Says She's Supportive...Then Isn't

[OntheSurf4ce]

This is hardly mature. For a person to be addicted to porn for years then go on a 5 day streak but relapse does not need that reaction. Its not helpful.

I even put it in my post to you. Why not just say "I'm very happy you went 5 days but I understand you relapsed. It is a little disappointed and hurtful to me but I'm glad you are doing this for us. I hope you go for 500 days and beyond"

Now THAT would have been mature.

To leave and saying "i'm hurt" is passive aggressive and selfish. OP had a right to be angry. Hes trying his best. The last thing he needs is someone just leaving cause he slipped up.

@Physicist - Honestly, I see what you mean, but not everyone can think clearly when they feel hurt, ESPECIALLY AFTER he had already told her of his journey and how he had this addiction, but to a point, that card will become old to hear from her point of view. Not to bash the OP, because we're all in this together, he needs to learn how to separate excuses from reality. Just because he told her he's addicted to porn and working towards it, doesn't give him a free pass to just shrug it off whenever he relapses. Not saying that he is at all, because from what I've read he's not at all, which is great on his part. But the point I'm trying to make is that, he is struggling with his own demons inside yes, but his partner is as well. She is ALLOWED to be hurt, and she is allowed to show that she is hurt. If I was extremely angry with a friend of mine, or hell, even my Fiancee, it would be almost impossible for me to say "I understand...etc..." - I'd say what was on my mind, without hurting feelings.

You have to look at it this way. She got up, left the room and went and slept on the couch. What can be passive aggressive about that? It's not like she said "Oh no Honey, I understand, you're doing your absolute best" in a snarky tone and proceeded to leave and sleep on the couch. She got up, and slept on the couch. She was expressing her hurt feelings to her partner, as couples should be allowed to do! It's the same in any addiction.

I had a friend who was addicted to Heroin for a long time, and would go on clean streaks for 3+ weeks, and when he relapsed, boy oh boy, his parents would show just how upset they were at him. They didn't disown him, they didn't kick the crap out of him, they didn't turn him into police...they disciplined him. Punished, sent to rehab, yelled. They showed that they still cared by not kicking him out of the house, by not calling the cops, but instead by doing what parents should do and getting him the help he needed with a bit of tough love.

You're making it sound like his partner shouldn't be hurt or offended. I see it this way, if his partner were to say "I understand honey, it's okay" - don't you think that OP would get the sense that if she wasn't offended this first time, she wouldn't be offended the 2nd, 3rd, 4th, or 5th time he relapsed?

I just went through a similar thing with my Fiancee, where I told her about my addiction, and she was completely understanding. But if I think for one second that she won't be upset with me if I were to relapse, then I'm kidding myself. Making the initial confession made her see my addiction and understand my addiction, but making a conscious and clear effort to uphold my promise is by far way more important than P. If I relapsed, I'd expect the same reaction from my Fiancee as the OP's partner gave to him. So honestly, coming from a guy, he has a right to be upset, but he OP shouldn't get it twisted about what he's ACTUALLY upset about. He needs to be sure to not confuse his feelings of guilt for being mad at his partner for not supporting him. To me, that's what it sounds like he's doing. He's portraying the guilt he feels for relapsing and turning it into being upset about his partner not supporting him, when she has every right to leave the room and get the space she needs for a little bit.

 

[Kenzi]

This is total bullshit. Perpetuating lies so that males have an excuse to justify their juvenile and selfish behavior. WOMEN love sex. BOYS love porn. See?

Yes, I'll agree with this
Anyone who says the above statement hasn't spoken to a SO about why any left, or created a Boundary.
If we women didn't love sex and intimacy wasn't of value, none of us would be here.
We would be PAs or oblivious to your problem because we simply would not give a flying F.
PA would not be even a threat to relationships and this website wouldnt exist.
That's how much that is BS.
Because truth be told, whether or not PIED is a issue for men, unless women were in the equation...
It wouldnt be a issue for men, period.
And as long as anyone wants to continue to be with a screen because they haven't reached out or aren't truly trying to connect with any other person outside of themselves, they don't really care... So how could they really know?

