greedy is counterproductive to that aim. You may say "oh noooooo it's greedy in economy, not in aid to society." which not only contradicts her several times in the book but is also a ludicrous assertion with countless refutations.
  4. theMotivator

    theMotivator Fapstronaut

    I experimented with not buying things for a long time and then buying things frequently. I noticed, that when I didn't have much money and didn't buy anything much, then I was less stressed about buying something. And I didn't really want to buy anything after a long time.
    But there were things, that I really wanted all the time (small things, but still). I bought them, and it improved my life a little bit, but I don't feel fulfilled afterward.

    But from the other side, I'm a worried all the time (some problems, that are stretching into time) and I don't even want to eat sometimes, because I don't really enjoy it, so that may influence that.
  5. WaterNewt

    WaterNewt Fapstronaut

    You didn't watch the video or just refused to watch the entire thing.
    There is an objective standard, an apple is an apple is it not? A = A? Everyone can precieve that these things are objectivly true. Your assumption that there are no absolutes is inheritly wrong. I will quote from galt's speech.

    “There are no absolutes,” they chatter, blanking out the fact that they are uttering an absolute.

    I would also refer you to

    "The standard of value of the Objectivist ethics—the standard by which one judges what is good or evil—is man’s life, or: that which is required for man’s survival qua man.

    Since reason is man’s basic means of survival, that which is proper to the life of a rational being is the good; that which negates, opposes or destroys it is the evil.

    Since everything man needs has to be discovered by his own mind and produced by his own effort, the two essentials of the method of survival proper to a rational being are: thinking and productive work."

    The goals is not to help society, it is to help one's own selfish needs.
    Never is it mentioned that one has to help "society". Never is it mentioned that greed is bad nor good( I would say generally bad since it leads to bad choices).
    Your idea that objectivsm is about: "The whole point is to say that you are actually helping society by being greedy" is complety wrong.

    Again watch the video.
    Akeakua likes this.
  6. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

    I don't need to watch the video, the debate on objectivism has long since past, hell, since before Descartes' time. These are just kids thinking for the first time in their life and reaching the same initial conclusions everyone else reaches. After further thought they will realize that the concept of proof is subjective, there is no ability to observe without a subjective observer, so nothing can be objective. I recommend contemplating the concept of proof, and how something can actually be "known".
  7. Akeakua

    Akeakua Fapstronaut

    Why do you use language like "unsolved", "solution", and "ignorance"? Why do you care so much then? Why are you so involved in this discussion?
    Roady likes this.
  8. SickSicko

    SickSicko Fapstronaut

    Collective objectivism is a fact, also there is a God, maybe not what you think it is, but there is, mate, everything you are saying, is what I did think myself about 8+ years ago, you are the one that sounds like a kid thinking for the first time to me...
  9. red gyarados

    red gyarados Fapstronaut

    Admit it, Mitsubishi hasn’t made anything cool in years (I wish they made that electric eclipse)
  10. Kramum

    Kramum Fapstronaut

    "Money can't buy you happiness"
    Show me a happy person that often goes hungry.
    Show me a happy person that sleeps rough in the streets.
    Show me a happy person that can't pay for a doctor, or God forbid a surgery.
    Show me a happy person that can't pay a for a surgery for his pet/child.
    Show me a happy person that works his butt off in a toxic environment, full of colleague and customer assholes, because they can't afford not going to work because bills.
    Show me a happy person that works for a boss that wouldn't notice if they died, doesn't pay them what they are worth, and doesn't really appreciates them.
    Show me a happy person that has a family and bills to provide for that is about to be laid off because someone who works there longer than they have has lied to the boss about them simply because they don't like that new person, and now the person expects to be let go any day, wondering how to make for a living when finding a job is a mighty pain in the ass, knowing full well the consequences of not having a job.

    I could go on and on. For instance, show me a happy person stuck in a traffic 5 days a week for over 20 minutes, show me a happy person that can't go on holiday without first getting permission from their master, show me....

    The moral of the story is: yes, money in fact can buy you happiness. And I will go as far as to say that in this world having money is key to happiness.
    SickSicko and red gyarados like this.
  11. I just wanna go live in the woods with a small village nearby and I wanna make real relationships with those villagers and wanna marry a beautiful woman there. Just a small and simple life. Thats my dream.
  12. OhWhenThe

    OhWhenThe Fapstronaut

    I think you're perhaps missing the point somewhat.

    Obviously a person requires the basic necessities to be happy, no one is going to be happy when they're flat out broke, hungry and living out of a cardboard box. I'm pretty sure the OP means this obsession with extreme wealth that a lot of the public have. They don't just want a nice house/apartment, they want a mansion. They don't just want a nice functional car, they want a super car. They don't just want the occasional holiday, they want to live on holiday. I'm not saying people shouldn't desire these things, they can desire what they want but not everyone is driven by wealth. Would I take these things if offered? Yeah sure but I don't think they improve my quality of life greatly and I'm by no means rich, I think you quickly hit the point of diminishing returns when it comes to happiness and money.
    unimportant likes this.
  13. Pffft they really screwed up with ceasing the production of Lancer EVO series :emoji_angry:
  14. eagle rising

    eagle rising Fapstronaut

    From what I can tell all of us ending up in this NoFap forum is a result of greed, selfishness, apathy, and egocentricism. The adult entertainment industry has resulted from greed, selfishness, apathy, and egocentricism. It is a +billion dollar industry. Their existence has resulted in us becoming addicted to all types of novelty. They are wealthy and there are individuals in that industry that constantly try to belittle our struggle (our addiction). They care not for others, they just want our money. The same goes for alcohol production, cigarette production, and the pharmaceutical industry. All greedy people who have become apathetic because all they care about is profit. These are all results of the want to acquire wealth.

    Humans are capable of being both objective and subjective, and any ideology that suggests one over the other is quite frankly unrealistic. When we aren't driven by our wants and desires (the superficial ones) we can be objective. When we are lost in our addictions we become apathetic, selfish, and egocentric, and therefore our view of the world becomes subjective.

    Greed is also a form of an addiction, the acquisition of things is our evolutionary forces gone awry.
  15. unimportant

    unimportant Fapstronaut

    Since you must perceive what would be objective (say, the color of your desk), through subjectivity (your perceptions), I don't believe objectivity is possible. Presumably however, you are using the terms very loosely, so I can agree that your wants and desires can become clouded when wrought with addiction.

    The thing this all points out is, we have competing wants. Take labor for example. People often say "I don't want to go to work" but, they must, otherwise they would not go. It just isn't as pleasurable as other wants they have.

    Yes, you may also want to stay home and that could be built on other wants like watching a show or painting, but nevertheless your wanting to go to work is stronger as it is based on wanting to avoid homelessness, wanting to eat next month, etc.

    In other words, I believe we are purely driven by our wants and desires.
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  16. ThePeakWae

    ThePeakWae Fapstronaut

    I think at it´s base, seeking complete Wealth is like seeking a complete physical, mental and monetary investment longterm.

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