Pick-Up is Bullshit

PUA is not bullshit, point is most guys do the wrong things around women. They buy them flowers and communicate their FEELINGS to them at much too early a stage in their friendship/relationship.

Don't get me wrong if you become a MAN you will be naturally successful around women, PUA merely provides the means to do damage limitation. And this is good. When you're become a MAN you don't need these tricks. But saying this is nonsense is nonsense.

Those who are anti-pua go completely off on a tangent and never take risks, like asking women out. If you're 24 and never had a relationship, then guess what - you're not in the norm bracket. Date a fat/ugly girl, do something. This is normal, pick-up helps you get on the ladder.

I genuinely believe any straight guy who is past 20 and never had relationship, is abnormal. The way they perceive the opposite sex is abnormal. Porn is one cause of this.

 

That particular site differs quite a bit from the normal PUA stuff. I wouldn't even consider it as one.
It has more in common with this site
http://www.succeedsocially.com/
which is just advice on getting along with people.



I find with a lot of advice, both PUA and more generic is that it makes what should be simple so complicated. Also I can see it making it even harder in some ways to talk like a normal person. I don't mean in terms of running weird routines but rather say having to keep stages in mind. Oh am I in this stage, do I need to show sexual interest now or is it too soon, oh no protection is not showing enough... It would be enough to drive someone nuts or at least take one out of the conversation and a focus on the other person.

OTOH if you are not very good at talking to people and don't know how to esculate properly you have to learn somehow.

 

I am not a fan of the PUA but I don't think anyone can argue with this. I resmeble that remark and I can admit that it is true.

 

Totally on point.

The cornerstone of PUA is practice.

If you did no PUA whatsoever and just approached every human you saw you would develop improved social skills. You'd find yourself a plethora of friends. You'd probably be dating a girl if not potentially dating more than one. This is if you made a conscious effort to engage everyone you see every day.

But I guess you can't do that because approach is a dynamic of PUA... and PUA is bullshit?

 

For the most part the only people who randomly talk to me are either old people who are desperate for someone to talk to, the retarded and people who want me to join team jesus.


If and attractive girl approached me I'd be flattered but if a fugly chud approached me as desperate as I am I'd be creeped out.

I've been told this by 2 girls of vastly differing ages and have read it also.

 

Goodness gracious.

That's one way to go about it, but you know there are others.
For instance you could marry young, to a woman who accepts you for richer or poorer, who is committed to taking care of herself and supporting you as you progress in life, and then spend the next 50-60 years "[NSFW]fucking, licking, and humping [/NSFW]" each other until your bodies can't do it anymore (which is LONG after you look like a pair of disgusting old prunes to outsiders).

Marriage sounds like a bad plan if you expect it will fail (giving it 50/50 odds) and it's an extremely stupid plan if you feel you need to get your wild, sexy urges "out of your system" before you even begin. That's the very stuff that you and your partner are supposed to be explore together, and continue improving on. And I would recommend not having kids. They cost as much as you can possibly spare, and they don't deserve to be raised by people who regard producing them as the end of the fun times in life.

So, congrats on not falling for the tales of charlatans looking to profit off of desperate lonely guys. Good luck on improving yourself and making money. That can only help. But don't expect everything to fall into place once you've got your money. You're still going to have to learn how to interact positively with the owner of the "[NSFW]hot pussy[/NSFW]". Otherwise, all the self-improvement in the world isn't going to do you a hill of beans good.

 

The divorce rate is 50% but 54% of those divorces were due to porn use. Just by going PMO free you've given yourself a 76% success rate.

 

I don't know if that is true but the divorce rate does vary like crazy among different demographics.

You take a couple of college educated well employed jebus types, toss in no substance abuse issues, from intact families and not knocked up beforehand and the odds of that marriage lasting are actually pretty damn good.

You get a couple of high school dropouts who married because neither of them can figure out birth control, whose hobbies include meth and crack and live on the dole and are both on their second or third marriage, both from dysfunctional homes and you can almost be sure that they are doomed.

 

If that is true, could you give a case study? I'm curious if that is really true. I could see it being a major issue, but 25% of all divorces are caused by porn.
I'm actually going through and finalizing my divorce, but i wouldn't say that porn was the sole cause. In all our issues i would say it was 15-20% role.

Anyways i was just curious where you got that figure.

