Jagliana's Journal | An S.O's perspective

DAY 93:

DAILY GOALS MET:

• My husband has been honest with me about his urges/triggers/ogling...
• Verbalize my feelings, triggers or frustrations to my husband.
• Work on my healing, triggers, betrayal trauma.
  
• Daily talk with my husband.

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Last night, he asked me an interesting question: "So, you've accepted my offer to put the wedding rings back on, as a promise rings and you've forgiven my actions, for my full disclosure - does that mean, that your 3-year plan has changed?". For those who haven't been following my journal, what he is referring to is, before he began this recovery - I told him, we were over. I said that we would live together for 3 years, pretend to be married for our girls/family until our eldest made it into high school - as I didn't want a divorce to affect her grades. As soon as she made it into a school, we'd make a formal announcement and go our separate ways. Of course, this was before he decided, for the first time ever, to actually make a change and go through with a recovery. Now, I've been conflicted... my heart and mind are at odds. About a week or two into his recovery, I asked him "do you think you'll be able to make me a promise, that you'll be able, to be honest with me from now on?" he said "I don't know and I don't want to make any promises now, I'd like to revisit this question in a year, so I can give you a more clear answer", which I thought was fair. So, I said, well, unfortunately - as much as I would PREFER to change my trajectory (3-year plan) and keep our marriage, as it has been going right now, because to me - it is exactly what I always wanted it to be, I just don't know if it's something I can or should do. Until he can give me a better idea, where he stands, I can't give him a better or more clear answer either. So, when we revisit his recovery goals on Jan 29th, 2019, he will (hopefully) be able, to let me know how sure he is, that he will [or will not] be able to continue to remain honest with me. So, technically, the next move - is his.

Today, we took a walk, there were a few "threats" here and there, he controlled himself pretty well from ogling, he noticed people would have ogled before but averted his eyes now that he is aware of his problem. We got home, had breakfast out on the balcony, it was nice, quiet and peaceful. Then we picked up our older daughter from school, we stopped by the supermarket. A funny thing happened, three male employees were ogling me, they weren't being discreet at all, my hubby was at the register and I was at the end of the counter. One of them walked away towards the customer service desk all while making remarks, another one was 'ogling out loud' to his buddy and I thought that was it. When my husband walked up to me, he goes "did you just hear that?" I said "What?! shh" and pointed at our daughter. Apparently, they didn't care that my husband was RIGHT there lol, they continued ogling out loud, even he heard them. Some guys have some nerve.

Anyway, it was time to go get our little one from daycare... from our old neighborhood. We take her there because 1) it's more affordable than where we live now and 2) the teachers are wonderful and we love them. I was triggered, pretty bad, more then I'd like to admit. Why? well, our old neighborhood's female population consists of primarily my husbands ogling physical type, his *gold standard* if you will, of his ideal "drool factor" body types, the ones I constantly kept watching him glare at and then telling myself "yep, I can never compete with her, or her, or her, or that ass, or those hips or those tits, not that body, don't look like her either, her face is prettier, that's nothing like me, that's what he prefers but is stuck with this [me]" and because of his behavior over the past 12 years, I've been left me with years of severe PTSD and this, our old neighborhood - was one of the prime locations that caused this massive hits to my self-esteem. We've been driving here for some time now, but today it was 89 degrees, so they were all out in their skin-tight, barely there, on the prowl outfits. Granted, he did notice exactly who triggered me, because we were able to describe the same people, but he says he noticed and looked away to avoid ogling. That doesn't change the fact that my PTSD kicked into high gear and my mood was shot. I can't help that the minute I noticed them, I knew he did too and maybe he controlled his urge to ogle and didn't slip, I knew that a mere three months ago he would have ogled them and that's a 150% guarantee. It wasn't just one woman either, so I could control the trigger and breathe in and out, it was kind of like getting shot multiple times in a row, so it became overwhelming and I lost control. I guess that's what PTSD is. All I kept thinking, as soon as we drove the fuck out of that neighborhood was... I still can not compare to those type women, never can, never will - no matter what I do. My body can never compare to their bodies and those are the bodies he is sexually attracted to and no matter what he tells me now, and he can tell it until he is blue in the face - the women he notices [whether he ogles or not] and has to fight to avoid looking at, those are the ones he really wants, on a sexual/physical level. It may not sound pretty, but that's the cold, hard truth of the matter. This is also what I'm scared of (triggers/ptsd) and why I am having such a difficult time deciding on what to do about this cruise vacation.