And also, to the OP you can't be in a relationship with no boundaries.
It will simply fail.
Just because they aren't outlined, doesn't mean that they don't exist.
If you want to, you should talk with your SO so it's not a blindside next time about what the repercussions are to which actions.
I'm sure she'd like a outline too.
Might make your relationship go a little smoother.
But I think she handled everything just fine.
And further more, I agree with onthesurface... Do not confuse your feelings of guilt with being mad at your partner.
It makes a bad mix in the relationship.

 

[Sunshinestar88]

I don't think she was being mean or trying to upset you.
We all deal with pain in different ways.
We don't just say our partners PMO addiction hurts us just so we can say it.
It really fucking hurts!
It damages the partner as well as the user.
Relapses for the partner can be hard to take. We get our hopes up thinking that this is it and things will get better. But, then let down by a relapse. It's just a disappointment and your partner has every right to feel disappointed.
I think relapses are somewhat important. It helps to know what to avoid in the future and gives you a better grasp on learning your triggers.
It sounds like she just needed time to think about it and I think she handled it in a mature manner. I wish you luck on your journey OP.

 

[ItsNeverTooLate]

So one thing I think I'll consult with my therapist is whether my telling her about every relapse would impress upon me the consequences more vividly and encourage me to try harder? Just something I'm thinking about.

My 2¢.

So much good input on here. Your openness to their comments is commendable.

Regarding your relapses, as an SO I would want to know. But I do feel your therapist could be helpful in discussing a way on how you can present the information with minimal impact to her emotionally.

For me, I feel loved by acts of service (http://www.5lovelanguages.com/profile/couples/). So when my SO relapsed, he gave me a massage, he cleaned the litter boxes, he asked how my trip went, how was traffic, does my car need anything done? Basically doing what was in his power to reduce my stress post traveling. Then he sat me down, told me how important I am to him, how sorry he was for the pain he caused, how unintentional it was, how he got drunk despite my warning and it lead to porn. He said he was sorry and would understand if I couldn't handle his behavior. He said I deserved better. He pointed out how he came to his senses, how he didn't follow through with M which was very difficult for him, how he instantly regretted it, how he turned off the Internet for the rest of the week and what he did to distract him from P for the rest if the time I was absent.

So he
1. Reduced my everyday "stresses" (chores)
2. Acknowledged my feelings and support
3. Addressed where he went wrong
4. Presented a plan for preventing future relapses
5. Said he was sorry and was willing to accept consequences to his behavior

I respect that you were upset and I feel it shows maturity to come on this forum and feel comfortable to express how you truly feeling. Then acknowledge the input from your peers. And finally admit that your initial reaction was based on a knee jerk reaction but you have taken the time to reflect on your actions and understand your spouses. Congrats on the progress you've made! Keep making those strides and staying open minded to the help given here. For the most part people here want to see both you and your spouse happy and with each other! Best wishes!

 

[GG2002]

This sounds like the unfortunate reality :/

Sometimes when we screw up we want to lash out at the person that we are apparently changing for, like its their fault we're going through this struggle and "How can't they understand how hard it is??" "Why aren't they more supportive??". In the end though, its yourself that you were really upset with, her reaction to your relapse just provided a timely outlet for your frustration. Recognize that this is your addiction trying to keep control and make you believe that all this shit you're going through isn't really worth it. Remember that you are changing for yourself and while the support of a SO through the process can be helpful, it isn't necessary for success.

The second part of this statement has proven to be very helpful in my reboot and recovery:

"If the situation was reversed and you found out that she had been lying to you and sneaking around getting sexual gratification from looking at other men, fantasizing about other men, etc etc and couldn't or wouldn't get sexual pleasure with you, how would you feel?"

Take a second, every day, every time you get frustrated or heated about your SO's opinion on this issue and think to yourself:

What would it be like to be my partner?

Try to see things from her side of the fence. Climbing over to her side, her perspective, will give you a new vision of yourself.

And smile, You Can Do It!

Yes that's it the addict needs to see it from the SOs perspective and many refuse to even open their mind to that and I don't think most men would stay with a porn addicted wife. I think more women do.

 

[GG2002]

Addicts in recovery are often so hyper focused on their own feelings and pain they can't stop to feel anyone else's. Feelings they have pushed down for years are bubbling up and they have a SO that is devastated. We want you to succeed but we can't push our own feelings aside nor should we be expected to. As a SO my thoughts would be It was five days and you already relapsed? This is never going to get fixed. You told me you would stop and did not how can I ever take your word for anything again? Your partner actually handled things quite maturely. The goal is not to get her not to react the goal is to stop the pmo! Remember she has no control here you have it all that's tough and her world has been turned upside done.

