P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Unfortunately I don't have all the answers. And different people have different kinds of experience.

My experience says there are more flatlines that come back periodically and I've heard the same thing from other adventurers with streaks +500. To make things even more complicated different people use the same terminology for different things.

I see PAWS as a longterm misery but quite managable, whereas flatline in the meaning of acute withdrawal I see as severe and obvious decline in wellbeing. You feel like you are under attack.

In my flatlines I see decrease in libido, heavy brainfog, increased anxiety, self-confidence gone, very difficult to focus on anything, terrible memory, afternoon fatigue and scary depression.

The same as you I'm only another person trying to grab my head around it.

My last flatline finished only 11 days ago and since then I've had one of the best and most stable periods of my nofap journey. I believe you will come out of this better than how you were before the flatline.

It might be also good idea to track it - how long your flatline is and the frequency of it coming back at us. Could be one of the ways how to measure progress.

 

don't you guys think this addiction is the toughest of all other addiction? in case of other addiction people have their spouse to help them in their difficult times. But we can't have spouse. We don't need anything from outside. We can get our "dopamine" whenever and whereever we want. Staying away from something which everyone is doing(having family) adds to the pain. But still we have to get going.

 

theres not really a set period of time where a flatline may or may not occur. Some people dont get them at all. Some people get them on and off throughout recovery or even just remain in one long flatline the whole time.

for me there is a distinct difference between paws and a flatline. The flatline is generally worse, you sleep for long periods of time and still remain exhausted. It generally comes with lower mood, lower motivation, lower libido etc when compared to normal paws.

I like to think of the flatline as a different brain state. Its a lot more slower and calmer whereas paws is more chaotic and stressful. Of course its different for everyone.

 

Question: Did your symptoms originate from withdrawal or from PMO?

I am asking because I had 95% of my symptoms already before starting NoFap. It’s only now that I get some additional symptoms like libido probs and bouts of extra fatigue that don’t bother me that much compared to the other 95%. Overall I don’t feel worse than I did during PMOing because sometimes I see some glimpses of small improvements in my overall wellbeing.

The dysregulation of my nervoussystem (IBS, chronic infection, cold/warm regulation, stress, anxiety, restlessness, insomnia, brain fog, forgetfulness, exhaustion etc.) has begun a long long time ago.

Though some posts read like these paws symptoms only started when they stopped with PMO.

 

Yeah, but you've got to account for relapses, and the fact that some people seem to to be very vague in their terminology - they don't make it clear if they have looked at P / P subs / had sex / MO'd with or without fantasy etc etc since they "started Nofap", OR, if they have been hardmode the whole time. I'm pretty sure that those that haven't healed have relapsed in some way, and just aren't being clear about it.

I have been on this thread since the start. I've had several streaks that have been in the 3-9 month range and seen improvements each time towards the end, but I have had relapses - including about 12 last year, and one this year. All I can say is that if you're ill enough to have found this thread in the first place then you are more or less in the same boat as me, and that means that hardmode really is the only option if you want to get well. I think that people on this thread and Nofap in general need to be clear about what they mean when they talk about "streaks".

I do wonder about some of the other people who seem to have got well and then disappeared. Some people on this thread are assuming that they've just got well and f*cked off to live happily ever after, but that may not be the case.

 

Same here - I was feeling pretty much what I'm feeling now back in the day when I was PMO'ing all the time.

 

When I started with nofap, I was feeling definitely worse than in my old PMO lifestyle. It was like that for last three and half years. I was doing my best to abstain and the only reward I was getting was actually feeling worse, much worse.

Only now for the first time I think I might actually be doing slightly better than when I was PMOing in the old days.

 

Today marks 49 months since I started my reboot and I thought it might be good to provide an update.

The good news is that while things have been slow, I am definitely healing and seeing improvements. It is just extremely gradual and taking longer than expected. All in all I feel as though I am 70% healed in total and still have some way to go.

The things that stand out the most at this point of recovery is; brainfog is easing up slightly. I can think a bit more clearly but brainfog is still there. I can finally get 7 hours sleep without waking up early and struggling to get back to sleep. My energy has increased but is by no means perfect. Morning wood has started to show up again after being gone for months, however it is not as strong as it used to be just yet. I have also noticed that I am bit more flaccid these days. But as I said there is still more work to do.

