Star Trek Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by Pentatonic, Jun 17, 2021.

  1. Pentatonic

    Pentatonic Fapstronaut

    Favorites:
    • The Next Generation: Measure of a Man
    • Deep Space 9: Agh... that's a hard choice. :emoji_joy: Maybe... In The Pale Moonlight
    • Voyager: Despite its flaws... Scorpion: Part 1
    Worst:
    • The Next Generation: I'm not sure... there's a lot of episodes in this show I don't like, especially in the first two seasons. Maybe Code of Honor.
    • Deep Space 9: The one where Quark is a "woman". Can't recall the episode name.
    • Voyager: Threshold.
    I can't decide on a favorite or an episode I hate in Enterprise, though.
     
  2. Pentatonic

    Pentatonic Fapstronaut

    Jadzia: "And as the 34th Rule of Acquisition states: 'Peace is good for business'".

    Quark: "That's the 35th Rule."

    Jadzia: "Oh, you're right. What's the 34th?"

    Quark: "'War is good for business.' It's easy to get them confused."

    I chuckled. :p
     
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  3. Vanquisher12

    Vanquisher12 Fapstronaut

    I can't think of specific episodes for most series, but I categorise them in generic groups based on the stories they tell.

    Original Series
    Favourite Episodes: 'The Cage', 'The Menagerie', 'Arena', 'The Trouble with Tribbles', 'Mirror, Mirror', 'Bread and Circuses'
    Least Favourite episodes: Pretty much all the others

    Next Generation
    Favourite episodes: Any Holodeck-oriented episode or any episode featuring Q.
    Least Favourite episodes: Any episode featuring Wesley or involving one of his mother's emotional crises.

    Deep Space Nine
    Favourite episodes: Any Ferengi-oriented, Mirror Universe, Vic Fontaine or war-themed episode.
    Least Favourite episodes: Any episode themed around Bajoran culture or involving stubborn Bajorans. I'm probably the one Trek fan who sympathises more with the Cardassians than the Bajorans, because I just think the Bajorans in general are such a pathetic race, with no redeemable cultural value or qualities and benefitting hugely from the 'more humanoid aliens good, less humanoid aliens evil' mantra. The only Bajoran I had any respect for was Prime Universe Bareil and he died.

    Voyager
    Favourite episodes: Any Q-themed, Holodeck/Doctor-oriented or Borg, Hirogen and/or Species 8472-themed episode.
    Least Favourite episodes: Can't think of any particularly awful episodes here, will have to think more about this one.

    Enterprise
    Favourite episodes: Xindi arc, 'In a Mirror, Darkly'
    Least Favourite episodes: Can't think of any particularly awful episodes here, will have to think more about this one.
     
  4. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Nah, loads of people think this lol. That's where the "Gul Dukat did nothing wrong" meme comes from.

    gul dukat.jpg
     
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  5. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I realise I was the one who asked the question, but it's so hard to pick my favourite episodes. For Voyager and Enterprise, I feel I need to rewatch to reassess the shows as a whole. As for TNG and DS9, there are few episodes I despise, and so many I really like. I find that my opinions change when I watch episodes and the rankings go up and down. I'll try and list a few that stand out to me right now.

    TNG: Conspiracy, Samaritan Snare, Peak Performance, Q Who, Where Silence Has Lease, Who Watches the Watchers, Booby Trap, The Most Toys, Family, Future Imperfect, The Wounded, First Contact, Night Terrors, The Nth Degree, The Drumhead, Darmok, Chain of Command, Tapestry, Parallels, and Pre-emptive Strike.

    DS9: Duet, Cardassians, Armageddon Game, Whispers, Paradise, The Wire, Tribunal, The Search, House of Quark, Fascination, Past Tense, The Die is Cast, Facets, The Adversary, The Visitor, Homefront/Paradise Lost, Hard Time, For the Cause, To the Death, The Quickening, Trials and Tribbleations, For the Uniform, By Purgatory's Shadow/By Inferno's Light, Children of Time, In the Cards, Call to Arms, the six part season 6 opener, Statistical Probabilities, The Magnificent Ferengi, Waltz, Far Beyond the Stars, Inquisition, In the Pale Moonlight, and I need to rewatch all of season 7.
     
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  6. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    Lmao. Now thats funny.
     
