Get educated, get tools, and learn to love withdrawals

@Psalm27:1my light

Thanks Psalm. When I was a regular poster I found this place one of the best tools I could use to overcome the problem. If I am being honest, whenever I had the desire to see porn, aka to get a dopamine high via that means, I came here and posted. I posted A LOT early on, then less and less as that desire faded and went away. If anyone is reading this I urge you go consider posting and reading here as an alternative activity to using. Gabe Deem says "read everything" about this problem. Get Educated. You have to know yourself and understand the problem if you are going to have a solid shot at overcoming it. I have seen that as part of a successful strategy for many members. To Psalm I would say, fear no evil, but study it, learn it, understand it, overcome it. Know your enemy. Many here think porn is the problem. It is not. The problem is in your head, between the ears, way above the belt. Everything we feel happens in the brain. Porn is not a porn problem; porn is a brain problem.

Much love.

Billy T. Kidd.

 

100% agree. Really what changed my perspective was my husbands csat told me to watch the backwards bicycle to see how the brain works, and to understand it wasn’t seeking porn or sex but rather that dopamine fix. Porn was just the tool and he had to retrain his brain to use other tools that were healthier. My husband does not like this forum, lol. But yes, it can be very helpful especially for those who cannot afford counseling.

 

Hi William, thank you for all the information in the post.

I also had a question for you;

Can you break down porn escalation? I had a really bad period recently where I was doing PMO for 6-8 hours a day, and I kept escalating through various genres, some very extreme. I’ve even seen stuff that could be against my sexuality. Ive been going on some pretty decent streaks, and when I lapse I do not binge, and I’ve noticed that quickly my attraction to women in real life has skyrocketed and also extreme porn has become somewhat repulsive. Whenever I lapse, I’ve noticed the content is getting softer and softer. First vanilla porn was turning me on like crazy again, then I could literally watch women solo, then pictures of women, then my imagination… at the same time I’ve noticed I can’t even fap to some of the old stuff anymore, my mind finds it extremely off-putting. It seems the longer I go without porn, the more I am simply attracted to good looking women, and old porn induced fetishes that never felt natural are becoming disgusting/repulsive.

Basically I just want to understand how this happened and why is it reversing?

 

Hi @BEATINGHOCD

Sure. Everything we understand about the condition we name "porn addiction" can be explained in terms of evolutionary neuropsychology. Those are big words to chew on but it is really quite simple. In terms of evolution, the most successful species are those that mass produce. The most successful survival trait for any species is the ability to recreate itself, to reproduce in a fairly big way. I know, you are thinking, what does this have to do with porn--I am getting there. People seldom stop and ponder the question: "Why do I like sex?", but the answer to that question is; we get a nuerological reward for it; a dopamine high. Think of a dopamine has as nature's carrot to encourage reproduction. Over millions of years of evolution, evolution has resulted in our brains obtaining a reward from thinking about sex, then seeking for sex, then engaging in sex, then having an orgasm. That reward can be simply defined as a dopamine high. The thing about the dopamine high is that we get it from just thinking about sex, but our brains did not evolve in an environment with porn, and porn allows for thinking about sex many times more than we would think about sex without it. Porn may be the most efficient means of producing a dopamine high, because when we watch porn, we really really engage in thinking about sex. In those moments, watching porn, our brains are actually in the porn scenes we are watching, in a manner of speaking, and the brain, in those moments gives us a super dopamine rush for what it perceives, only somewhat correctly, as us engaging in an activity to be rewarded.