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Mini project for the hubby and I - that we will be sharing in our NoFap journals.
A Seven-Week Course In Fondness And Admiration
___ Week II - Wednesday (5/02)
Thought: We have common goals. Done.
We do. We have a lot of common interests, beliefs and of course goals, that is why we get along so well, generally speaking.
Task: List one such goal.
>> Neither of us are Religous
I think one of our main goals, is it make sure we provide the best future possible for our two girls. That every opportunity available is provided to them and we can make it happen to the best of our abilities as parents.
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DAY 94:

DAILY GOALS MET:

• My husband has been honest with me about his urges/triggers/ogling...
• Verbalize my feelings, triggers or frustrations to my husband.
• Work on my healing, triggers, betrayal trauma.
  
• Daily talk with my husband.

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Last night, we spent the majority of the time discussing my massive trigger from earlier in the day - it was a rough one for me. It wasn't like the other ones (minor ones that are much more manageable/controllable) I guess that's because when we are out and about locally or at the mall etc., those triggers aren't as 'in your face'/nonstop). Our old neighborhood though, with this nice weather - hmm, what occurred could be best described as ... getting shot at from multiple angles, without pause - like, bam, bam, bam. He noticed 'the threats' of course, I did too, he averted his eyes (which was awesome) - but even though he did the right thing and his actions didn't trigger me, the flashbacks of 'what use to happen' were hitting me - left and right, there were so many of them, it became really overwhelming for me. My brain went haywire and started short-circuiting and with every notice that *I* had, *I* immediately began thinking about how I could never match up to these women, that he always preferred looking at - when he was out with me. How he must hate being stuck with me. Then I was comparing body parts, shapes, sizes etc., just like I use to do all those times before. It's depressing, I know, trust me if I could stop thinking about it I would love to.

I mean, I guess I just have to accept the fact, that -- in my mind, through my perspective -- I will probably never see him looking at me, the way that I've seen him looking at them, what's been embedded in my brain over the last 12 years. I've never caught him going out of his way to sneak a peek at me, the way he has jumped through hoops to sneak a peek at them, even though he always assumed he was being 'discreet' *sigh. I guess that's just something I have to live with. Some might wonder, why would I even consider staying if this is the case ... well, because right now [so far] I have this newfound raw, vulnerable, honest love, deep emotional connection, and intimacy with him - something neither of us has ever had or experienced before. Which at the end of the day, I think those positives outweigh the negative. My only concern is, I don't know if it's enough to keep him off PM, you know? and that worries me for the future. Men are visual creatures, so...

Today we went to the zoo with the little one, it was really hot (finally!) and super crowded, but she still had a good time. It was a nice family day overall.

Later in the day when we took our walk today, we did talk about all of this and he kept telling me that even during his PA/ogling high, I am his physical type. That if I wasn't his wife and I would be passing him by on the street he would rubberneck me. He wishes I could see that. He says that now when the porn fog was removed and with the addition of our love/intimacy and connection - everything is even more amplified and he see's it all so much clearer and he thinks I am beautiful etc., but I told him - it's just very difficult for me to believe, after 12 years of watching him, watch other women, while out ... with me.

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Mini project for the hubby and I - that we will be sharing in our NoFap journals.
A Seven-Week Course In Fondness And Admiration
___ Week II - Thursday (5/03)
Thought: My partner is my best friend. Done.
He is. Always has been, with and without his addiction, that part never changed. Just with recovery, our connection, closeness, and intimacy are just so much deeper, better and more intense.
Task: What secret about you does your spouse know?
>> There are now a few...
None of which I will divulge on here lol sorry!
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Thank you

 

DAY 95:

DAILY GOALS MET:

• My husband has been honest with me about his urges/triggers/ogling...
• Verbalize my feelings, triggers or frustrations to my husband.
• Work on my healing, triggers, betrayal trauma.
  
• Daily talk with my husband.

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Last night, we talked some more about my trigger and how I hate having it and sort of feel like we are beating a dead horse when I bring it up to him. I feel guilty at the way it affects me because I see he is trying to be different now and I'm scared by me telling him the details of my trigger/pain - it could cause him to get upset or regress. Overall, I have been getting much better at controlling my triggers - however, that location, with so many women (threats/notices) it just got me flustered. It was overwhelming and made this trigger uncontrollable and I guess that was what broke me.

I also explained to him, how I literally saw [witnessed], without exaggeration - how his pupils changed/ his eyes would lit up when ogling other women and it ["the look"] looks very different than how he has ever looked at me, in 12 years. That is why I don't think I will ever feel like I am who he actually desires physically. Even now, with this intense emotional connection, honesty, intimacy, love that we share - I just don't see it, that look. I did see it at UNO's, back in March, when he was ogling the woman passing by (the day when he finally decided to take control of his ogling issues)... but overall, I don't think he desires me, not like that. And as much as I try to get him to really figure it out/be honest about it, I don't think he will admit it (to me or himself). Sometimes I even think he is trying to convince himself of something that just is not there for him. YES, the love, emotions etc is there and even the passion and that might be making me a lot more appealing to him - but in all, I think the women he had eyes for, actual lust, temptation, fighting to sneak a peek at - those are the ones he actually desired sexually and me? I'm just what he already had at home. Like I said in the beginning, I hate sounding like I am beating a dead horse with this, but the truth is, the pathetic truth I might add btw, is that I actually have gotten "that look" from various men throughout these years, and none of them have been my husband, sadly. I don't think this is something that can be fixed, however, it is not the most important part of a marriage, at least not anymore - not when you have a connection, love, intimacy, honesty -- because like it or not, we are all going to get old, so beauty fades anyway. I just don't know if it's enough for him?

