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Wrestling with a fetish all my life

For Fapstronauts who are disciples of Christ

  1. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Lent going so far so good. It's funny how I seem to be doing things at a more leisurely pace... I'm usually keen to make sure I can get my daily TODO items out of the way so I can fit in an hour or two on the Playstation before bed, which leads me to rushing things. However without that goal in mind, I'm taking things more slowly and it's nice, and not looking at the clock so much.

    I haven't done any of the activities (drawing, studying, etc.) I wanted to do in lieu of gaming yet though, as I feel I'm still settling into a new (or rather, long-lost) routine first
     
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  2. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Another fetish dream a couple of nights ago, but not significant enough that I feel I need to go into detail here.

    Woke up with a very powerful erection today though... have felt very sensitive down there all day, as if it wants me to PMO, but my brain doesn't want to at all.

    Busy doing with DIY today. When I found some downtime, it was nice that all I felt like doing was studying the Proverbs a bit. I could have replaced gaming with watching TV or something, or the more constructive task of drawing, but actually in all honesty I wanted to sit down with the Proverbs. I think that desire to spend more time with scripture is always there, but other activities seem to distract me. It's interesting that just by giving up my game time, the desire for scripture has risen to the top of the stack!

    I do read scripture every morning, but in that case I follow a plan. When I want to spend time in The Word later in the day, it's more about exploring it freely... if that makes sense?
     
  3. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Lent still going well. I've actually been too busy for playing games anyway as I've been redecorating a big room. It's finished now; I just need to let the last bit of paint dry and then move everything back tomorrow.

    I'm not too happy that I've been too busy to pursue the other things I was setting my time on the Playstation aside for, but I have at least made a bit more time for more spiritual pursuits. Besides, this decorating really needed doing, and progress would have been a lot slower had I had more digital distractions!
     
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  4. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    I had been seeing somebody recently, again somebody I had met through online dating. Unfortunately it didn’t work out, but I won’t go into why. it was an amicable though, and as usual though for forays into dating, there has been some personal growth.

    Shame

    I ended up telling this lady all about my fetish, and she was quite understanding. It came out a lot more naturally than previous occasions I have shared about it too. It really wasn’t a big deal discussing it and we even just naturally went on to discuss different things later that day, as though we hadn’t discussed my problem at all.

    It’s great that it’s getting easier, and the amount of shame I have for this is noticably less. What shame there is isn’t so much about what I’m into any more, but only that I threw away so much of my life pursuing PMO (or rather, my fetish’s equivalent) and related activities. But I’m progressively more accepting of what I’m into* and whatever circumstances led to it in my past, not least because it’s clearer to me how accepting others are. Somehow I’ve grown up assuming the world will mock and shame me for the things that make me “weird” or “different”…. A history of bullying probably plays a part there and I need to do a lot of reflection on the fact that the world is not made up of these bullies.

    * Side note: this doesn’t mean I want to swap “normal” sex life during marriage for activities relating to this fetish, only that I’m significantly less embarassed or ashamed of what I’m attracted to than I was. If I do ever marry, I wouldn’t wish to explore my fetish with my wife early on, and even I and when I did, it would be entirely on her terms.

    Anyway, I’ve noticed that the level of acceptance from others (and now myself too) can in a way be triggering. Less shame around the fetish means less motivation to resist. I care even less about my day counter now… but this is both a good thing and a bad thing. Good because it emphasises that it’s not about numbers but the heart, but bad because it shows me that even my heart wasn’t quite as much in the right place as I thought it was. One earlier motivation for counting days without PMO was this idea that the daunting task of opening up to a potential future partner about my fetish would be easier if I could at the very least say that “I haven’t looked at fetish material, engaged in self bondage or M’d for X days”. But now that I’m learning how people are more accepting than I had given them credit for, this issue doesn’t worry me so much any more and the thought of PMO has become more appealing again.

    This is showing me just how much power shame has, because it can give us a false motivation. Because of what Christ has done for us there is nothing to be ashamed of… and so shame cannot possibly work as a motivator. Our motivation should be a desire to become more like Christ (Philippians 3:10-14), and a response to the kindness He has shown us (Romans 2:4).