Now to escalation, which is a process not an event, and should be understood in terms of sensitization, desensitization, and escalation, with escalation being the inevitable result of the first two events happening, in terms of porn escalation. In sex, but especially in porn, having one sexual partner or one sexual thought, over and over again becomes somewhat boring. That is called desensitization. Picture a man on a desert island, stranded, with one porn DVD and a laptop. He is bored so he watches the video, and he thinks that video is GREAT, because it produces a significant dopamine reward, because thinking about sex does that, and porn is great at producing dopamine highs. That is called sensitization. But by a month into the stay on the island the video becomes boring. It no longer produces the extreme dopamine high it did in the first place, and may even cease to produce it at all. That is called desensitization. Porn addicts, however, are not on an island with one video. They have, via porn, an infinite amount of novel sexual thoughts they can produce via porn. So, many guys, and it usually guys, start out watching porn they see in what they consider their ideal sexual situation in, often what some call vanilla porn. It's still porn, but still fairly straight non challenging representations of sex. They are sensitized to that...for a while until they become desensitized to it, at which point they have to look for porn that is no longer vanilla, porn that contains, usually, somewhat shocking, often somewhat degrading, sometimes tending toward aggression, sometimes involving gender bender, porn. They have to do this because the brain no longer is giving them the dopamine high they initially got from vanilla porn. Given enough time watching HSIP (High Speed Internet Porn), and a guy will "move through the categories." What he started out with to get his dopamine high no longer gives it, meaning he has desensitized to it, and he has to move on to something more hard core. That is called escalation. He needs something more hardcore than what he started out with to get his dopamine high. He has escalated into a more hardcore type of porn, but, eventually, given enough serious porn consumption, he will desensitize to that, and will have to find something even more hardcore. For many guys who watch porn over time they "jump the tracks" and move into porn that is no where near the vanilla porn they first began with because that simply no longer works to give them a dopamine high. Understand, this has nothing to do with a user's actual sexuality; it is about using porn to achieve a brain reward, a dopamine high. For a number of those guys they jump the tracks into porn that in no way reflects what the porn user associates with their normal or desired sexual behavior, and some guys begin to consume gay porn to get the dopamine high, because straight porn does not work for them. Understand porn is not sex and this is no commentary one anyone's sex life; this is about using porn, like a tool, to achieve a result, the result being a dopamine high. When we think about porn addiction many focus on porn, but that is incorrect, a distraction; porn is just a means to an end. A dopamine high is at the core of all addictions, including what we call porn addition, but what the user is addicted to is not porn, not watching porn, but using porn to get that high. The high is what anyone is addicted to.

If you do have HOCD it is likely you have escalated "through the categories", having started with much milder porn, but when you desensitized to that, you moved onto something more hard core, desensitized to that, and after some significant time of porn consumption "jumped the tracks" to gay porn. This is no criticism of anyone's sexuality or the porn they watch, but porn must be considered not so much in terms of its content, but in terms of the fact that new and novel porn will be required to produce a dopamine high over time, as in months or years.

Why new or novel porn? Back to evolution. Somewhere in our history nature experimented with mammals having multiple sex partners. Why? I think the question was: Does having multiple partners, and spreading genes around, increase a successful survival trait? The question aside, this leads to a discussion of the "Coolidge Effect", which is the recorded fact that given the opportunity for goats, for instance, to breed with multiple new partners, they will have sex until they drop, whereas with only one, they will breed a lot at the beginning, but then slowly quit breeding so much. Why? Desensitization.

The cure for all problematic porn consumption is not quitting porn, per se, though it is, but the cure actually requires a prolonged period of not obtaining a dopamine high via porn. That is a very uncomfortable proposition for a porn addict because a dopamine high is like momentary euphoria, and no one likes to give up euphoria. But, for those identifying as having HOCD, and are uncomfortable with it, as you clearly are, you probably got there the same way most do: sensitization to something you felt was close to whatever sexuality you believe you are, desensitization to that category, escalating to more hardcore porn, desensitization to that, and over time, with that pattern repeating itself, finally finding that only a certain type of porn you consider very hardcore can produce the dopamine high that all porn addicts are chasing, and is in fact the ONLY reason anyone likes porn, meaning they do not really like porn, but they love the dopamine high it produces, more efficiently, actually, that actual sex itself. One cannot have sex all day, every day, for six hours a day, producing often multiple orgasms, for years, but you can do that with porn, and that is how the addiction to a dopamine high happens. If you are stuck alone on an island with one centerfold, you would be unable to become addicted to a dopamine high via that centerfold because you would desensitize to it and have no other means to escalate. But, HSIP is infinite, it offers endless opportunity to escalate, and escalation is inevitably required for a porn addict to get their dopamine high. That process can often take years, and will required moving through the categories to harder hardcore porn, but there it is. That is why many people not only want to quit being a porn addict, but have become uncomfortable with the porn category that has become required for them to achieve a dopamine high.

