Telling the Wife

Roady said:
What do you think @RiverBlue ?
Does this makes any sense to you and does that make you give other answers on @Lilla_My 's questions?
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I agree completely in the abstract. It's all part of the general set of pornography.

But in a relationship, webcams/sexting may cross over a boundary somewhere. If just viewing pics/vids is one side of the spectrum and actual in-person adultery is the other end, webcams/sexting is probably over near the adultery end. Maybe it will never lead to anything in the real world, but . . . It's the proximity to actual real world adultery -- maybe a precursor to it, that could be problematic depending on the situation. It's a problem that in the abstract or for single people wouldn't be an issue. It's not the thing itself, but what it's associated with.
 
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RiverBlue said:
I agree completely in the abstract. It's all part of the general set of pornography.

But in a relationship, webcams/sexting may cross over a boundary somewhere. If just viewing pics/vids is one side of the spectrum and actual in-person adultery is the other end, webcams/sexting is probably over near the adultery end. Maybe it will never lead to anything in the real world, but . . . It's the proximity to actual real world adultery -- maybe a precursor to it, that could be problematic depending on the situation. It's a problem that in the abstract or for single people wouldn't be an issue. It's not the thing itself, but whether what it's associated with.
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If I'm hearing you right you're saying that each relationship needs to set their own boundaries and lines. What may be "cheating" for one couple may not be for another. Even on this forum what may be ok for one couple is not for another.

However, I think everyone can say that lying/deception is bad for trust in any relationship. And that each couple "should" have talks about these things to be on the same page or else it could cause bigger issues down the line. A lack of communication can only makes thing worse, as even if the porn viewing isn't considered cheating by some (river), the lying and hiding would almost certainly cross a line.
 
RiverBlue said:
And, as far as watching porn, I wouldn't really have any objection to it at all.
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I remember in the beginning of my husbands recovery, I asked him how he would feel if I watched porn. I was hoping to drive in the point that it was wrong. However, he said that he would not mind it, and would be okay with it if I did, which of course, threw me for a loop.
However, later in his recovery when it was mentioned again, he objected to it. He said that it would bother him deeply if I watched porn.

I point this out because the longer you go, the more your mindset will change. Something to keep in mind, especially as the DeltaFosB levels begin to drop.

I know with everyone coming on here and giving their perspectives on their situations, it can feel as though you're being pushed one way, then the other. I'm hoping you'll keep an open mind and walk down the middle with all this information you're receiving, and be open to changing your mind about things the further you get in recovery.

I have studied the neuroscience behind this addiction for several years now and I can say within reason, that there is a whole world of information about yourself that you've missed out on.
 
DefendMyHeart said:
I remember in the beginning of my husbands recovery, I asked him how he would feel if I watched porn. I was hoping to drive in the point that it was wrong. However, he said that he would not mind it, and would be okay with it if I did, which of course, threw me for a loop.
However, later in his recovery when it was mentioned again, he objected to it. He said that it would bother him deeply if I watched porn.

I point this out because the longer you go, the more your mindset will change. Something to keep in mind, especially as the DeltaFosB levels begin to drop.

I know with everyone coming on here and giving their perspectives on their situations, it can feel as though you're being pushed one way, then the other. I'm hoping you'll keep an open mind and walk down the middle with all this information you're receiving, and be open to changing your mind about things the further you get in recovery.

I have studied the neuroscience behind this addiction for several years now and I can say within reason, that there is a whole world of information about yourself that you've missed out on.
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Even now - months into SAA and therapy and such - I still would have no problem with her watching pornography without me. And she used to be ok with me watching it infrequently (as was the old therapist who we don't see anymore). Right now she'd have no problem with me masturbating, however, I've refrained because I'm afraid that it would lead me to finding masturbation materials and it's not worth it.

However I crossed many lines including roleplaying and compulsive usage that I was not able to control. I crossed lines into emotional affairs through roleplay (not webcamming) and lying about usage that I know I wouldn't be OK with and it makes perfect sense why she's not OK with it either.

That's why I've quit and I'm working on the mental reasons why I couldn't regulate.
 
