P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

Why do you believe in this ? Relapse and binging are two different things...

 

Just an update. I've gotten used to most of the paws symptoms. I've tried my best to stay healthy and live the best possible life in paws. I've beaten the anhedonia by eliminating super stimulus and doing healthy yet fun activities. I've beat the memory problems by writing things down. I've beat the brain fog by staying away from stimulants like coffee. Just one thing that I can't bear is the tiredness/weakness. How is it for you all? What's your most problematic symptom. I just want to be reassured that this persistent and progressive tiredness isn't the cause of something else (like an ongoing disease).

Thanks in advance. Some tips I'd like to share is sometimes we can be too harsh on ourselves we shouldn't be too strict as it may lead to you feeling depressed. Try to distract yourself with good hobbies. Some good ones in paws is religiousness, light exercise, and gaming (be careful with this one). Paws is going to be a long journey so you don't want to be living sedentary, you should continue working on you and your future. Although I'd advise against getting a job or studying, if you must then pick something that is doable. There are people in paws who've managed to do this and I'm so inspired by them.

Dealing with suicidal thoughts/negative thoughts about paws can be dealt with by ignoring them. Journaling helps with these too although it may not seem like it. I do recommend journaling.

Good luck all. Paws will be left behind and we will emerge victorious!

 

I don’t mean to butt in but I don’t believe in studies and all that unfortunately when it comes to withdrawal there is so much to it. The whole dopamine concept is confusing because there is more to it. When I went into caffeine withdrawal it all began with a crazy panic attack at work and the next two days I stopped caffeine completely. I went through many symptoms yet I still had libido and emotions. I was having sex and never did a dopamine fast. I just let time heal me. The only thing I did stop was caffeine and that’s it. I did relapse a few times but still kept making progress. Everyone is different and we heal differently. No one knows much about this unless they experience it. All I can say is waiting it out has been promising to me. If you noticed changes of improvement then you are healing. The way I know I been in paws this past year is because my brain was functioning normal before and now I am pretty much 90%. You guys got this focus on your healing and let time do its thing.

 

I don't understand @mentorr 's position, or agenda

I lived an incredibly hedonistic life. And PMO is the only addiction which is hard to shake. Alcohol, ketamine, cocaine are all infinitely easier. Within 1 month you feel better, within 3 your mostly healed and back to normal, within 6 for sure, and its progressively healing and recovering month by month. Ive relapses to alcohol several times, and its still easy to give it up

Sexuality, as it pertains to PMO, and then the subsequent PAWS is just non comparable. In the past 5 years, I've split test this in every possible permutation. And nothing has changed since the beginning for me. Engage in PMO whether thats sex, masturbation, porn, orgasm in any permutation == feel like shit. Dont do PMO == slowly get better whilst dealing with all PAWS symptoms and flatline symptoms.

In the past 4.5 years I have had periods where I felt like I was almost recovering, that was in the beginning 2 years when I had almost 15-16months of no PMO with only 1 relapse to sex. For the past 2 years the relapsing has been so frequent it's hard to remember the intial recovery stages. But there are no magic tricks. I tried everything from psychedelics, to silent meditation retreats.

The only thing that works is the hardest thing to do: let go of all sexuality fully until the body-mind heals, while simultaneously building a helath lifestyle.

 

Yeah, the longer and worse my symptoms go on, I think of it as brain damage. I'm in such bad physical and mental shape right now, I didn't think this was possible. There is so much on this discussion I want to say, but I'm too debilitated to make sense. I'm just trying to come to terms with the real possibility that I've done permanent, life-changing damage to my brain, and that this is having serious effects on every system in my body (down stream).

 

If for the past 2 years your relapsing has been frequent, my suggestion would be to focus on that.

My position or agenda is not important.

 

Forget about super powers, they are a fantasy found in comic books and movies meant for boys and young men.
Energy, mentally stronger, sharper, sure those things can happen. Porn causes brain fog for certain. Once that goes away the mentally stronger and sharper part comes back. Energy is something you create. You lose energy when all one does is watch porn on a digital device, you gain energy by getting more sleep, going to the gym, and having a normal sex life.
That's the beauty of kicking any addiction.

 

Which part are you refuting? That hard drugs cause brain damage?

I'm sure you can find articles with a simple Google search.

There are people who are far from relapse and still haven't recovered, so what chance do you think someone who has been relapsing has?

Have you ever seen anyone say they beat PAWS after two years but with a few relapses in that time? There are guys on here who have been at this for 6, 7, 8 years now with long streaks and very few relapses. How many have healed? Zero by my count ..

My own experience and observing that of others.

Relapses come with a compounding effect, that's just my opinion. I see this as like someone who has a history of concussions, every subsequent trauma to the head will add even more damage to an already compromised and weakened state.

Yeah but that's caffeine.