Hope this helps.

Much Love.

WilliamOneAndDone.

 

Amazing, that was so clear and so easy to understand. I’ve heard bits and pieces of all of that before but never a straight to the point full explanation like that, huge thanks my friend.

I do also have HOCD, caused by the porn I got into. Also yes, I’m addicts to that dopamine high, and I get that high by seeing something new, some PMO sessions I would have flipped through 250-500 different videos just to keep it novel and stimulating. Got into many of the weirdest genres imaginable.

Lately tho I have been on some great streaks, and no binging whatsoever. I’ve noticed my tastes are COMPLETELY reversing, most of the porn induced fetishes are going away, some feel like they are gone completely. All I need is to see a beautiful girl in real life and I’m getting aroused, something that never happened during my addiction. Also just seeing “vanilla” content on porn is giving me the most insane dopamine rushes that actually feel natural, whereas the extreme stuff always felt wrong/taboo and that’s what gave me a dopamine rush, the taboo part. Like I said tho, it’s like once the desensitization starts to go away, all the extreme stuff is repulsive again, while what was natural before is becoming the natural again! So some mental clarity there, especially for my HOCD, but I’ve also come to realize HOCD is a separate issue and quitting porn will only help to resolve not completely get rid of if.

 

@BEATINGHOCD

Hi. Thanks for the kind words. Gary Wilson called it the "Great Porn Experiment". If you have not seen that video on YouTube, look it up. It is the definition of clarity.

When I first came to this place the concept of "porn addiction" was brand new. In fact, it was, and largely even now, is not accepted as a psychological malady. When I first came to this place I really did not even believe the condition we call "porn addiction" was real, or existed, or that anyone, including myself, was capable of experiencing it. Back then, once I accepted I fit the criteria of being addicted to porn, porn addiction was up close and personal; it was really how I defined myself as a human being. It was in my head. That is where you are at now, but in time, given work and the payment of pain, it goes away.

Years later, after having dealt with the problem, porn addiction is something that I can almost pick up, look at, and study. I am no longer here struggling to overcome the addiction. I overcame it years ago. But it still interests me.

The interesting thing about addictions is: We, humanity, have invented all of them. Addiction does not naturally occur in the environment we evolved in. Why not? Because it is not only NOT a successful survival trait, it is a negative survival trait. Being addicted to anything does not encourage advancement of the species.

But, humanity loves its addictions, because all addictions involve riding a dopamine high, and that dopamine high is what we can become addicted to. We love it so much that we have invented many means of achieving it that do not naturally occur in the environment we evolved in.

 

I'm heading to 10 days. Please support me, everyone. I'm feeling fresh and super motivated!!!!

 

I'm heading to 24 days. I'm feeling super fresh now. Keep going and conquering the new life guys!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Cool man! Congrats. Just a word of caution. When I used to get super excited about my day count early on, it usually resulted in slipping/relapsing. It's when I stopped obsessing about day count is when I was able to get real time under my belt. It's been 5 years since PMO. I'm not saying this to rain on your parade. Be happy you're sober for sure. I always say every day, I'm not using P is a miracle. Just be cautious and aware of what I'm saying. Trying to pass this info along so you don't have to learn the hard way.