DefendMyHeart said:
I know with everyone coming on here and giving their perspectives on their situations, it can feel as though you're being pushed one way, then the other. I'm hoping you'll keep an open mind and walk down the middle with all this information you're receiving, and be open to changing your mind about things the further you get in recovery.
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I started this thread do get advice, not with the intention of trolling anyone. I really am taking in everything everyone is saying and weighing it carefully against my beliefs and my situation. I want to thank everyone for posting so honestly, if I haven't done that before. And I admit the ability to change my mind with different information and with different experiences. Thanks
 
Lilla_My said:
But... since it wouldn't affect your marriage (that you knew of) and since it isn't cheating, it would be okay to not tell you?

Yes. Everything that has to do with other men and monogamy, 100% yes.


If your view is that porn in moderation is good for you, and porn and other women are forever going to be involved in her life, then maybe she should be informed about that. She can't make a decision about her past, but she has the right to shape her future in her own best interest.


We don't know what effect it has, if any. All I know: my porn free husband rock my freaking world in bed. Maybe it would be a real treat for her to explore the sober you?
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the sober you! Well put
 
p1n1983 said:
You are rigth. Man solve their problems by themselves. Work on it to solve it, maybe if you need to, talk this with close friend or maybe a profesional.
Telling this to your woman is only going to bring drama to the table. Showing this weak side of yours is going to make her don't trust your masculine core and loose attraction and respect for you.

If you want, once this addiction is over or you are preatty clean, you can tell her about it as and example of sthrenth and improvement.
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This is flat out bad advice.
 
p1n1983 said:
Since we don't know her opinion on the matter your hole post has no fundament at all. Maybe she is ok with porn, maybe she doesn't care about it or maybe is the worst thing that happened to her.. assuming that she think like you and advice from that view is not accurate.

At the end of the day she never tell him that looking at porn is a betrayal, so if it's not in the boundries of the relationship, then is not like he cheated or something like that.
He is the one with a problem, and he is the one looking to get better. Why it has to be about the woman? Why he need to tell her that? If he wants to keep it to himself is his choice..
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Semantics aside about what is and is not infidelity, you are purposely hiding something huge from her.
 
I bet half the people responding are not even married. They say never ask a Bible salesman if you need a Bible. I’ll just say I told my wife and it helped. We fail to realize how strong some women are. Discern if it’s your ego telling you not to tell her or you don’t want to loose her. Either way stop watching porn and that should be a helpful start.
 
p1n1983 said:
Is not wrong, is another point of view that don't match yours. The fact that don't match yours, don't make it wrong.
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If we’re talking specifically about not telling his wife about his addiction to pornography or his sexuality, I think any counselor/therapist/psychologist would say that’s the wrong decision.
 
RiverBlue said:
I'm not sure this is an issue of consent either. Does your husband have to consent to everything you do?
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I think this is a little different use of the term consent, and I think I get what Lilla_My is getting at. For a lot of us, entering into a sexual union in the marriage bed is complex. It's not just about consenting to a sexual activity in the moment, but also agreeing on the entire sexual activity of the marriage. What acts are ok? Is solo sexual expression allowed? It encompasses what each spouse needs in order to enter into this sexual union. What each spouse needs to be able to give to their partner sexually. Because true sexual intimacy is more about giving to each other and enjoying each other rather than taking and self-gratification.

So I never consented to my husband using porn. It was never ok with me. So I also feel betrayed that he chose to bring something into the sexual sphere of our marriage without my consent. I didn't know about it, I was not ok with it, and it effected our sexual relationship. His desire for me then compared with it now that porn is gone is night and day. He could not see how it made it all worse. And now we're dealing with the fallout of how I feel about myself now that I know it was there. I'm struggling to feel like I can be vulnerable, and this is a big thing for many women during sexual intimacy. If we don't feel safe to be vulnerable we won't relax and it is all downhill. I know you want to spare her the pain. There are a lot of days where I wish I was not feeling this way. But if our sex life had continued how it was, with him so muted, I don't know. I would not ever gain real intimacy. It is so hard, we all understand why this is so complicated to decide. In my marriage now, we are in the process of spelling it all out. No ambiguity. And we've agreed, consented, to a sexual union where there is nothing sexual outside of each other. We now consent that the marriage we want keeps our sexual gifts for each other only.
 
used19 said:
When secrets are present, intimacy is absent.
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Good line. I was honest with my girlfriend from early on that I had previously struggled with porn addiction. I remained porn free through our relationship. But after a while I started getting really sick feelings in the pit of my stomach sometimes, and the way she looked at me just made me feel weird. It was like I was getting glimpses of something that was hiding beneath the surface. Anyway, some things happened, the straw broke the camel's back, and she finally told me (after being confronted) about multiple things she had lied about. I stayed with her several months after that, but I wanted her to be super honest about things with me, (which she promised she would) and yet she couldn't manage to tell me the truth about small things. Who knows what she was struggling with inside, but it just wasn't healthy for me. She never physically cheated on me so far as I know, but it felt about just as devastating. Horrible feelings. After I broke up with her, I ended up going back to porn...biggg mistake. It's crazy how much pain and suffering can be indirectly caused by dishonesty and secrets.

