Saving Ourselves For marriage

Thank you again for these links.

Okay, starting with the first part before the links where you list the chemicals released during masturbation, I will simply ask: is a thing/activity/behavior healthy simply because it releases mood boosting chemicals? My position is, no.

In the first article you presented it lists the benefits of oxytocin. This is typically called the "bonding chemical" and in the article it lists the benefits and lists that we release this chemical by touch, warmth, light, sound and smell. We also release this chemical when eating food. Now let me ask, does the fact that eating food release dopamine and oxytocin automatically make all food eating behavior healthy like emotional eating? No, I don't believe it does despite the mood altering chemicals it releases and I also do not see anyone say that it's a healthy behavior; of course I admit that I've never heard a doctor call masturbation unhealthy, but I think that's more because they know masturbation plays no significant role in a person's health whatsoever. But let's move one.

The second link you posted deals with sexual encounters aka sex with others aka not masturbation. The fourth article you posted shows the benefits of couples intimacy, also not masturbation and also not something I ever said I found unhealthy. Studies are also showing that it's possible that not all ejaculations are created equal and that the quality and make-up of semen released during masturbation is different than during intercourse.

The third article you present was from pubmed (love it) which presents a large 2016 study of prostate cancer risks and the possible connection in ejeaculation frequency. Most people in their desire to say "ah ha" miss the language of these articles. They are written in a way to be open to new findings. Hence why it says "Evidence suggests that ejaculation frequency may be inversely related to the risk of prostate cancer (PCa), a disease for which few modifiable risk factors have been identified."

Now I was going to write an entire response based on this but I found a better one from webMD on how to interpret this 2016 study and what it means. In it, after the funny more sex jokes, they wrote:

"What We Don’t Know

While research is promising, there’s still a lot scientists need to learn. Some things to consider:

• There’s no proof that ejaculating more actually causes lower chances of prostate cancer. For now, doctors just know they’re connected. It may be that men who do it more tend to have other healthy habits that are lowering their odds.

• Ejaculation doesn’t seem to protect against the most deadly or advanced types of prostate cancer. Experts don’t know why.

• Scientists don’t know if ejaculation during sex vs. masturbation has the same benefits. Some research has found that the makeup of semen is different for each. For example, semen during sex has higher levels of sperm and some chemicals. It’s possible that these could make a difference in a man’s odds of having prostate cancer.

• Not all studies have found a benefit. The 2016 study got attention because of its size (almost 32,000 men) and length (18 years). But some smaller studies have not shown the same good results. A few even found that some men, specifically younger men, who masturbated more had slightly higher chances of prostate cancer. Some researchers wonder if a man’s age may affect whether more ejaculation helps."

Source: https://www.webmd.com/prostate-cancer/ejaculation-prostate-cancer-risk

The study they are referring to on the last bullet point can be found here: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19016689/

Another interesting study regarding celibacy and prostate cancer:

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7242091/


What's the conclusion to all of this information? Well the conclusion is there isn't a definitive answer and that we could both be right or wrong. In my view there is no proof that masturbation decrease my risk of prostate cancer or helps treat depression. And while this is anecdotal, in all the years of dealing with diagnosed depression and doctors, not one has recommended masturbation as an anti-depressant treatment option.

I know you probably think I'm some anti-pleasure puritan but that's not true. I think pleasure is good but that this fact doesn't remove our responsibility as human beings to set boundaries. Masturbation, I believe, is a completely useless activity which neither helps us grow out of selfishness or cope with reality. I think the fact that it releases oxytocin, the bonding chemical, should all make us pause and rethink our position on it. As my therapist said, before you masturbate ask yourself "is this (image, memory, fantasy) something I want to bond with?" I had to ask myself, is it healthy to bond to pornogrphic/porn sub images? Is it healthy to bond to the past or fantasy? All of them, for me, came back as a big NOPE. Do I think it's healthy for anyone to bond to those? NOPE.