    Another issue I’ve found with worrying about the day counter is the obsession over the grey areas that may or may not require a reset to 0. For example, I have found it helpful for the purposes of introspection and needs analysis to revisit cartoons from my childhood that may have influenced this fetish development and see if any forgotten memories resurface, so long as I’m fairly confident that the scenes are no longer a significant trigger. However, I was reluctant to confront them, essentially scared of them because of the fear that I might mean I’d have to reset the counter (and therefore have to explain this to the future wife!). Again, this is just a complete failure to get priorities straight and it really all comes down to the heart. Yes, I have to be very careful with such “research” and be certain I’m not using it as an excuse to relapse, but I can’t make it a numbers game either.

    Somebody said to me recently that if anything it’s really about milestones more-so than days. The fact that PMO seems so pointless and meaningless to me now, and the fact that I was able to tell a new person about my problem face-to-face without much embarrassment, are to me significantly bigger achievements than going without PMO for (almost) 500 days.

    Romance

    Something else this not-quite-relationship got me thinking about is the topic of romance. I’ve realised that although I know I can be romantic, it somehow doesn’t feel “me”; i.e. I’m not really being myself when I am. I think there is nothing inherently wrong with romance, and I would be more than happy to perform romantic gestures as a gift to my future partner, but personally I find it a distraction from getting to know a [in this case potential] partner in the ways that matter. Sure it’s fun, but I don’t feel I’m connecting in a way that helps me get to know them better. I enjoy romance, but only superficially. I’m impressed by a woman’s intellect, humour and values (not least how they value their faith!) and I feel that romance doesn’t really reveal any of these to me, with the exception of humour perhaps.

    I’m very curious to know what you all think about this - especially those of you who have been married for many years!
     
  5. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    One man's romance is another man's freedom fighter or something like that. I like making my wife's favorite gourmet meals because she enjoys them so much but I don't serve them via candlelight because that just isn't her. She loves flowers and dark chocolate but she hates jewelry and most perfumes. She much prefers watching a murder mystery to a sappy romantic movie. I like splashing out on a really nice restaurant occasionally; she would rather stay home and make our own evening.

    I agree, romance can have a feeling of contrived artificiality to it but when you truly love someone it is fun to look for ways to do things for them that make them happy. In my case, I find that the fun is in doing something for her but it will backfire if I apply a one size fits all model. Horses for courses, as they say.
     
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  6. Romance is what you make it, as CPilot has said. My wife and I enjoy brutally critiquing ads for "romantic" gifts; who exactly is the market for this treacle?!? :)

    You make another good point about the counter, @XandeXIV . I have defanged the power of mine by resetting it on the slightest violation of any of my standards. That helps me keep it real and removes any pride I might have in flashing a high number. Maybe some day I'll get rid of it from my signature altogether. It is of limited utility at this point.
     
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  7. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Thank you both. Yes, I guess romance is different for different couples. Perhaps again my mistake is that I'm trying too much to emulate what I see on TV. With my ex many years ago, I really didn't know how to "do" relationships, and I emulated a lot of what a boyfriend was supposed to be. This is often how I deal with social situations that are unfamiliar with me. It has made me wonder if there is some degree of autism in me. But on the other hand, once social situations become familiar enough, my behaviour does become more natural.

    I guess when women who I've dated in the past have spoken of romance, I've assumed they were speaking of the same fairy-tale fantasy my mind was stuck on (perhaps they were!). But now we're onto semantics. All I care about is finding somebody I can be myself around, and perform acts of love as a natural expression of my character's feelings towards hers. I don't care if "romance" is the word to describe that or not!

    Something else that sort of bothers me is the whole obsession with "Love Languages". I don't think it's wrong per se, but that expressions of love cannot be narrowed down to five different aspects of love. I tried the quiz to see which languages were mine, but it was so clear to see how each of the answers to a question were geared towards which love language that I felt it was pretty much asking me to decide which I thought mine was. Besides, I ended up scoring pretty evenly on quality time, gifts and acts of service (and somehow zero on touch!) but it just didn't seem to describe me at all. I think touch is nice, and certainly enjoy being touched affectionately! But to me it doesn't distinguish those who love me from those who don't.