 

we are all animals, have always seen my addiction to porn as a taboo, a really bad thing that i once thought was a demon possessing me, now when i take a step back, i realize this is a part of me that has just manifested in the wrong way, am 23, still a virgin, am physically fit work out regularly and have an insatiable urge to bond with a woman, this comes out in porn, what i noticed is, the times when i put my foot down and went without porn for awhile, i naturally started finding a way to meet more women, this is a realization i had recently, the more i see and observe what lead to a relapses (which most people don't, most just self judge and self abuse after a relapse), the clearer the path seems, i believe it just takes a very observant mind to see how your mind and body works and discipline and i'll be able to do this

 

Much appreciated, man

I'm heading to 36 days, which makes me more fresh and productive in my work, mate. Let's excite together, mate

 

I'm heading to 36 days. I'm feeling super fresh now, guysssss

 

WTF.

This thread was started 10 years ago, today.

William broadcasting. Turn the light on and step out of the darkness. I did it. Others have done it. You are not alone; you can do it too. Do it.

Ten years free.

"We" are young.

I mean humanity. Not porn addicts. Porn addicts are much newer than humanity. Soooo....We invent all our addictions. We are clever monkeys, too clever, not clever enough? We invented the internet. It was great. We then invented High Speed Internet. Even better. We then invented High Speed Interned Porn...and we blew our minds.

HSIP is possibly the the most efficient means we have invented to get a dopamine high. On a scale of 1-10, it is an 11, and even better, we cannot overdose on it, and the withdrawals cannot kill us.

No. I am not pushing porn.

I hate to say this but...becoming addicted to porn, and overcoming addiction to porn both TOTALLY SUCKS, and was one of the best learning experiences in my life. I got to learn about myself and humanity more than I ever would have without it. Not saying I wanted to learn about that, but learning about it improved my life.

Be self aware. Know yourself. Porn addiction and overcoming it made me more self aware than I ever was before. So, there is the sucks part, and then there is the part where you get to understand the "this sucks" part, and you get to explore who you really are, whether you want to or do not, and even when you hate it, you have to. In overcoming this, you have to look yourself in the mirror every single fucking day, until it is overcome. Quitting porn is looking yourself in the eye, good, bad, and ugly, until you finally know yourself. Then you will be free.

This is William, broadcasting. If you are in the dark, come to the light. To anyone who is hopeless, have hope. You are not alone. Not alone in addiction, not alone in becoming free. This problem can be fixed. Fix it. The solution to the problem is: Fix it. The person who is addicted is feeble compared to the person who overcomes it, and you can overcome it. Once you have overcome this, you will not break under torture, and pressure is laughable. You will not only be stronger than you were when you were addicted, you will be stronger than most other people. Who the fuck are they? They are the ones who have never overcome. They are the ones who had never to fix themselves. They are spoons. Once you overcome and fix yourself, and you will, you are a razor. Be your own master. Own yourself, and do not let it own you. Gary Wilson, whom we all owe so much to, said it right: Quit, just quit. Gary was not addicted, so he had no idea how painful that was, but he said it, and he was right. At the end of the day, end of the addiction, you just have to: Quit. Do not avoid the pain of it: want it, embrace it, seek it. Pain is the key to the cell you are in. Use it.

That is the answer.

Much love.

WilliamOneAndDone.

@OhWhenThe













































Just Quit. You have to take the pain, want the pain, expect the pain, embrace the pain, and at the end, you will eat it like candy.

Much love to all.

WilliamOneAndDone.

@OhWhenThe

 

Told another friend to learn to adjust and get used to the pain, I'm glad I'm not alone in this thought. I believe we must rewire to love the discomfort as well!

 