I hope the next girl I find is truthful with herself and with me.
 
RiverBlue said:
I started this thread do get advice, not with the intention of trolling anyone. I really am taking in everything everyone is saying and weighing it carefully against my beliefs and my situation. I want to thank everyone for posting so honestly, if I haven't done that before. And I admit the ability to change my mind with different information and with different experiences. Thanks
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If you do decide to tell your wife, whether it is in the presence of a therapist or not, I would strongly recommend that you do it without trying to minimize it, and without trying to make excuses. And simultaneously, it's important to make sure that your wife knows that this problem is something that goes beyond her, even if it's hard to understand. You don't watch porn because your wife isn't enough for you, your addiction exists despite your wife.

Telling your wife is like cutting a cord that ties your lies to yourself. It forces you to trust that your wife is your wife for a reason. When people make little mistakes, they say, "oops." But when people make big mistakes, they hide them so that they are protected from feeling shame from others—they already feel shame enough from themselves. Being a man sometimes means you bare yourself to the world and the repercussions that it might have.

I guess something important to ask yourself might be: "Will I feel a tinge of guilt for the rest of my life that I haven't been honest with my wife? Will I always feel guilty that when she asks 'what did you do yesterday afternoon' that I replied 'Watched some TV' when I did watch TV, but I also spent an hour jerking off to another person?"
 
RiverBlue said:
He would see it as a sin. I'm not perfect. I'm not claiming to be. Far from it. Part of the reason I am here and want to stop.

But I don't see it as the sin of adultery, which some here I think do. We could get into a theological discussion over whether that's a true interpretation of scripture or not, but I'm comfortable with it and that I am in alignment with the position of my church on this. So, going further, I don't see it as a breach of my marriage vow. Others I understand, in their own situations, see it as that, and I respect that for them.
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If your wife sees it as adultery, then it is. You are splitting hairs to justify that you 'aren't that bad.' Betrayal is betrayal regardless of how it manifests itself.

Here is some light reading for you.

Yes, Using Porn Is Cheating. Here's Why. (covenanteyes.com)
Is Porn Cheating? Defining Infidelity in the Digital Age. (psychcentral.com)
Is Internet Pornography Cheating? | Dr. Phil
Is Looking at Porn the Same as Cheating? - The Christian Post
 
Always look at it if the shoe was on the other foot how would you feel if your wife was in another room masturbating to pictures of naked men instead of being with you and giving her sexual energy to you.
 
we-can_do-this said:
I think any counselor/therapist/psychologist would say that’s the wrong decision.
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I agree with you. But counselor/therapist/psychologist are specialist in other area, they are not specialist in attaction between man and woman. They can really help you with your goals and struggles in life but relationship between man and woman is a totally diferent chapter in life and, I guessing here, but I´m preatty confident that the interaction between man and woman is not something that is teach in the university.
 
RiverBlue said:
I don't agree with this. If my wife thought my p*nis was the size of a horse's, I'd be flattered, but sadly it wouldn't make it true.
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I can only imagine this conversation:

wife: In my mind, sexualized chatting with other women online or in person is cheating
husband: I'm sorry, but you're simply wrong
wife: I'm honestly telling you how I feel and my emotions, I can't be wrong in that
husband: I've declared you wrong, time to get over it, it's not cheating because I say so
wife: that's not how this works, that's not how emotions work, that's not how any of this works
husband: in my mind it's not cheating, that's all that matters, now make me some dinner
 
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@Trobone I never said the wife wouldn't be upset. I was only responding to your statement that if she thought it was "adultery" then it was "adultery." Could she be upset? Might she be right to be upset? Sure. But that's a whole other discussion. It still doesn't make it adultery, just cause she thinks it is.
 
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