There has been a lot of talk on the topic of depression recently, what I recently realised is that the further I go into my reboot, the more depression, numbness, emptiness that seems to come up. This is the point where I seem to struggle the most. This is when I will reach for the internet, social media, junk food etc more frequently. When I will stop going to bed early and find my self awake at 2am wasting time online. The depression comes up and my reaction is to "hide" through stimulation. My advice is to embrace the depression and stay away from all the negative stimulation (junk food, gaming, social media etc.) As soon as I started just sitting in the depression and accepting it (as horrible as it was) I noticed that gradually the depression started to get easier. This is where the jump in recovery happened for me.

If I avoid and try to ignore the depression and numbness by eating junk food, or going on social media, or gaming, what tends to happen is the depression and numbness either a) intensifies or b) drags out even longer. What is working for me is just going through the depression head on so that it can do what it needs to do and I can heal. Then ill notice a gradual improvement. This is just my perspective.

Something that has been helping with recovery is the vitamin Maca Root. It helps relax the nervous system and reduce stress. It also gives natural energy without caffeine. It basically helps with feeling normal on the really tough days, and also helps speed up recovery. However I would say if you have not conquered your habit of PMO, it may be best to stay clear for the time being.

Finally, the NoFap magnetism that is often talked about seems to show up every now and again for me. While sex/dating is no longer my main focus, it is worth mentioning that I have started to attract a lot of opportunities to interact with the opposite sex. At my work, in my apartment complex, at my local gym - suddenly I am being approached by women who are intent on getting to know me. This is not to say that this should be the sole purpose of NoFap, it is simply strange to go from no attention, to the complete opposite over time. Something work noting.

All in all, recovery is gradually getting there, and while I can't quite see the light at the end of the tunnel, I now know its there. My most important point for anyone who is struggling is to keep going, things get better and it is definitely worth it. Its been over 4 years now and I can finally say with confidence that I am making progress and healing, and that PAWS is not forever. Do not get me wrong the process is gradual, but as long as you keep yourself fairly healthy, and follow the signs it cannot last forever.

 

I am happy to hear man. Unfortunately we are all different and our recoveries as well. That’s why I mentioned to some to keep an eye on each symptom because as time goes each one will get better. So many people are focused on how shitty they feel and forget that about the healing which I completely understand. The times I had bad days I kept reminding myself of my progress. I even remember when I posted my negative posts and you responded showing support almost a year ago. I’m positive you’re gonna recover to 100 in a matter of time. I am an example and so are you that we can heal from this addiction. Keep going man, you’re doing great.

 

I'm having so many wet dreams currently, I've had four already this week ..!

Hopefully they'll settle down again soon but it's a little concerning that I ejaculate the literal second that I see anything arousing, it's like extreme PE but in my sleep. Thankfully they don't seem to have affected me much from what I can tell, I still feel the same.

 

Fascinating. What about morning wood? Do you have any? And chaser after wet dreams?

 

Is there a particular brand you would recommend? The world of supplements is a bit of a wild-west in terms of quality.

 

Morning wood is still quite rare but have seen a slight increase this past month. I didn't have any for months but now it's maybe once every 7-10 days, something I notice though is that whilst the shaft is hard, the glans are relatively soft. I don't feel much of a chaser, if at all.

Also after one of those wet dreams my brain felt crystal clear for a few minutes, it was like all the heaviness and clutter momentarily evaporated. It makes me wonder whether that's how normal people feel all the time. I remember the entire dream I had this morning, there was absolutely nothing sexual about it - I was walking home after playing football and then I saw a particular body part of a woman and I immediately ejaculated lol.

By the way, I saw one of your posts on lucid dreaming and I've had two in the past couple of weeks, up until that point I'd never had one before in my life. They are a crazy experience but I can see them becoming dangerous for me if I use them as a substitute for you know what ...

 

Much appreciated @Scorpio1990 honestly. I remember those posts, it was a dark time.

If somebody told me I would still be here after 4 years when I first started recovery I would have called them a liar and considered throwing up my middle finger. I just could not comprehend a 4+ year journey - it really has been a tough journey. But I think I realised that despite there not being many PAWS stories this thing can be beaten with perseverance. It’s the realisation that PAWS really isn’t the be all and end all, it’s just a bit of a slog. I appreciate the kind words, hope you’re doing ok too.