P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Just wrote a post about why I'm going to go through with it--but I decided against it. I'm just going to keep moving forward as is.

 

Just on this one point, be careful with supplementing methylfolate.

Serum folate testing only detects recent exposure to folate, so if you ate a bag of spinach or some liver the day before the test your levels would have been high or normal. Your test result doesn't mean you have a folate deficiency. If your doctor is concerned about folate deficiency he would do a FIGLU test and look for signs of anemia. These are the systemic indicators. In the absence of anemia, the most important functional indicator that you need supplemental folate is the presence of high homocysteine levels. Without anemia, high FIGLU, or high homocysteine then you don't actually need supplemental folate. Unlike most other B vitamins, the liver stores about 4-6 months worth of folate.

Whatever you do, don't take more than 400mcg/day of the 5-mthf unless medically necessary. For some people even that is too much. Supraphysiologic (megadose) doses of folate can cause extreme unprovoked anxiety in some people, even those without preexisting anxiety symptoms. It can build up and accumulate over days and weeks so watch out for that too. The web is full of stories of people who have been hurt by quacks who latch on to the MTHFR hype and advocate mega-dosing methylfolate because of a gene polymorphism that some people have (which might not even me harmful). Most of the web literature on MTHFR is created by people who profit from selling 5-mthf or by presenting themselves as experts. You can keep taking 5-mtfr if it isn't effecting you but don't be afraid to do elimination tests to see if it is exacerbating acute anxiety symptoms. It's one of the few nutrients that can directly deteriorate mood and you don't need that during withdrawal!

Before I knew about PAWS, MTHFR was one of my major rabbit holes. I even did the genetic testing and found out that I have both major polymorphisms. Even still, folates only make me feel worse. Natural folate found in food isn't pre-methylated so taking it that way isn't necessarily a better option, no matter what the web says.

On the brain scan thing, I've had MRI and CT done. It's pretty common for people with PAWS to report that they had that done and it always comes back normal.

 

Holy crap, is it me or was it like just yesterday this thread was at 80 pages?

 

Do you guys think its normal not to get any "good days" or windows while in paws? I had windows my first 3 months long time ago but now i have been on many hard mode streaks with no binges in between and i must be like 2 years into the journey and still i feel like i did the first day PAWS hit me. Anhedonia, severe social anxiety and low self esteem, depression, general anxiety, very low testosterone. I just feel hopeless honestly.

 

Cheers for the advice

No more than 400mcg/day! I've been taking 5000mcg/day for the past 3 days ahah! I really thought low folate could have been a solution to my PAWS recovery. I've had the fortune of having this test done multiple times over my 2year deterioration and it correlated well: at the start when I had mild symptoms it was 14ug/L, then down to 5ug/L when my symptoms got severe and now at 2.8ug/L when the symptoms have become unbearable. I don't think for one second that the folate deficiency is causing my anguish but it might explain why it's so severe/long.

Should I request a FIGLU, homocysteine and anemia tests from my doctor to make sure that I don't have a problem regarding folate levels?

My anxiety is at a point where it can't get any worse so I figure there's no harm in trying to bring my levels back up. Would you recommend folic acid (my doc prescribed me 5mg/day for 3 months) over 5-mthf or should I just have a much smaller dose of 5-mthf?

Whilst on this topic, can anyone recommend other potential tests which should be done please. I've only just gained access to my medical records and have noticed that although I requested it I didn't get a testosterone test, is this one worth doing?

 

I wouldn't say I've had any good days, just periods of 3-4 days where the symptoms aren't so intense for a bit. Been 2 weeks since my last one though.

 

I am new here. I know you probably already wrote it but there are a lot of posts and i dont have much time. So i want to know for how long are you people abstaining and what were you bigest strike. I feel like most of you write 2 years strike but with a ton of relapses and binging

 

No depression now... taking one tablet daily since 6 days..

 

will taking meds as short as 10 days also bad??? I am taking for 10 days and within 6 days i feel no depression .. Are takimg only for 10 days also bad??

 

If you had anemia your doctor would already know it because it's obvious in your routine labs. To be clear, if you and your doc are having a hard time getting your folate levels up with supplements then don't listen to me at all. My comments are only to make you aware of possible side effects from megadose methylfolate, not to diagnose you. I can't tell if you're saying that your folate levels are dropping despite taking high dose supplements, that would be unusual. You would definitely need a doctor for that.