Hi William
I want to say a big Thank You! for the clarity and support you are providing. No one has put it quite like you and you have really helped me to see through the mechanics of this addiction. In the last days I re-read the whole thread a couple times. I know all of it is true, yet, I am still resisting. Re-reading helps me internalise the information so that is what I am doing now. I am focusing on the narrow path. My problem is addiciton and my solution is to quit. I am about 7 days in but these 7 days are different than before. I don't allow any imagination inside my head, I don't follow any sexual thoughts. They come by themselves and they sometimes stay for what feels like an eternity. But I don't engage. I just sit and wait and don't react. They have to leave. At some point they just have to. They cannot stay forever because there was a time when there were not.
I feel exhausted. I am a 100% determined. Exhaustedly determined.
Yesterday I used a substite for porn without realizing. Tons of sugar. Only after it happened, I realized it was a substitute for the dopamine button that used to be porn. I feel bad about it because not using substitutes is a very important part of the journey. Nothing is won if porn gets replaced by something else. This is the end of all addictions, not only one. It is the end of a way of life. A way of life that doesn't work anymore. It has served me somewhat well in the beginning when I didn't know any better. But now, there is no excuse anymore. Now i know better. The only real "sin" is to work against your better knowledge. Once you know, there is no excuse anymore. And I mean really KNOW. Not the kinda knowing where "I theoretically know that cigarettes are bad for me" but the knowing of "this is destroying my life and if I keep going this way, I am destroying myself". The knowing that is deep inside of you. The knowing that shows you the right way. You have to follow that - the alternative is spiritual death.
So again, thank you from the bottom of my heart William, you have provided so much clarity. Your words have found their way into my heart and for that I am deeply thankful.
Terence

 

Hi William! You had been given excellent informations here. I'm wondering your thoughts about social media in general especially like instagram. You know, porn might be found in social media, it can lead to porn consumption or in best way consumption through the platform itself, because like me, a lot of man use it as a sexual stimulation way. And I hate it, I hate that porn is literally fucking everywhere. Yes, social media can connect people, it can use beneficial ways but I don't like the fact that social media algorithms steals its users mental health. When I look instagram, I see tons of naked women, and even I click "not interesting" button or click somewhere else, or even change sensitive image option, the algorithm gives half naked women, and it is not just about sexual content actually, even user clicks a "cat video" algorithm gives more and more cat videos. I'm literally sick of this manipulation.

 

@Summer Son

Good to hear from you.

Being an porn addict was totally boring. Well, except for the dopamine high I mean. Laughing emoji here.

So, being an porn addict was boring. Quitting porn, however, was very, very interesting.

Quitting porn hurt because it involved withdrawals.

But, also, quitting porn made me take time to study the human brain, and that opened my mind up to a greater reality than I had never really been aware of before. I had experienced sexuality, but I had never studied it. Experiencing a thing is not the same as understanding a thing.

So we start with experiencing porn. Mindless.

Some of us become addicted to porn. On some levels I would equate this as the destruction of "self."

THEN, for some of us, we study the problem, and our minds are blown. Mine was, at least.

I will never thank porn for expanding my mind, but I will thank quitting porn for vastly expanding my understanding of how my brain works. Gary Wilson is really the one who did that. Overcoming porn addiction made me acutely SELF AWARE. I had to be self aware because, for me, it was only in being self aware that I could overcome porn addiction. I had to know what it is in order to overcome it. I do not blame anyone outside myself for becoming addicted; I blame myself for becoming addicted because I was ignorant; ignorant of what the condition was; ignorant that I could be susceptible to the addiction; ignorant that the addiction was even possible.

What I understand now is, that for me, it is not social media, which as you have identified as being drenched in porn, that is the "problem". The problem is the human brain, which loves sexual thoughts, because those are rewarded with a dopamine reward.

I am not critiquing the human brain. In this matter, it functions the way nature intends it. The most successful survival trait in nature is the ability to reproduce. A species does not survive without that trait, and nature has hardwired the most successful species on this planet not with the mere ability to reproduce, but with a desire to reproduce. That desire is a dopamine reward.

It is of interest to me that the dopamine reward, the purpose of which is to encourage reproduction, is not given as a reward for only "reproduction", but as a reward for seeking reproduction, thinking of reproduction, having sex, regardless of whether the sex results in reproduction.

You discuss manipulation, but I no longer feel manipulated because I recognize what is being done and the purpose and means of it being done.

We, humanity, have figured out a way of pushing a button to get a dopamine high.