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  7. Pentatonic

    Pentatonic Fapstronaut

    I can't disagree with this either. I don't mind their religion and culture, but Bajorans often come across as being very prone to violence, even mob violence, having a very sheep-like mentality, and generally being more likely to react based on their emotions as opposed to thinking critically. While the occupation was obviously terrible, it's really hard for me to feel bad for them. And of course, I too have more favorite Cardassian characters (Dukat, Damar, Garak) than I do Bajoran, my favorites being Kira and Winn.
     
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  8. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Good picks. I have to disagree with Move Along Home though. I found the episode to be weirdly clever, in that as the viewer you are expected to believe the aliens have this weird, lethal board game and that the risk is real, because that is what might happen in any other episode. It makes the final reveal, that the crew were never in any danger and the aliens are baffled by the crew's belief that they were, really funny to me. It's also fun seeing strange one-off aliens that have unique cultures. A stupid episode I guess but I had fun with it.

    I never skip episodes, even ones I know I dont like. If an episode I dislike comes up I just do something else while it plays in the background.

    I find the early seasons of TNG to have a charming hokey quality to them that I enjoy. The episode where Wesley is almost executed for stepping on a flowerbed is one of those "what the hell were they smoking when writing this" kinda stories that I find fun. For me, openly terrible episodes can be entertaining, the worst episodes for me are the ones that are boring, which is why it's so hard for me to say what my least fave episodes are: I cant remember them!

    Good picks. Are there really all that many episodes of TNG that focus exclusively on Wesley or Crusher though? I mean there are a few, but I can only remember a handful.

    I think to an extent the Bajorans are supposed to be like this. A problem I have noticed, and this is backed up by things the writers have actually said, is that as the show went on, the writers were shocked so many people liked Gul Dukat, so they went out of their way to turn him into a cartoonish caricature. I find this to be really aggravating to learn, as, upon my rewatch, I do find myself wondering more and more why Dukat wasn't just killed in the ending of Waltz. Everything he does after that point feels extremely out of character. I know he admits he hates the Bajorans in Waltz, but this doesnt mean he should have turned into an evil supervillain with completely different motives after that point.
     
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  9. Vanquisher12

    Vanquisher12 Fapstronaut

    I agree, I thought this one was good in particular because it shows even Quark has a degree of goodness within him as he begs the race owning the game to spare the players thinking they're aiming to kill his friends, as greedy and selfish as he is normally - I thought that was a good piece of character development there.

    Neither do I, I'll still watch the episode but when it ends I'll think 'Thank the Gods that one's over for another rewatch' and watch the next one with greater enthusiasm. I'll have a similar attitude to when I rewatch the Clone Wars if I can get it on DVD (if Disney ever release the stuff on Disney+ on DVD, which is by no means certain :rolleyes:).

    I can't remember them all off the top of my head, but even episodes that just have a few minutes where Wesley saves the ship or has some other moment of genius still counts as a subpar episode for me. The fact that he does feature in all of series 1-4 and some episodes after that mean he never seems to disappear for long. Additionally once he leaves we are then treated to more of his mother's mental crises as a replacement.

    I think you could easily attribute that to his descent into madness after Ziyal's death, certainly that's what I believe to be the cause of that behaviour in the last couple of series.
     
  10. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I've greatly enjoyed every episode of season 7 so far. Chrysalis is another good story about the augments. Treachery, Faith, and the Great River is a good example of two tonally different A and B plots working together. Once More Unto the Breach is perhaps forgettable but enjoyable. The Siege of AR-558 is a classic.
     
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  11. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Good point. I love Quark's slow character development over the series, and other character's changing reactions to him.

    I do agree both Crushers are annoying. Wesley is a net-negative character and Beverly is easily the worst doctor in Trek.

    That's the in-universe reason, but the meta reason is the writers didn't like that fans took such a liking to Dukat so they exaggerated his evilness in later seasons to try and force people to dislike him. Apparently Mark Alaimo even brought up the "Dukat did nothing wrong" meme at conventions.
     
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  12. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    When I heard about that I was actually a little pissed off. What writer deliberately destroys a good character? They were shocked to learn so many people liked Dukat so they decided to write him poorly. What kind of fucking thought process is that? So fucking annoying.

    They did so many annoying things. IMO they turned Odo into a fuck boy, they turn Dukat into a kids cartoon villain, Ezri was just used for Worf and Bashir to bounce on and off of, Sisko becomes a space Jesus. God the writers made so many poor decisions towards the last 2 seasons, its frustrating sometimes. In the Pale Moonlight, Statistical Probabilities, Inquisition and a couple others carry the last seasons I feel.

