It Depends On How Long

I know exactly what you explicitly stated. I made an attempt to ellaborate on that and explore that point further. If you’re not up for debate or discussion then that’s fine.

 

I enjoy debating, and I agree with many of your points, but I don't know what else there is to discuss regarding the definition of a 'full recovery,' since it varies from addict to addict. Do you agree that other factors have a hand as well?

 

What varies? The only thing that really varies is the specifics of their addiction and their recovery process. The end result is the same as far as I see it. Either they have overcome their addiction or they haven’t. And yes, there are many factors to consider in regards to the length of time it takes to reboot. As I said, it was a general rule of thumb. A general rule of thumb is not meant to take into account the numerous variables that may make an individual case differ from the others.

 

That's problem, it doesn't take into account the varying factors for each individual. That's why I try and avoid these estimations, but I understand the point you're trying to make.

May I just ask to ask how you know this rule of thumb? What site have you gotten it from?

 

That’s fine. You don’t have to accept anything if you don’t want to. But again, I see nothing wrong with it if it helps people cope with the process. Frankly I’ve seen it floating around for quite a while; I think I came across it initially about a year ago and since then I’ve seen it popping up many places including in YouTube videos pertaining to the subject as well as forum posts. But I have to admit that the theory does hold up to many users’ experiences that I’ve read. Certainly not all, or even most, will fall into that category, but it doesn’t seem to be completely far off in many cases.

 

I'm all for it if it helps people cope, I was just wondering where you got this estimate. So you can't remember the site? Just some YouTube videos, and anecdotal evidence? That's alright, and it definitely doesn't discount for its accuracy, but I wish I could see the site and its sources for this estimate.

One important aspect of recovery that many people fail to grasp is that it's not just numbers. Someone who's on a 5 day streak may be farther along in recovery than someone with a 50 day streak. Just some food for thought.

 

Unfortunately I can’t pinpoint an exact website because I’ve seen it from numerous sources, but there’s no real “scientific” evidence to back it up. Truthfully though I’m not one for seeking out this kind of evidence in regards to PMO addiction anyway, as so little overall study has actually been conducted and many of the things we as addicts know to be true are still obscure from the medical industry. I absolutely agree about your statement that it’s not about the numbers. Again this sort of points back to my initial statement that someone who has been PMOing for 15 years is not going to be as far along on day 90 as someone who has PMO’d for under 5 years...

 

I feel like Moonshot is right. There are so many variables which could intervene here: time spent on that addiction, other addictions which meddle with the dopaminergic receptors, if they have had real partners, if they have been working out or have been playing sports, mental activities and the list could go on... Until we have more studies on how different activities impact the receptors, the sensitivity of these receptors or other mechanisms involving this problem... we only have "dry" theories regarding the duration of the healing process.

 

You forgot to factor in the intensity on how much one does PMO. For example, I would PM0 3-5 times a day,every day, for about 2-3 years until I recently got ahold of it. It is true that addictions are hard to quit and years of doing the habit can be so hard to break that it seems impossible. I''m not sure if you are aware of something called P.A.W.S. (Post Accute Withdrawl Syndrome) but in short it means the brain should take around 2 years minimum to rebalance all the flucuations of chemicals induced by PMO. P.A.W.S. is not "bro science" but actual science, look it up. Dedication is all that recovery acquires.

 

Also another thing that nofap does not seem to help me with is how to "restructure" porn induced thought patterns. That is why I enrolled into CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) classes. I believe for severe addicts, as myself, sticking to remaining sober is not enough. If you do not restructure those "porn induced" thoughts, like in my case (and maybe many), is objectifying women then a relapse can happen "some day" along the future. Sure excersing, meditation, doing some new hobbies can help "ignore" those thoughts but it will probably not solve the issue in the long run.

 

Apparently you have not seen that many hardcore PMO addicts then. I have, and many of them are still experiencing withdrawal symptoms after a year and a half on hard mode. I highly suggest you research PAWS and the effects it can cause.

 

As a lifetime addict of PMO from my teen years (I'm now almost the big 50) - the formula for the 'estimated recovery time' that has been suggested in this thread is rather challenging for me to comprehend! However, as a fairly recent acolyte of NoFap, I have encountered a level of support from the brothers here that enabled me to reach a PB of no PMO that I had lost hope in ever achieving. While the path to total abstinence still seems largely unobtainable to me, my streak of almost a full month made me realise that I had managed to loosen the noose that my P mind had on me and it lit a fire of defiance in my belly. I am now better equipped to recognise my triggers and subsequent temptations. I now realise how I failed to maintain my streak in a more analytical way and I am now more motivated to get back on the case than ever before. I could not have done so without the help of our band of brothers on this site and their excellent support and guidance. While the formula may suggest that I will probably be dead before I am cured - I don't care. I think the formula does not take into consideration the therapeutic power of the brothers here present. Surely our NoFap community should be factored in as it contributes such a powerful mitigating factor in the war against this addiction. I'm also thinking that it's not the destination that matters, what is more important is the journey to get there, and that you can't be a warrior unless there is a war to be fought. So I will fight on. PMO addition is the war, I am the warrior, every day presents a battle to be won and life is a struggle. The difference for me now is that it is no longer a solo mission.

 

You are perhaps an exception to the norm. And also, not every single hardcore addict is going to have the same experience. You are simply wrong if you claim though that all hardcore PMO users are going to recover within 180 days or less, because this simply isn’t the case. I myself was a hardcore addict and on my last long streak of nearly 50 days I experienced punishing withdrawal symptoms and zero benefits whatsoever. There is another NoFap user named “saneagain” that has been on NoFap for nearly two years and is still experiencing PAWS symptoms. Your personal experience does not reflect everyone else’s.

 

Yes, these things certainly can help. But it is not a guarantee that this will speed up recovery for everyone. I have encountered individuals that are actively exercising, eating healthy and promoting their mental and physical recovery with good lifestyle choices and yet are still experiencing the effects of withdrawal…some for well over nine months to a year or more.

 

Yeah. And as you can see from my initial comment, so am I. 90% of even hardcore addicts seem to recover in 2 years or under (maybe slightly longer for really hard cases). But I’ve rarely seen anyone that was heavily using porn and masturbating for well over a decade that is completely recovered in the stereotypical “90 days”...