Don't get me wrong, I haven't felt so wanted by him in over a decade, but like I mentioned before that's all because of this newfound connection/intimacy between us, actually physically attraction is another thing - in my opinion.

This is why this whole recovery has been the most complicated and confusing period, in my adult life. It seems like right now, everything else between us is going so right, but I just can not picture him, finding me - beautiful.

On a brighter note: We did spend a nice day together at Dave & Buster's, no one was there. Kids were at school. We had the whole place to ourselves and played zombie shooters, Mario Kart and just had fun like we were kids again lol. A well-deserved break from it all.

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Mini project for the hubby and I - that we will be sharing in our NoFap journals.
A Seven-Week Course In Fondness And Admiration
___ Week II - Friday (5/04)
Thought: I get lots of support in this relationship. Done.
He is. Always
Task: Think of a time when your spouse was very supportive of you.
>> When I got laid off...
I kind of knew it was coming, but none-the-less, it was so sad for me, to lose income and such a prestigious title/job, but he told me - not to worry, everything will be okay, we got this.
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Of course not, but watching his eyes light up to other women, not to me - that's what burnt out any fire burning within me, you know?

 

DAY 96:

DAILY GOALS MET:

• My husband has been honest with me about his urges/triggers/ogling...
• Verbalize my feelings, triggers or frustrations to my husband.
• Work on my healing, triggers, betrayal trauma.
  
• Daily talk with my husband.

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Last night, we talked about my journal post from yesterday (aka my trigger) yes yes, still on that. He wanted to, not me. He thinks it's better to get it out, and I guess he is right - I just feel like, it's really like beating a dead horse. Then he gave me a really nice full body massage, that really helped my mood lol after there were some other perks he gave me, made the night super special for me.

Today, I am feeling better (mentally) even with random thoughts jumbling in and outta my head. Physically though, I'm under the weather/getting a cold - which sucks because the weather is finally getting nice, ugh.

We went for a walk, we didn't talk though because he decided to run and I walked. I'm top heavy so, running for me - well, kind of hurts and doesn't feel comfortable - plus I'm getting a cold, so I'm congested at the moment too. Maybe at some point, I'll try to find a good way to strap them in and try running or jogging. Then we decided to load up the family and take them to the indoor playground, to tire them out a little. A few threats here and there at the mall, no triggers for me there though. Got home, thought the kids would be tired, but HAAAA yea right, who were we kidding!

Tonight is the hubby's last night home before he goes back to work - that withdrawal is going to suck (again). Having an influx of him/his attention (home for a full week) vs barely there again leaves me with a blah feeling these days.

 

DAY 97:

DAILY GOALS MET:

• My husband has been honest with me about his urges/triggers/ogling...
• Verbalize my feelings, triggers or frustrations to my husband.
• Work on my healing, triggers, betrayal trauma.
  
• Daily talk with my husband.

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Last night, we talked some more. I explained to him, how important it is to me, that when we revisit our 'plans' on his one year anniversary of this recovery that I need him to be completely honest with me, on where he is on both the lying front (confidence about it) as well as everything else (getting bored with me/needing more aka >> PM). He told me he feels his confidence growing with every new day about staying honest with me and he thinks if he can stop M for good, maybe only in a controlled environment (foreplay in bed, obviously much later in recovery) that he won't risk falling back into the PM trap ever again. He says, that now that he has felt the immense pleasure that this newfound love, intimacy, and connection have given him/us, he doesn't need or want anything else. I guess we'll see where we're at on Jan 29th, 2019. All I know is, for me - I'm getting too tired and too old for any more games, I'm definitely done with d-day cycles. I am ready for something REAL, I want to be happy - while I'm still young enough to enjoy it, I don't want any more pain, stress or lies... no more.