 

Oops it's actually 56% of divorces are due to porn.

Reference:

1. Manning J., Senate Testimony 2004, referencing: Dedmon, J., "Is the Internet bad for your marriage? Online affairs, pornographic sites playing greater role in divorces," 2002, press release from The Dilenschneider Group, Inc.

Another source, the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers, polled 350 divorce attorneys in 2003 where two thirds of them reported that the Internet played a significant role in the divorces, with excessive interest in online porn contributing to more than half such cases.

I would venture to say that those stats have significantly increased.

 

According to the titles of your sources you would have to say porn is playing a role in divorces, rather than divorces are due to porn. Please be accurate when going scientific.

 

Yup-a-roo. In other news, male unemployment is a huge risk factor for divorce, as is depression, as is alcohol abuse, as is low educational attainment. And porn, and infidelity, and alienation of affection. Add up the divorces "caused" by each of these things, and you'll get far more than 100%. Because many of these problems tend to come together, sadly.

 

So I've been following this thread yesterday and today. I think it has drifted from the original topic (which is OK). To sum it all up, I would say that we all agree that P can damage relationships and can/does contribute to divorces. I think we also agree that PUAs aren't awesome. And I think both points boil down to trying to get something that ought to come from a real relationship without forming that relationship. PUAs often want to score without building too much of a relationship first. And PMO does the same with no real relationship. You score on yourself. Nobody likes that.

I also think this is tied to the wider problem of objectification. When we view people as people instead of things to be used, we are much more likely to find a real and rewarding relationship.

 

Incorrect, the vast majority of PUAs or wannabe PUAs as I call them were drawn to the subject after years and years of non successful relationships. These guys are the ones that are way too shy and socially introverted to know what they are doing. Most don't even like the idea of serial dating, they're simply looking for resources to get the one girl and keep her. To be honest this is what everyone is looking for.

Today's dating game is tough if you're introverted. It's just another way to self improve yourself. Of course there will always be those that give it a bad name, but you go to any PUA forum and you'll find wide swathes of posters are just virgin kids looking to get a girlfriend.

 

Picking up on someone is not the same as cultivating a relationship. And I was addressing what PUAs and wannabe PUAs are hoping for.

I haven't found that PUA advice is all that great at keeping someone around. And at least to me if someone is not interested in serial dating but wants to 'get' that girl, he isn't primarily out there to get a relationship so much as to 'get some' or satisfy himself. That is the paradigm I see among PUAs and I don't feel it is compatible with fostering healthy and lasting relationships. You may disagree with my view and that's just fine. It's merely my opinion.

 

PUA is made by dweebs for dweebs.

NoFap is all you need. Social interaction is a skill, and takes experience like anything else that's all.

 

Again, this is incorrect. I'd say 90% of the PUA forum boards are not aspiring lotharios who just want to pick up girls. 90% of the forums don't have a clue what to do around girls. And BTW picking up girls is the same as asking a girl out to start a relationship. If you don't know how to ask a girl out properly then the relationship will never start. What you see in the movies, where friendships grow into relationships or whatever it is you mean by 'cultivating a relationship' is science fiction.

There's are two main lines of pick-up theory. One is largely superficial. The other is called 'inner game.' Inner game is about keeping the girl developing the social skills and lifestyle that any woman would find attractive. I think you have this perception that all PUAs are just interested in one night stands. No I'd say most wannabe PUAs are most interested in starting a long term relationship with a girl they like.

 

Haha I like PUA. Not for the massive amounts of women and succes you're supposed to get. Not for the fact that you will be drowned in pussy either.

For the simple fact that it's a toxic habit that doens't improve you in the most simple way.


They came up with all types of openers which we're supposed to work, making her like you. One night of fun wont make her love your forever mate.

And that's when I started reading 'Models' by Mark Manson. As a former PUA coach he was so fed up with all the staggering bullshit they were taught, he decied to write his own book. The book contains not only great life advice, but is the stepping stone to becoming a more honest man who is comfortable with his emotions and can express them aswell.

Best contemporain non-fiction book I've read.

 

Most of the PUAs I've been paying attenion to are big strong guys who don't use openers at all. One even said not to worry about being smooth. Of course, he also warned that cold approach isn't for everyone and that most people don't have the dedication to get where he is. Shit started demoralizing me after a while, sometimes I can see why people read the mainstream shit instead.