    With respect to scoring evenly on QT, gifts and service, it occurred to me later that what when these things really become meaningful for me is when they are done completely out of the other person's initiative. I prefer a spontaneous "I saw this and thought of you" gift over an obligatory birthday present. I prefer to be helped because somebody can't bear to see me struggle than because I asked for help. I prefer it when somebody asks me to meet up than when I suggest it myself. So, I would say that "initiative" is my true love language, and more-so that love cannot be so easily partitioned.

    That's not to say I don't think the 5 languages are particularly unhelpful. I think they can be a useful tool for getting to know somebody... but truly understanding their needs goes a lot deeper.

    I think the issue with me is that as I progress, my standards change, and therefore so does the definition of a 'violation'. I think one reason I'm reluctant to remove the counter is that I hope that keeping it when it is so high can encourage others to see what is possible. But on the other hand, for all they know I could be making it up! And furthermore I have no hard evidence that anybody else has been helped by my numbers alone.

    Nonetheless I always congratulate people when they make progress on their counter. Perhaps it is a more useful tool earlier in the journey when initially training the body to go without PMO and to help people get to that stage where they start to question why they needed to count days in the first place, and what needs to change in their hearts to never need a counter again.
     
  8. If you're into such things, Big Joel on YT has a delightfully ruthless takedown of the Love Languages concept. My wife and I laughed loud and long while watching it.

    Love is so simple: Put the other person ahead of yourself. This can be hard, but it does not need to be complicated. Anything that is -- like "romance" (a word I am convinced has no actual definition) -- seems designed to sell greeting cards. Or books. It's marketing, nothing more, and bears almost no connection with the genuine article.
     
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  9. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    We humans work so hard to solve our problems on our own but our track record in this regard is pretty abysmal. I suppose every generation is guilty of believing they have found "the answer" which eluded mankind up until that point in time. Such incredible hubris! Today, secular people are prone to dissect their lives under the standard of modern relationships but they overlook comparing it to the ancient standard given to us long ago in 1 Corinthians ch. 13.

    "Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated,5 it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury,6it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth.7 It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.8 Love never fails." RSV-CE

    A wise man, whose marriage spanned 70 years, once said to me that marriage is not a 50:50 proposition. Marriage requires each person to give more than their fair share of effort. To me, this is romance. Kindness above and beyond the call.
     
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  10. Rebooter2022

    Rebooter2022 Fapstronaut

    Here's my take, not having read the other responses:

    1. With regards to future exploration of your fetish in marriage; if you do get married in the future, which I hope you do, I wonder if this will not end up happening at all. In my experience, many times when I have built up something boundary-pushing in my head in marriage for the bedroom in the vein of 'I would like to try that', it has turned out either that my wife has been completely uninterested in it or it has been a complete flop, and I realised actually I had indirectly smuggled a past PMO-influenced fantasy into my marriage that was completely disconnected from reality.

    To the healthy and non-PMO-desensitised and -polluted mind, 'vanilla' is absolutely mindblowing. I think there's a reason it's called 'missionary position'...not because missionaries are prudes and don't know how to enjoy themselves, but because it's all they need to enjoy themselves, and they may even be enjoying themselves more than anyone else! (For clarification: I don't think the missionary position is the only legitimate way to be physically intimiate in marriage!). You might discover in the future that letting go of your fetish completely in marriage is the last frontier for letting it go completely--it was a 'fetish' after all--because actually those fantasies have nothing at all to do with reality.

    2. Similarly, without wanting to shame, I wouldn't overestimate people's ability to be accepting of something like this too much. Telling someone you are casually dating (which, not knowing you in person, personally I would caution against anyway as I think it makes the fetish more important than it is) is very different from telling someone you are going to share your whole life with. There is no cause for shame, in Christ, and self-compassion is a far greater motivation than shame, but it was still shameful behaviour. Christ died for it.

    3. Re: romance: Remember that the word for romance comes from the word for 'story'. Being romantic is creating your own story with someone--that's my take. In the early days of my courtship with my wife I did loads of 'romantic' stuff like this: gestures, surprises, thoughtful cards, gifts, experiences, words, acts of service. I need to do it more now, now that it doesn't come naturally so much, now that I have to work at it because we have been together for years and we have kids and are exhausted all the time and she is very ill--but when I do, that makes it all the more significant because of all that context--it becomes more agapeic, and not just erotic.

