Why does our culture ooze with sexuality yet discourage men's desire for it?

Discussion in 'Off-topic Discussion' started by DaSaltyPancake, Apr 15, 2020.

  1. DaSaltyPancake

    DaSaltyPancake Fapstronaut

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    This topic is a bit more political, yet it's something that has been running through my mind for the past few weeks in quarantine. Everywhere I go I see women wearing next to nothing. Shorts so short that they make you question the girl in question had a father at all. Sadly, this problem seems to be evolving over time. From the Victorian Era to now, women's sexualization has greatly become more normalized. In the wake of the #MeToo movement, women are discouraging men from acting on their natural desires that have been amplified by their sexual liberation. While I believe that Harvey Weinstein and Kevin Spacey are absolute scumbags for what they're done, my mind wonders if there is a link between these two juxtaposed cultures.

    Look at the red carpet and see hundreds of female celebrities immodestly exposing themselves and fanning the flames of male sexual instincts. In my mind, they are hypocrites. While they preach that men should quell their urges, they dress with their breasts near-exposed and butts on full-display. What do you guys think? Is there a link here or am I some blatant misogynist?
     
  2. PIEDSufferer

    PIEDSufferer Fapstronaut

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    Oh man, you gotta be careful raising such topics.:confused:

    Imagine you were on the beach with your shirt off, enjoying the sunshine. Suddenly, some beast of a man comes out of the shadows and has his way with you. When you report him, he makes the claim “Well, you ASKED for it. Shouldn’t have had your shirt off, and looking all sexy like that! Can’t be blamed for my urges!” You weren’t asking for this type of attention, right? But that’s also not to say you wouldn’t walk around with your shirt off to GET some attention, perhaps from a potential mate that you’d like to sleep with. The point is ALL humans want attention to an extent, but we want WELCOME attention. We dress up, we put on our best cologne, etc. But that doesn’t mean we want the attention of absolutely everyone. Just from the ones we WANT attention from. Women walk around dressed in sexy clothing..... Yes, they do want attention. They want the attention of potential mates. If you aren’t on her potential mate list, do us proud and control your urges. If you can’t control yourself, that’s on you, not her.

    The reason why this topic is risky is because it falls into the category of victim shaming. Think about how the average man acts: We “peacock” too. We act macho. We act in such ways that promote attraction from the opposite sex, and we pick who we want out of the ones who become attracted to us. In other words, we have the freedom to express ourselves sexually. So why is it different for women? Why can’t a woman express herself sexually, and choose who she wants among the interested, without having to worry about being raped and abused?

    It’s the same with porn. It exists. And there is likely no way we can make it go away. And we can sit there and blame porn for all of our problems. But at the end of the day, no one’s forcing you to watch porn. You CHOSE to watch it. Again, if you can’t control your urges, that’s on you.

    That’s my two cents:rolleyes:
     
  3. Arbiter007

    Arbiter007 Fapstronaut

    I think you both make a good point. But why is it both points seem to be one extreme or the other. Is there not a middle ground here of both men and women doing things that can be attractive for the opposite as well as doing things not to make other people stumble? Most women are actually attracted to a male based on how he dresses, not how little he dresses into.

    I guess there are two moral questions here. The first one is obvious, should men or women have some kind of moral code that says it is wrong to make other people stumble when you know it will make them struggle?

    @PIEDSufferer, if we took your logic further to the next step in progression, women and men could walk around fully naked if they wanted to and it is not any fault of their own if they get attacked or raped.

    The next question is probably less obvious in that should there be a standard moral code for what is wrong when controlling oneself from getting these urges? It seems to me that men actually for the most part already do some decent levels of controlling themselves, at least when stuck around women who do have some clothes on. And it is bound to happen that when you are out in public, you are going to run into someone of the opposite sex.

    Another question that probably spawns off of the second question, is it possible for males and females in general to control their fantasizing with a PMO induced culture if they were suddenly swarmed by beautiful naked people of the opposite sex (this example is mainly for heterosexual males and females)?

    Nakedness is typically something that is only revealed in the bedroom, so our brain is wired to think of sex usually if we see nakedness.

    It seems this culture wants to keep the cake and eat it too. To rewire our brains completely to accept PMO, accept public nakedness, men must force their brains to only go into procreation mode once the naked woman gives the cue (it's okay if his junk hurts [blue balls can actually be pretty painful]), and then everything is perfect in the world.
     
  4. But... but sounding redpill or bluepill or whatever else sounds cool and strokes the digital ego. Also dumping your blame onto women, onto society, onto attractive and beautiful people is kinda trendy too.
     
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  5. fredisthebes

    fredisthebes Fapstronaut

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    It's because men's 'natural sexual desires' aren't rape or sexual assault.

    Do women want to be desired? of course they do. They also want a man who can control his base instincts, who isn't going to fly off the handle like a toddler whenever he doesn't get what he wants. And she wants to be able to reject men that she doesn't want - nothing wrong with that, haven't you ever seen a woman you are not attracted to? And women tend to be choosier than men, it's just the way they are built. Nothing hypocritical about it.
     
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  6. PIEDSufferer

    PIEDSufferer Fapstronaut

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    As a biologist, I actually DO find clothing a very odd behavior that we exhibit;)
     
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  7. Why? Why do you feel you have to act macho ? Is your self esteem so low you feel you have to behave and put on an act to get someone to like you?
     