 

[Physicist]

Replace this with any other situation and her behaviour starts to look completely ridiculous. People here are so focused at OP being in the wrong that they completely excuse the girl.

In retrospect, perhaps only a few girls would understand. Luckily I have had that experience and it was far better at helping me overcome PMO than writing a long post asking who was wrong.

 

[GG2002]

Replace this with any other situation and her behaviour starts to look completely ridiculous. People here are so focused at OP being in the wrong that they completely excuse the girl.

In retrospect, perhaps only a few girls would understand. Luckily I have had that experience and it was far better at helping me overcome PMO than writing a long post asking who was wrong.

Many people need closure when a relationship ends and part of that often involves assigning fault. Often it makes people feel better to think their partner was worse than they were. The problem with the logic is that if you say it's all her fault or his I did nothing wrong then you repeat what you actually did wrong in your next relationship. Very rarely are the problems in the relationship all the fault of one person. But when people have a total blind spot with regard to their own the only person that hurts is them. The problem also arises when you think everyone views the world the same way we you do and dismissing any other opinions as "ridiculous." If a woman feels that using porn equates to cheating and she tells you that and you still do it and when she gets upset you say "I don't think that's cheating, most people agree with me so you have no right to be angry?" That's not how things work. No one ever said that what the women did was acceptable all we did was explain what she may have been thinking and why she did what she did. That is to help the writer. With understanding comes wisdom and the ability to move on. So many people walk around angry. "She cheated on me she's a horrible person, " but when you ask why do you tho just she cheated the answer is well she's just a fill in tu

It is a partner's duty to understand, forgive and try to help their partner. One partner's extreme behaviour in response to the other partner's addictive behaviour is just as problematic as the addictive behaviour itself. Both behaviours become part of the journey and both partners are responsible. The alternative is to break the partnership.

Ehh I don't totally agree when it comes to what you say is extreme behavior. When one partner finds out they have been lied to the entire relationship and is in no way at fault extreme behavior should be expected. And I totally agree the betrayed needs to be open to forgiveness BUT the addict must understand that may take some time. A big part of the conflict I see between SOs and addicts and what happened in my relationship is that many addicts have not gotten to the I'm sorry part. They may say it but they don't act it and they always couch it like I'm sorry but you did this and that's worse or why don't you forgive me already things like that. A SO can't begin to forgive until that is done and so forgiveness never occurs. The addict thinks he's pushing things along because it hurts him too much but in reality he's prolonging th situation. Thats why I left. I almost feel like the addict is trying to make the playing field even again and expecting that both parties are at fault but that's just not the case and the innocent partner becomes increasingly frustrated with this. A big difference in men and women is that women see relationships as collaborative efforts. So if being and saying we are sorry is best for the relationship we do it. Women apologize for everything. Men on the other hand see apologizing as being weak. Many want to win to gain the upper hand and this underlying behavior on top of addiction makes it so hard to forgive.

 

[GG2002]

I hear what you're saying and I am not suggesting that SO's take any responsibility for their partner's addiction. I meant both partners are responsible for the relationship and the healing process. I think SO's get directly involved in some cases (i.e. in dialogue with their partner about their addiction) and in others they are involved just to try to adjust and be supportive of the PA in their recovery process in whatever form that takes. In my relationship I've decided to keep my wife at a distance in relationship to my personal struggle with recovery. My recovery involves trying to protect her from any further negative consequences of my addictive behavior. (Also she would be bored stiff [and completely turned off] hearing about it all the time!!) But, I know, on some level, she feels where I am and what is up with me to a degree and she is sensitive to that, and we are in an organic free-flowing relationship in terms of our sexuality. I think we're both giving it space to be whatever it is right now and see where it goes.

I don't agree with your generalizations about how men are and how women are. For example I am much quicker to apologise than my wife is, also my wife is very competitive and does not want to seem weak, whilst I am less bothered and more inclined to give in over arguments. Also, I don't know any men who don't see relationships as a collaboration.

Agreed and of course every situation is different but there's been a lot of research and articles on why men have issues with apologies and that in general they have a harder time with it. That's not to say all men and women fit into that mold that's never the case with anything it's just a general difference researchers have observed. It's one of the men are from mars women are from Venus things!