    A bunch of flowers means more now because sometimes it is all I can manage to remember to scratch out some time to buy in amidst all the chaos that currently besets us. But I really need to improve in this area because I have been letting the side down lately. I thoroughly advocate for and encourage real romance.

    Also, another thing for me (more relevant to those who are actually married...) is that romance has to be undertaken without any eye on any possible future outcome of the gesture--e.g. a sexual encounter. If that emerges, great, but if it is kept in view at the outset or the gesture is performed 'for' that outcome, everything is completely undermined and it doesn't work. That is not agapeic. The most significant romantic gestures from my side in my marriage have been when I have done something very thoughtful without expecting anything in return. (By the way, on this definition the most romantic thing that has ever been done in history is when Christ died for us on the cross for us.)
     
  11. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    Well said and spot on!
     
  12. You taught me a new word. Thank you!
     
  13. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    I wouldn't say it was quite casual dating... but again maybe we're getting too much into semantics! In any case, we were considering whether or not we wanted it to become a serious relationship with a view to life together, and I wanted to be upfront about baggage I'd be bringing. In the past I had left it too late to bring up this issue. So even if it was too early, I'd rather that than too late. Besides, it's not something I'd share without also sharing how God has brought me through it. I can share in a way that glorifies Him, rather than puts any shame on myself :)

    These are some wise, powerful words (as was the whole post, for that matter), thank you :) I think though that thoughtful acts with nothing in return can apply to things I do for friends, family, etc., and the word "romance" has nothing to do with it. The other day I was carefully choosing a mother's day card, thinking very carefully about which would appear to my mum the most. In a "romantic" relationship this might be considered a romantic gesture... putting thought into what would appeal most to my partner purely because it makes her happy... but doing the same for my own mother can hardly be considered "romantic"! I'm choosing the ideal card because I love her. No more, no less.

    Yes, I often think about what the word "romantic" actually means... it's much more broad than "Disney princess love"... though I understood it to mean stories which are more idealistic than realistic. The term is often used to describe a form of fiction in which the improbability or cliche of certain events can be disregarded in favour of fantastic escapism. These stories usually involve the male hero winning over the beautiful girl, hence why the interpretation of the term "romance" has shifted to it's more common form.

    I've often thought about how this latter, broader form of romance plays into my damsel in distress fantasies, actually. But that's another post... I think I've been over-analysing my fetish lately and want to back down a bit. I will come back to it at some point though.
     
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  14. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Relapsed this morning.

    The trigger was a couple of days ago... a soap opera scene on TV that I caught in the background while visiting parents, and I was able to ignore at the time. However somehow I was obsessing over it and wanting to know more context (or so I told myself). For some reason this morning when I woke up I decided to Google it, and of course there was a screenshot. It was foolish of me. I didn't MO to the image there and then, and all things considered it wasn't that big a deal. However I got caught into the trap of "well I've come this far, might as well go further" and then MO'd. I can't put this down to lack of self-control due to being half awake. I knew what I was doing.

    There have been "aftershocks" throughout the day since including some hunting and seeking, but it was very half-hearted. As I did it I could tell I didn't really want to do it but was compelled by habit. I knew that what I was looking at was no longer attractive to me, but somehow my brain couldn't accept that and needed "fuel". I still believe that my heart is rejecting the images I look at, but my flesh, having had a taste this morning can't accept no further MO.

    I think the point I made a few days ago about my motivations and priorities being in the wrong place contributed. I'm less ashamed of my sin, but that's also made me more careless. The counter has become an idol again, so it's time to do away with it. I may bring it back briefly to build momentum if there are repeated incidents, but longer-term it's clearly causing me more harm than good.

    There's more to unpack as there's various aspects to the scene a few days ago that I hadn't braced myself for, but now is not the time. I need to think more about why I slipped up though.
     
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  15. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    I believe there are a rare few who can be truly cured of the addiction to lust but they are minuscule in number compared to the rest of us. The majority of us, must accept that we will never be able to trust ourselves, while on this earth, and thus we cannot willingly expose ourselves to temptation and expect no reaction.