Do those quitting caffeine typically go into withdrawal and feel dead for years? I don't know but I'm guessing not.

Sorry but none of this applies to PAWS. This is a completely different ball game to your typical porn user.

 

A lot of those who have recovered and documented their progress have said they completely changed. They say things like it's a new beginning, and that their purity is back. With this tough recovery I'm sure the reward will be only so life changing. I believe that recovery will really change us, it's just I have a feeling that this will happen!
Also if you think pmo is like a hard drug, the recovery will be that of a hard drug; it will be a complete change and a new beginning.

 

Hard drugs causing brain damage is something I agree with. I do not agree that PMO recovery or PAWS is linked to brain damage in any shape or form.

• @Ammar2 explained yesterday that the brain is adaptable and that receptors in the brain can be recovered despite relapse.
• You mentioned that neuroplasticity relates more to learned behaviour and addiction, and that PMO is not an addiction but brain damage.
• You went on to say there is an increasing amount of evidence that suggests that what @Ammar2 said about neuroplasticity is not true (that the brain can recover due to neuroplasticity).
• I asked you for evidence or a medical paper that could confirm that PMO causes brain damage.
• You said that I can find an article with a simple Google search (which I cannot) which is why I asked you.

Brain damage usually involves some for of physical trauma, and if it doesn't you would be looking at some form of infection, autoimmune disorder or even genetic.

If a theory exists I am open to reading it so I understand, but I personally have never heard of such a theory and think that saying that our brain is essentially damaged is the wrong rhetoric. But the key point to raise is that PMO is not in the same pond as hard drugs. It is a behavioural addiction. Linking porn in with hard drugs because of the symptoms is moving into merky waters.

 

You can actually get brain damage/issues without physical damage. People with schizophrenia can hurt their brains quite a bit if they get psychosis. Also there are known cases of people who became insane from some trauma or experience they had. Just because there is little science on it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist. After all the science for paws isn't that affirming (it's not recognized by the DSM - Psychiatric Manual).

 

There is a distinct difference between brain damage and a brain issue.

A person with schizophrenia does not "hurt" their brain. Schizophrenia is caused by changes in the chemistry of the brain. It would be closer to a brain issue than brain damage.

Can a person experience brain damage without physical damage? Yes. But it would usually relate to an autoimmune disease of some sort, or a brain tumour for example, or as OhWhen mentioned hard drugs. I highly doubt that anybody here has brain damage from PAWS. That would be a whole different ball game.

 

People actually do and I was getting my info from them for support at the time. Some actually loose libido and get similar symptoms. When I read comments of people loosing libido from Caffeine I was thinking they had other issues but found out it was part of withdrawal from this experience. I remember reading up on all this in the beginning and I was freaking out because I was seeing people from years ago still on here thinking my symptoms weren’t going to get better. Luckily with time and patience they have. Now I’m doing things that I physically and mentally couldn’t do a year ago. I guess everyone heals differently.

 

Guys anybody tried therapists to help with the addiction as a whole? Did it help?

 

Yep.

I have seen a therapist in the past specifically about my P problems. It was incredibly frustrating, because he just didn't get it. I spent a lot of time and money, and was very patient, but felt like I got nowhere. The only decent thing that came from that was that I eventually found Sex Addicts Anonymous at his suggestion.

Next week I am going to see a new therapist, who actually specializes in sexual addictions. So I'll let you know how this goes.

What I would say, is don't even consider using a therapist unless they have experience in either sexual issues or addiction - preferably both. A lot of therapists think they can turn their hand to anything; my former therapist listed addiction as an issue that he dealt with, but in reality he was a generalist who was completely out of his depth. Another thing (that I have ranted about on Nofap in the past) is that a lot of older therapists are stuck in a baby-boomer mindset that people with porn addictions are either religious, or hung up on moral issues. The idea that you can actually be addicted, or even physically impacted by porn use just doesn't compute with them. My suspicion is that the best therapists (for us) are recovering addicts of some kind themselves, so they know what recovery involves.

So I would give it a try, but bare in mind that the wrong therapist could just be a waste of money.

 

When PAWS kicked off I went to see a therapist also simply because the symptoms were so bad and I had no idea what was going on. He did not have an answer for PAWS essentially but explained to me where my porn addiction originated from, and how it had shaped my life up until that point. Some people will see no value in such an explanation, but it helped me pinpoint the do's and don'ts in terms of recovery.

I think it is important to define why you are going to therapy before doing so. I went to a therapist because I felt as though my life was crumbling to pieces and I had no idea why. I wanted a therapist to tell me what was wrong and how to fix it. Looking back now, I realise that he was never going to be able to fix the problem for me, but he did set me on a path of how to heal.

Can a therapist help you understand the problem? Yes. Can they fix the problem for you? No.