Anyway, that's all I'm going to say regarding masturbation since I don't want to continue derailing the thread.

P.s. Sorry for any typos. I don't have a computer so I type everything on my phone and fat finger stuff.

 

well you have your own views i respect that, now that it has been that the effect of masturbation are not anecdotal there remains the question of wether there are harmful or helpful and that i believe is for each to determine on his own for exemple you might tell me that watching/reading star-wars is useless but i will do it till the day i die.

 

Oh, I agree everyone should come to their own conclusion. I'm not here to police people or judge them personally for their decisions. I simply try to judge behaviors based on what I've read, experienced, and observed and accept that I'm neither impeccable nor infallible.


Thank you for the discussion in this thread.

May the force be with you.

 

Thanks.

Boundaries were indeed made clear early on and we stuck by them but as time went on and the closer we got, slowly but surely the boundaries began to get stretched and she was mostly the instigator for this initially. Porn didn't exsist in my life during this period at all.

The majority of time it was just making out and dry humping but occassionally it would get a bit more than that but very rarely did we remove clothes and go further. But even the dry humping made me feel awful afterwards. Once we had pushed through some of these boundaires, it was hard to go all the way back to just making out. And by this point, I came pretty low energy and made little effort to step up and really sort it out. I often would pick out issues in our relationship and the biggest one was our sexual activiity but I didn't follow through with enforcing these boundaries.

I am facing the consequences now.

Indeed if we did get back together again, we would have to make clear the boundaries again.

 

I was mostly thinking about men, when girl is sleeping with 10 different guys it is unnatractive to us

You sound like a feminist. Being a men and being a women is completely different and they should not act the same as you think they should xD

 

What a great post.
I am divorced and willing to find my soulmate.
I have had several casual encounters before but now i have made a vow ,the next girl i am gonna touch is gonna be my future wife.
I think i need to earn the right to her touch by being loyal even before meeting.

 

The differences between the sexes does not allow for a double standard. If the ideal woman is a virgin before marriage then the ideal man is also a virgin before marriage since he would live in a manner that protects and safeguards the standard of an ideal woman. It's called leading by example, which is what a patriarch is suppose to do and is part of the Golden Rule.

 

There is no doubt that there are differences between the sexes. Men are generally more interested in "things" and women on average are more interested in "People". Look at the stats: the vast majority of nurses are women and 99.8% of bricklayers are men. Men and women make different decisions based on what they are interested in. Men tend to be in leadership positions and there is nothing wrong with it so long as they don't become tyrannical.

When it comes to sexuality I would say most men (not all) would lean toward women that have respect for themselves and aren't giving it out to every Tom, Dick and Harry. Because if you don't respect yourself, how can you expect to receive any respect from anyone? I can't picture a man looking to start a long term relationship with a whore but ig nowadays anything goes. I see something really precious and special about a girl that is pure ^^ This indeed applies to men too and there is no doubt that we should be leading by example. Let us all remain pure and keep ourselves for the right person. God bless you guys.

 

Where's the quote from? I really like it!

 

My brother did something like this when he met his now wife and both of them agree that, despite being incredibly difficult, it helped them a lot. My brother was a sailor in the Navy and let's just say he really lived up to the sailor stereotype. His now wife, who's from Brazil, met him when he was stationed in Japan. Both of them hit it off and later got engaged. Both had, had pre-marital sex but my brother told me he wanted her to be special to him; he wanted her placed above the others in his past. When they both came back to the states he visited our parish priest and basically divulged his past and his desire for marriage. The priest had them go through a six month marriage prep where he told them he wanted two things: 1. No cohabitation and 2. No sex from then until their wedding day. My brother said you could hear crickets in the room they were so shocked by the requirement, but my brother said he would do anything so he moved in with family while she stayed at an apartment they were renting. They made it through with no slip-ups and got married and are still happily married to this day.