    Dukat however takes the cake. That was a deliberate move on thier part. They intentionally made a character worse knowing it was bad and thier reasons were kind of pathetic.
     
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  13. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    Thought Id share this wonderful meme. If you like Picard and Discovery, that's fine. Just having some fun here. Star Trek beat up.jpg

    I don't know why they left out DS9 or Ent but it gets the point across.
     
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  14. Pentatonic

    Pentatonic Fapstronaut

    Damn, I've really got to be more active in this thread... it's just... I can't stop watching DS9. :emoji_joy::emoji_joy::emoji_joy: Damn, I love this show! So consistent in quality (usually), thought-provoking, and ridiculously entertaining. Today, I just finished Starship Down. One of my favorite episodes, from Quark showing that alien how fun gambling is in a very unique way, to Worf's interactions with the engineer crewmen, to Kira's and Sisko's relationship evolving. I ship them. I FRIENDship them. :emoji_joy: And then when the episode ends, Sisko finally lets down his walls around Kira and invites her to a baseball game. The huge grin that spreads across Kira's face is just so damn wholesome, I watched it twice. Couldn't help but grin with her. Great episode.

    Although I consider Dax's and Bashir's interactions with each other the weakest part of the episode, it was still very good in solidifying that they were (or Bashir, anyway) finally settling on just being friends. For good reason, too.

    I'll probably have to rewatch the show again once I finish my current rewatch of it just so I can start talking about specific episodes in this thread. And I look forward to it.

    Yeah, I'd take out "TOS" and replace it with DS9, at least. That said... great picture.

    Also, though... a question for all. What do we think of the character Bareil?
     
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  15. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    I really liked Bariel. I was pretty sad when he died. That is one of my favorite DS9 episodes.
     
  16. Pentatonic

    Pentatonic Fapstronaut

    Agreed, that was a good episode. I didn't expect to like it so much since I didn't remember it.
     
  17. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Sorry everyone for taking so long to reply. I've been active on a few threads and this one slipped through the net.

    Upon my rewatch I do think that the buildup to the war was better than the war itself. There are a lot of good things in the later seasons but those good things are balanced out by the bad. I really, really hate how Dukat is handled after Waltz. I dont dislike Ezri, but she's pointless and is clearly only there because of Terry Farrel being sacked or whatever happened to her. I also noticed how few episodes in the first half of season 7 feature a lot of the main cast prominently. There are many episodes where Sisko and Worf for example appear in one scene. What's up with that?

    I like Starship down. When I realised it was season 4 it felt weird, like damn it was like 60 episodes ago? I also like Bareil.
     
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  18. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    I've generally enjoyed season 7, but I am kinda coming around to the idea that seasons 3-5, ie the buildup to the war, are better than the war itself. What does everyone else think of seasons 6 and 7?
     
  19. gsherman100

    gsherman100 Fapstronaut

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    Well I know I talk bad about the last seasons quite often but that doesn't mean I hate them. I did hate the romance of Odo and Kira which was unbearable for me at times honestly but Season 6 did bring us In the Pale Moonlight, Inquisition and Waltz after all. Also not to mention Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night. That alone pretty much sealed the deal for season 6. Season 7 I have a love hate relationship with. I really liked Dumar's character arc, that's a huge plus for the season (Its nice to see, for the most part, a unused character suddenly get a cool arc). Not a huge fan of Ezri but I did like Prodigal Daughter, I feel like that is pretty much the only time you see her as an actual character with her own thoughts and feelings. And lets not forget the Promenade Tuxedo walk down scene.
     
  20. AtomicTango

    AtomicTango Fapstronaut

    Now I've seen more of it, I think I understand what the issue is, at least for me.

    The show spends AGES building up to the relationship, then when it happens, it has very little effect on anything on an episode to episode basis. We get moments where they are sat together in scenes, or they hold hands, or occasionally mention doing stuff together. We might get one or two episodes where it plays a role to a degree (like in the episode with the other Changeling where we learn Odo only stays away from his people because of Kira, something we already could have inferred anyway.) But we dont really get a proper sense that they actually have a relationship, it feels very surface level and in the background. Exactly the same as with Jadzia and Worf. After a couple of episode's worth of tension at the start of season 7, Worf has gone back to being the same as always, as though his relationship with Jadzia didnt happen. I know Worf is pretty stoic, and Klingons in general might not mourn for ages in an obvious manner, but this makes less compelling TV no matter the context.
     
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