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  8. PIEDSufferer

    PIEDSufferer Fapstronaut

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    Interesting to have this part of my reply get pulled out for discussion. But ok, I’ll bite the worm here....

    Sexual selection among animals is a dynamic that includes both physical characteristics and behavioral cues. Behavioral displays in the animal world are a natural way to demonstrate physical fitness, and increase the odds of being selected as a potential mate. Passive males are simply less likely to mate. So when a man “acts macho” so to speak, all that is is a behavioral display of masculinity and fitness. Birds sing and display their feathers, elephant seals trumpet, rams knock heads, etc. I’m not one to believe that humans shouldn’t also display their physical fitness for courtship and mate selection. We are animals. There is a reason why these behaviors exist. It’s hardwired into our biology.
     
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  9. Your correct passive men are less likley to get much if any female attention. The macho i refer to is putting on a fake act to get women to notice and like you. Most of the time the macho is actully lying there ass off because if any women spends time with them for to long they will see threw there BS . When your being direct ,and bold knowing what you want, and setting boundries you dont have to ACT MACHO because all those are traits of Men not boys. Being confident in who you are and what you want is attractive to women
     
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  10. PIEDSufferer

    PIEDSufferer Fapstronaut

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    I see your point here. But in a competitive situation, males will display and attempt to measure up with each other. And there are winners and losers. So is it really lying? Or simply putting in your best effort? Either way, this is becoming a deviation from the original topic. The point I was trying to make in regards to hypersexualized women in our society..... Short answer: I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s a sexual display. And as men, we have no right to tell women to put away their sexual displays simply because we can’t control our urges.
     
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  11. Yeah, seriously.

    Personally I don't believe in anyone, male or female, giving into lust and sexual promiscuity.

    BUT... to act like men are the ones "oppressed" in this system seems pretty silly, considering for literally like hundred of years, women were not allowed to have their own sexual desires at all, and men were encouraged to be as sexual as they want. The tide is only veryyyy recently starting to shift in the opposite direction.

    Like I said, I think both are wrong, but as an outsider looking in, it just seems really laughable for a guy to complain about something that women have literally been experiencing for like... all of human time, until now. And to act like women have it so much better when they literally only JUST NOW got the social acceptance to be open about their sexual desires. And in many places they still don't even have that. So... yeah. This is very far from being something that effects men more than women. You got a couple hundred or thousand more years to catch up.
     
  12. Are we though, unless your walking around grabbing people or being abusive ,what's being discouraged , if someone isn't interested in the individual advances they have a right to be.
     
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  13. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    I agree with the OP and the OP clearly said that he believes a woman’s choice of clothing is not an excuse to cross any obvious boundaries. Saying ‘I want you to look at me, but not touch me’ is not hypocritical. Saying ‘I want you to look at me like a sexual object but not treat me like a sexual object’ is hypocritical. That’s like me wearing a blue shirt saying ‘my favorite color is blue’ and then winning a free shirt and the person handing out the shirt saying ‘here you have a blue shirt, since your favorite color is blue’ and then me replying ‘what is wrong with you, you pig. just because my shirt is saying my favorite color is blue doesn’t mean I want to have a blue shirt’.
     
  14. This statement reeks of so much judgement... o_O
     
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  15. But taking control of one's actions is so hard... What's the use of God, devil, bikini, tanktops, yoga pants etc. if one can't blame one's addictions and excesses over them!
     
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  16. Also I like how the tag of feminism and politics have been thrown in there for decorative purposes... :rolleyes::D
     
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  17. PornSux2019

    PornSux2019 Fapstronaut

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    How is objectively pointing out reality equal with being judgemental? o_O A woman exposing (half) her breasts or ass is objectively dressed immodestly. She is exposing body parts that are objectively by natural instinct turning her into a sexual object.
     
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  18. People do a lot of things for a lot of reasons. If you are going to judge it with a moral compass, then call it for what it is. Asanine-moral-judgement and not objective realism.
     
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  19. I roam around in a tank top in my town. If someone says I am exposing my well developed upper chest and gorilla back, then that's onto them. I just find it comfortable and that's the end of it. So accept your own decisions. She isn't out there looking for attention. (Maybe, just maybe she is feeling confidant and comfortable, just like I do.)

    It's easy to judge people tooting one's own horn of moral superiority. But human beings shouldn't always be viewed from that filter on one's eyes. If it bothers you, chances are you have to improve in certain areas of your own personality (mind, and soul alike).
     
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  20. FutureKing

    FutureKing Fapstronaut

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    To the OP, I believe it's the exact opposite, and you also have the genders reversed. Yes we live in a hypersexualized society, and where I live, if you are a man and don't partake in risky sexual behavior, you incur a major deficit in social value, while women are expected not to engage in sexual activity at risk of incuring a major deficit in social value, with the decrease for women disappearing more and more each year. The negative social value for men not engaging in sexual activity is so high, I would never admit to participating in NoFap in public in public. Virgin men are meet with extreme distrust unless they have a damn good reason to abstain, because of all the shit misogynist groups rolling around the internet. As for modesty, for every woman in a microskirt or showing cleavage, I see 5-10 men walking around shirtless. I work at a store, and have exclusively had men break basic posted modesty/safety rules (No shirt, no shoes, no service.)
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
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