 

[EyesWideOpen]

I am seeing a lot of addict mindset in this thread, mainly along the lines of SOs have no right to their own reactions . There is no PA that has a right to be critical of how an SO handles her (or his) feelings. That is not for you to decide and how dare you assume otherwise. Some of you have taken away so much from your SOs and treated them with so much disrespect and caused so much pain (intentional or not) and now you think you get to dictate what is a correct response? You guys have some real balls. This is not all about you but you seem to think it is. (Not referring to the OP. He seems to have gotten this already.). Betrayal trauma is real. It affects some a little, it affects some a lot. You don't get to decide who it affects and how much.

Replace this with any other situation and her behaviour starts to look completely ridiculous. People here are so focused at OP being in the wrong that they completely excuse the girl.

In retrospect, perhaps only a few girls would understand. Luckily I have had that experience and it was far better at helping me overcome PMO than writing a long post asking who was wrong.

This isn't any other situation. You can't compare it to anything else. Good for you that your g/f handled it in a way that you preferred. I wonder what you would have done if she had handled it in a way you didn't like.

It is a partner's duty to understand, forgive and try to help their partner. One partner's extreme behaviour in response to the other partner's addictive behaviour is just as problematic as the addictive behaviour itself. Both behaviours become part of the journey and both partners are responsible. The alternative is to break the partnership.

It is a partner's choice to understand and forgive. It is a partner's duty to take care of herself first. It is your duty to not put your partner in this position in the first place but you did and here the two of you are. You don't have the right to determine how quickly she heals and if she supports you.

 

[Queen_Of_Hearts_13]

@EyesWideOpen Yes, your post is brilliant!

None of the below is for the OP, you do seem to have read the responses and gotten some understanding!

Seriously, if any of you addicts had your SO cheat/betray you for months or years, would you think you had no right to react and your duty is to be understanding? Please. SO's have a choice to make once the addiction comes out. It's their right to be able to choose. Hiding the addiction from your partners forced the partners into a false relationship, basically taking away your SO's right to decide to be in a relationship with the addict or not. Once the addiction is out, the SO has every right to react accordingly.

It is a partner's duty to understand, forgive and try to help their partner. One partner's extreme behaviour in response to the other partner's addictive behaviour is just as problematic as the addictive behaviour itself.

Question, would you say to a woman who is in an abusive relationship it's her duty to understand? (because addicts here have often abused their SO's with gaslighting. http://www.health.com/relationships/gaslighting-signs-solutions ) Also, addiction falls solely on the addicted. Addicts should take responsibility for their actions.

 

[GG2002]

I respect your right to comment but I haven't judged you or your situation. I would appreciate in future if you did not judge me or project your frustrations onto me and my relationship. I find your post critical and unsupportive and it doesn't help me or my partner.

I don't see that anyone is passing judgment on you or being critical. I think we are all just expressing an opinion that you do not agree with and are taking it as being judgmental and critical. I agree with the SOs that I do see a lot of addicted thinking in your posts. Could you maybe consider these perspectives rather than just shutting them out and saying that people are passing judgment? And are you saying that you speak for your partner? Has she read this information and said that it was not helpful to her? Being supportive does not mean that someone agrees with you. In fact the most supportive person is the one that calls on your crap when everyone else is placating you. Read some of the posts from the men in recovery on here and see how they got their partners to forgive them and how they got through things. I know you are struggling and I know you are angry and defensive. That's all part of the deal. I suspect that eventually you will let this perspective into your through process and if you recovery and read this post a year from now, you will see exactly what we all mean, you likely won't even recognize yourself or your words. The addicted mind thinks differently.

 

[EyesWideOpen]

I respect your right to comment but I haven't judged you or your situation. I would appreciate in future if you did not judge me or project your frustrations onto me and my relationship. I find your post critical and unsupportive and it doesn't help me or my partner.

I wasn't aware that everyone has to respond with rainbows and butterflies. I don't treat people with kid gloves, I say it like it is. Some people can handle that, some people can't.

I'm not projecting my frustrations at all. I do forgive my husband and I support his path to sobriety. It is a process and still a work in progress but i'm here to stay and I'm behind him 100%.