    The reasons for our triggers are sad things in our past. We can analyze the reasons and perhaps gain some insight but IMO that will not provide a cure for what ails us. The only safe course of action is to strictly avoiding the temptations that are within our choosing while asking God to fight those temptations that we did not seek but came to our eyes anyway.
     
  16. Keep moving forward, @XandeXIV . As long as we have breath, we have hope. There will never be anything helpful or good for us in lust or our attempts to sate it.
     
  17. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Thank you both

    Reflecting further, I don’t think this unexpected scene was the only contributing factor, as I will elaborate. I think it was a “perfect storm” scenario… multiple triggers or enablers happening to align in just the right way, and one I hadn’t prepared for. This will always be a risk, as we simply cannot prepare for everything and our lives are entirely in God’s hands.

    1. Last week I was also nervous about an appointment my parents were to attend on the day I relapsed and at which I was unable to join them. This had me on edge the whole week. In the end it went fine. In retrospect though, it would have benefited me to tell other people this was worrying me. I told nobody, mainly due to laziness.

    2. When I saw the scene in question on Wednesday, I woke up the next day feeling more tempted than usual for the streak I was in. I fought it off, but it did occur to me that if I were allowing myself to play games at the moment, I would have distracted myself by doing so. A more productive hobby (such as drawing) required motivation, which can trigger stress and in turn make me more vulnerable.

    3. There’s also the fact that I told nobody about any of the above more generally until it was too late. At the very least It wouldn’t have hurt to mention here in my journal. Journaling was helping me before, but clearly I have become complacent in my streak, feeling “I can just report it later”.

    I still have more to say on what the trigger revealed to me, and my reflections on gaming and other hobbies during lent. To be continued!
     
  18. Rebooter2022

    Rebooter2022 Fapstronaut

    Sorry to hear about the relapse. God forgives those who sincerely repent. Get back on that horse.

    I can't remember if you have any real life APs? Seemed like it woulda helped? At least someone to call / text when trigerred?

    PM me if you are interested in setting up this last option seeing as we are both in the UK.
     
  19. CPilot

    CPilot Fapstronaut

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    Several dark periods in my life began with a mortal sin and a subsequent rationalization that since I had committed it, things couldn't get any worse by committing it again. In time, every instance I fell became a binge of sins for weeks and sometimes months, perhaps due to this insidious rationalization, one straight from the devil.

    I am praying, with fervor, that this does not happen to you. A fall is a sad thing but it is far sadder to let it become the opening of chasm between us and God. You fell, please now take inspiration from Christ's falls along the Via Dolarosa. Get up again, keep going towards salvation.

    You have been a help and inspiration to many here. Stay the course. I am praying for you.
     
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  20. XandeXIV

    XandeXIV Fapstronaut

    Thank you all, really so much!

    Yesterday I was spiraling badly, but today has been mostly okay. More on that later.

    Thank you. I don't have offline APs, no. There are plenty of people who I would talk to about my parents' situation, so I really should have opened up about that one at the very least. But in terms of PMO recovery, NoFap is all I have. Not just the journal though, there are PM conversations that help! But again, there I was still completely silent on any of these issues.

    So this post knocked some sense into me last night, thank you so much! Yesterday it really did look like I was slipping back into this excuse. I kept googling things, ended up drawing some fantasies (now shredded), PMO'd once. I couldn't shake the feeling I had to satisfy my curiosity while my relapse gave me an "excuse". Your first paragraph served as a warning, your last sentence as an encouragement. Knowing that my own journey encourages others on the one hand, and considering that dark spiral back into binging on the other hand didn't sit well with me at all. All glory goes to God for any way I encourage others. But if I then go the opposite way then I desecrate the work God has been doing in me and the name of God Himself. Realising this served as a wake-up call, and today has been significantly cleaner.

    As is often said though, each day is its own battle. A better day today doesn't mean tomorrow will be easy. @Rebooter2022, your "one day at a time" thread has really been on my mind a lot these past few days, so I must thank you for this also. I'm planning to use this more, or at least the parts that resonate with me more strongly.
     

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