That button has been there, probably, since before we were homo sapiens. We drew boobs on cave walls probably before we invented written language, and possibly before we invented spoken word. I mean, who does not like boobs, right? Joke, joke...well.

Being clever we figured out we could use visual and audio sexual renditions to produce a dopamine high/aka dopamine reward, which is actually hard wired into our brain, not for the reward itself, but because the reward leads to something nature really wants: Us making babies.

It is important to understand that no addiction exists that was not invented by us (humanity).

Drugs, alcohol, gambling, porn.

What about sex addiction? One could argue that, like a hunger to eat food, a hunger to have sex is innate. It is, sort of, but it is not naturally occurring, because prior to a century or so a go, an availability of multiple potential partners was rare or did not exist.

Then, around 1990, we, humanity, invented the internet, or, depending on who you talk to, that was when it became widely available, worldwide. We immediately started using it for porn. At the time we began "using the internet for porn" people did not understand, either those watching it or those creating it, that porn could be addictive, or more specifically, we could use porn to achieve a dopamine reward, which reward was addictive.

Somewhere around 2007 we invented High Speed Internet Porn, and that is when porn consumption became problematic. Most people are not addicted to social media generally, such as what is found on instagram, though they "like" the dopamine reward they get from the sexual imagery they find there. It was really with the invention of High Speed Internet Porn that people began consuming porn in such a way as to bend their brains to expect a very heavy dopamine hit multiple times a day via PMO. Of course, at the time, we were not thinking, "time to binge on a dopamine hit", because that concept had not really been conceived of, and certainly was not widely embraced by the neurological physician community.

The concept is still not widely accepted, in the sense of being recognized as a thing by the DSM-IV. But, enough people are beginning to understand the very simple concept that as thoughts of sex result (naturally) in a dopamine high in the brain, and that nothing more than porn (possibly not even sex) for, at least, some people, can result in a self administered dopamine high, that the use of porn to achieve that dopamine high, is something we can easily abuse leading to addiction. I define addiction here as difficulty in quitting, and actual pain (withdrawals).

I, personally, believe porn is here to stay, and, of course, the use of sexually explicit or just sexually implicit imagery is hard wired into what we are exposed to on social media because it is "interesting", if interesting is defined as content resulting in a dopamine high, and frankly that is as good a definition as any. This, by the way, translates as well to our relationship with food. The brain rewards with thinking about it, seeking it, and getting it, with a dopamine high. Don't fear the dopamine high, but understand it it nature's way of pushing us in certain directions, but, also, the reward can be manipulated. It was manipulated before HSIP, and is manipulated everywhere all the time because sex sells. Translation: Things that result in a dopamine high are VERY INTERESTING to humans, whether we want them to be, or not.

Recognizing this, accepting this, being SELF AWARE, are key. I am very aware of it, and it does not bother me anymore. I am aware that when I go to my wi-fi, it will be flooded with, at least, sexually implicit imagery that I like and find interesting because it is sexually implicit. Music is drunk with sexual implication, and sometimes overt sexuality. If you look at the top 40 songs, I do not think there is one in which sexuality is not expressly or implicitly referenced, either in the song, or the video, or both. Why? Because a thought of sex is rewarded with a dopamine high, and homo sapiens find dopamine highs very, very, interesting.

I am uncertain you are seeking advice, but if so, here it is: Quit all social media that offends, or accept that all social media will carry some sexual content, and just deal with it.

I have some humor with it. If, for instance, I were to go on Yahoo, which inevitably has something marginally triggering, and often overtly triggering, I will either not click on it, or I will consciously say to myself, "well, here goes a minor dopamine rush," because I am getting a dopamine rush if I click on it. I am not bathing in dopamine like I did before I quit, but a dopamine rush is not only inevitable in life, but is nature's way of pushing us (when done healthily) is a good direction. I know sometimes a milkshake and a burger are not, overall, good for me, but once a year I still allow myself to have the dopamine drench that seeking them and eating them give me. Self awareness is key. Know yourself.

I hope something I have said helps.

Much Love.

WillIAM