I wanted to write this to give you hope. I know some feel that because they had sex prior to marriage that all is lost, but its not. The wisdom of waiting can still help and be beneficial.

When I was younger, especially during my teens and twenties, I almost broke. I started viewing no sex before marriage as repressive. Yet, now I view it for what it is and that is to help safeguard a relationship by forcing two people to actually get to know each other and fall in love with the personhood of their parter. This is so important because by doing this we learn to love and respect the part of the person that is unique and which cannot be replaced; the part that remains even if sex was to no longer be possible. The other reason for why this rule exists is because comparison is the theif of joy. When you have sex before marriage you introduce experiences which now cause you to compare. People are then reduced to being valued on how much physical pleasure they can provide and not on who they are as a person. How many time have you heard people say "yeah, he/she is an asshole but the sex is great" and they stay in toxic relationships or use each other later even after they've broken up. It took me some time to realize this but the wisdom of not having sex before marriage isn't to repress people it's to ensure they never have bad sex because if they've never had sex then there is nothing to compare it with which means it could never be seen as bad. So this wisdom is really here to save us from ourselves and if you follow this wisdom because you believe in God then it should help you realize God isn't trying to be an asshole, he's trying to insure you never have bad sex, lol.

Anyway, I'm rambling, lol. Keep up the good fight.

 

Jane Eyre is the book. The author is Charlotte Bronte.

 

Life can be difficult and will be difficult. If she was unable to wait for you, she was probably not for you. She failed important test - sex was for her more important than you. If opposite, she would wait for you being happy only with your presence.
If she cannot withstand the difficulty of waiting, how can she withstand greater challenges of life, going through hardships later in life, hand to hand with you ? I feel your pain but being together is far more than about pleasure, obstacles always show attitude of people involved. I was in somehow similar situation. I feel you. Good luck and build yourself up on this, let go of what doesnt serving you.
Hugs!

 

Thank you for your message. You do make some good points which a friend of mine also made.

I do want to make it clear that with regards to my most recent relationship, the boundaries were indeed made clear early on and we stuck by them but as time went on and the closer we got, slowly but surely the boundaries began to get stretched and she was mostly the instigator for this initially but I also later would become the instigator. I liked the escapsim feeling tbh.

With her, the majority of time it was just making out and dry humping but occassionally it would get a bit more than that but very rarely did we remove clothes and go further. We never did Oral. That was another relationship years ago. I often would pick out issues in our relationship and the biggest one was our sexual activiity but I didn't follow through with enforcing these boundaries. I think I pressured her and made her feel unloved in my actions and in my withdrawlal from her whilst I tried to deal with lifes challemges in my own strength whilst thinking I was still ok with God.

 

Thanks so much!

 

Amen to that.

 

Tantric teachings are viewing sexual activity not as good or bad but rather as giving according results related to kind of sexual activity. I started to prefer the idea 'consequences' instead of judging something as good or bad. In my point of view, consequences that follow actions are the most righteous fruit of actions that speaks of themselves. So I modified a bit my view, because sexuality itself is so much misunderstood field of human nature so I don't want to add unnecessary heaviness on it. I stand for my opinions in this thread but I would like to actualize my attitude - don't want to divide it between bad or good - it's much more complex for me.

I found study :
The negative consequences of hypersexuality: Revisiting the factor structure of the Hypersexual Behavior Consequences Scale and its correlates in a large, non-clinical sample
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7750154/

 

Thanks! I added it to my collection of quotes.

 

Dear Rosamund,
Well done. I greatly admire your decision to do this. As a young man getting married and who has- by God's grace- managed to save myself (as has my fiancée) for marriage I can tell you that it is a difficult but highly rewarding path. As a Christian (and I'm not assuming anyone else is or isn't) the way of the Cross is followed by the joy of the Resurrection. So it is with saving oneself for marriage, especially in an age where virginity is mocked and ridiculed.
God bless you all.
H