I quoted you because you basically stated that all SOs need to be supportive or else the relationship is over and that is frankly quite selfish and unfair. But I wasn't directing my answer only to you and i wasnt judging your situation. I was speaking to any PA that might share the same mindset towards his (or her) SO.

I used those two quotes because they are both wrought with addict mentality that the PA must be stroked and coddled during recovery while the SOs feelings don't matter.

 

[SupBruh]

Guess you learned the hard way that you don't tell your SO that you've relapsed.

Been in a similar situation, don't tell her the details and just say you haven't PMO'd since that one last time.

 

[GG2002]

Guess you learned the hard way that you don't tell your SO that you've relapsed.

Been in a similar situation, don't tell her the details and just say you haven't PMO'd since that one last time.

Yea bud that's s great idea and it will definitely improve your relationship that's how you are supposed to treat people you love right? You lie to them because everyone knows that it's better to protect yourself than it is to be honest you of course are the most important person in this relationship and you get the decide when your partner gets the truth. Aren't relationships built on lies always the most successful. Great idea good luck with that!

 

[Kenzi]

Yea bud that's s great idea and it will definitely improve your relationship that's how you are supposed to treat people you love right? You lie to them because everyone knows that it's better to protect yourself than it is to be honest you of course are the most important person in this relationship and you get the decide when your partner gets the truth. Aren't relationships built on lies always the most successful. Great idea good luck with that!

I feel like this is worth a fist bump

 

[SupBruh]

You lie to them because everyone knows that it's better to protect yourself than it is to be honest you of course are the most important person in this relationship

You hit the nail on the head.

Nobody gives a fk if you're honest or not. Anyway it's not like a partner would understand, to us it's just one relapse among a thousand because we were bored/depressed that one moment, to her it seems like we're cheating on them. Why would I strain my relationship over this petty bullsh*t.

 

[EyesWideOpen]

Hello @EyesWideOpen I can see that I took your use of 'you' and 'your' personally. I shouldn't have, and I am sorry I reacted badly towards you. That was unhelpful of me.

Well, this is an tough subject for all of us. I think sometimes it's hard not to take things personally when we are so emotionally wrapped up in it, myself included. I went back and read what I wrote and I can see how you thought I was speaking directly to you. I apologize for that. My directness is fantastic for my job, but not necessarily for sensitive subjects and it doesn't always come across well in print.

I don't think I did state this. What I said reflects my understanding of a committed relationship which is about mutual understanding. In sickness and in health, for better or for worse etc. I think being in a relationship means supporting each other. I don't think this means people shouldn't express how they feel, or that they should suppress feelings of betrayal and grief. Of course they are entitled to their reactions, and the partner should listen and be supportive, as a partner.

Ideally, this is the hoped outcome, yes, I agree. Your statement, however, felt like a blanket statement that a partner had no right to feelings of betrayal and must come along side the PA and support him instead. In reading other responses, I see I am not the only one that felt that way. After explanation, I understand that is not how you meant it.

I am sorry you are suffering, and I am sorry if anything I posted was hurtful to you and I wish you well.

Thank you for that. We are all hurting and learning to heal on this journey. Nothing you said triggered me. My directness sometimes comes off as angry, at least in text, and I wasn't at all. I just tend to call it like i see it and often say what others are thinking. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it gets me in trouble. Well wishes to you also.

 

[Kenzi]

You hit the nail on the head.

Nobody gives a fk if you're honest or not. Anyway it's not like a partner would understand, to us it's just one relapse among a thousand because we were bored/depressed that one moment, to her it seems like we're cheating on them. Why would I strain my relationship over this petty bullsh*t.

OK.... I've seen my SO through his relapses for 1..
For 2, he's a year and a half PM free.
For 3, with that mindset, you will never be free of your addiction

And 4....it sounds like you don't want to.

So, after talking with countless addicts (and SOs) about their addictions
( & about the addiction ride they got dragged into)
, I think at this point, if anyone can pass a judgment on who would understand, it's going to be a partner whos PA actually got his head out of his ass and became sober.
Because if you want your partner to be one who stays, you might want to stop Lying to her.
I guarantee that's hurting your relationship worse than the porn.

Edit - - if this is so petty, why are you here?

 

[sparkywantsnoPMO]

All,

I would ask that the discussion return to focusing on the OP's specific needs. I think the discussion being had now is very deep and deserves been covered, but it would be more beneficial on its own thread. Thank you.