If there is a connection between folate levels and your mental health it would most likely be related to high homocysteine (HCY) levels because it's toxic to your brain and heart. The rate-limiting step in HCY degradation is folate-dependent. Some people do genetically maintain high HCY without folate supplementation and it's becoming a known risk factor for lots of health problems, especially heart disease. Since you already have a congenital condition (t1 diabetes) it might not be crazy to look into it. So, my only advise would be to ask your doctor to monitor homocysteine and folate together, with and without supplements, to see if you really need more folate than your diet provides. If so, it would probably mean lifelong folate supplementation. Unlike PAWS, your doctor will take high homocysteine levels seriously if you have them, although he may question why a 20 yr old is asking to have HCY checked If he does just tell him you read that it might be connected to your low folate levels. If you have high HCY levels you should get the genetic testing to confirm that the cause is genetic.

Just remember that if you have any issues with folate metabolism that it's unrelated to your PAWS symptoms. Fix your folate levels for sure but don't think that it's the cause of your problems. If you convince yourself of that then you can convince yourself to relapse also.

 

I don't think it matters because serum folate tests measure 5-methylfolate in the blood. I can confirm 100% that 5-mthf supplements raise my serum folate levels into the stratosphere.

 

Go back a few pages to my first posts, read all of it, it's long winded, but to make it short, yes, even taking any of them once is bad, I remember my first day on Prozac it put me in this fuzzy feel good high, I never took MDMA but if I were to describe it as a comparison it was like that but less strong, after a few days though I felt more DPDR and generally not right at all. You shouldn't take anything my friend, it is all a lie, you will feel good now but eventually it will hit you be it in withdrawal or not.

 

Ok .. i am stopping it now... Will it still cause withdrawl??

 

There's a possibility... If you want, you could taper down, that might help, what kind of dosage are you on?

Normally with all of them, when you stop them abruptly it can cause withdrawal, tapers are
the slow gradual decrease in intake of the substance until a certain point where it is stopped completely, the blood levels of the drug are slowly filtered out which may give the brain more time to get used to functioning without it, rather than giving it a shock.

When I quit both Prozac and Risperidone I done it at the same time if I remember, and immediately fell into a deep depression, it felt deep, like a hole appeared in my chest, it wasn't a natural feeling that could come normally but a purely artificial chemical one, then the akathisia came...

if you want to talk to your doctor/psych about it they may help with tapering, especially if the pill is solid in nature, there are special clips that are used to break them to certain sizes and ratios.

 

From my personal experience and reading countless recovery stories I would say this is how it is for many people. They feel good or have some good days earlier in the reboot, but then only have bad days for months until they suddenly start feeling a lot better This is the exact same for me and i have passed 2 years now with zero relapses to porn. Only O from sex and a couple MO only sensation.

 

Read this story for some motivation (Areborn27)
https://forum.nofap.com/index.php?threads/paws-sexual-exhaustion-1-5-years.175077/#post-1499104

I have been through basically all of the stuff you wrote about. What we often see is that the worst PAWS appear after relapses and binges. This is how it was for me. My forst reboot (1,5 years) My main symptom was only very low libido and a little depression. Now after a long time and currently on a 2+ year streak I have most of the horrible flatline symptoms. Absolutely horrible.

My advice to you my friend is to stay away from all artificial stimuli and orgasms. Hardmode, ideally until you feel a lot better. I dont think orgasms from sex are the same as with porn, but when we are in paws any stimuli can make us feel like shit, so it is hard to tell the difference between bad or good.

Dont waste your life half assing this mate, do it properly so you can love your life in 1-3 years Porn and masturbation will never make this better no matter what your brain tells you.

 

If someone had severe kindling, would it persist even while having sex after recovery? I noticed I my symptoms increased by M only. I'm afraid the brain deals with sex in a similar manner! This is a life sentence.

 

I m on Clonazepam (0.5mg)+ Escitalopram Oxalate (5mg).. Taken only for 6 days.... So should i taper for next 3-4 Days.. and stop then??

 

If you want to quit your meds after 6 days that's OK, it's your choice, but get instructions from your doctor about how to stop. Seeking dosage instructions from an internet message board is just not smart on any level. PurpleVibes is well intended but he's not accountable to you. He can't help you if you freak out. Call your doctor tomorrow. Those are startup doses and they aren't going to harm you while you wait to see him.

 

Thank you for sharing this link! I relate to most of what was mentioned. Hopefully, it will take less than a year to recover for these symptoms.