On another front, I've been dealing another major struggle, something I've been thinking about a lot these days and especially today, as I had another minor trigger earlier in the day. I've been bringing it up to him the last few nights of talks... It's a question mainly for him (and well for myself too I guess) "Do you find me physically attractive / sexually desirable / am I enough for you (not to eventually get bored and turn to P/ogling again)?" of course his quick response is: "Of course, I find you attractive and here's why _____ and with this recovery I see it more and more every day". But, I think, it may just be too late for me to believe him anymore; any answer, because actions speak louder than words and well, too much time has passed - too much damage already done over the years to my self-esteem related to him and how I see myself when he looks at me. Man, I think I've asked him this question, once, every day for the last week... because, during our long 12 years together, I've seriously, never noticed his eyes light up for me like they have for the girls he has ogled in front of me. My concern/issue is will I really be okay with moving forward in this marriage, with that doubt/question/fear constantly in the back of my mind? even if we are so wildly connected, in-love and experiencing all of these new feelings right now, for the last 3 months. Because unfortunately, I fear... I may never get to a place where I could believe I'm his "type" or beautiful enough for him (if you take away the added appeal of this newfound connection) - I guess these 12 years of damage may really be irreparable, that really scares me, because I'm not at an age to "test another decade out and see how it goes".

In my mind, this is the riddle I keep trying to solve, when we got together we were [seemed] passionate, 'active' and even after getting married I was always open and willing, we never had issues in the bedroom but his PA escalated anyway, his ogling got much worse, I was thrown on the sidelines [left ignored, unwanted, no attention, undesired], even in the beginning when things were seeminly still fresh - I guess was just not hot enough, interesting enough or whatever to keep his interest and that was at my physical peak, so what the hell can I expect now? you know what I'm saying??? how can I ever believe anything else? That is the question I am facing... do I want to live with that? CAN I live with that? I just don't know, and yes I do realize how vain it sounds, trust me, but I think everyone wants their partner to find them attractive/beautiful, right?

That's a question I will have to answer too, and honestly at that, to both myself and him, when we revisit in January because I don't want to play games with him either. I love him to death, especially right now, more than ever, I actually enjoy his touch, kisses, attention and I can't even explain the kind of feelings we are having these days with words, but how I feel about this issue in particular is really eating away at me and getting in the way of all of those other good feelings. Thing is, I get that this whole thing is an addiction and I am fighting right alongside with him to beat it but, I'm still a woman who has needs and I want to be with someone, who when I'm with them, I know for a FACT, 110%, in my mind/heart, without a shadow of a doubt that I am the one they want on all levels: physically, sexually, emotionally, mentally - ALL OF ME and only me, always. When that man is with me, I'm the only one they notice and everyone else is just a blur and don't matter. Yes, you read that right, I want to be with someone who has made me feel so freaking good, beautiful, desired, wanted, that we could be sitting in the middle of a Victoria Secrets fashion show, but I know, that to him - he only has eyes for me. Unfortunately, even with recovery and him now being aware / in control of his ogling, I don't think this will ever or could ever be a reality with my husband, not with our decades-long history of severe ogling, PM, ignoring me and worst of all cheating; I ended up marrying a man I thought would be different, but turned out to be just like everyone else. So, what I need to figure out is if I could live with that constant doubt for the rest of my life if at least everything else remains on the up and up.

Another frustrating thing is, when I am one on one with him, my mind seems to be calmer because we talk or are busy - but when I have some time to myself, to think, especially alongside a trigger - the wheels keep turning and turning. It's scary how easy it is to be so conflicted and confused about something, that shouldn't be so difficult to make sense of. Thing is, I didn't choose this life, it was thrust upon me. This kind of life is forever, long-haul, he will always in recovery and that's something I have to be willing to be apart of, should I decide to stay with him and if what we have had these last 3 months lasts from now till forever, yea that fight would be worth it, but if it doesn't and he goes back to lying again?... and I have to deal with all that again, plus constantly feeling ugly to him... I just don't know. I wish I had a crystal ball with all the answers because this shit is frustrating as hell.

 

Maybe it is a different type of look, maybe not. Thing is - I wouldn't know the difference because after we got married, quite soon after I might add, I was pretty much discarded like an old rag. What I mean is, I was ignored as a woman almost completely (other than for sex) for 12 years straight, with the occasional romantic gesture after I nagged the shit out of him. So, the only look I know of is that one. I've only seen his eyes sparkle like that, for every woman but me. When he would look at me, it seemed hallow and I get it because, by the time I was finally done, any fire I had was burnt out too - which was sad because I always wanted him with every fiber in my body. So now, when he looks at me, yes it's different but I have nothing to compare it to and I don't know if it's done merely out of his remorse/guilt of the last 12 years, it's only been 3 months after all.

It is really difficult to explain. I've had other men look at me, the way he has looked at other women and not all of them were just ogling me, some actually were interested in being with me (dating/relationship).

 

I know you weren't you were only stating your opinion on the matter.

I agree and it is really difficult/complicated trying to make sense of it all and being able to decipher between "the lines". I'm taking his current actions at face value, he has been doing things he has never attempted to do before and meeting his goals/challenges. I'm very proud of where he is and of course, I want him to continue on this path.

Ah, I see, for us it was a bit different, I was always willing and interested in sex and we did do it whenever, but that didn't stop him from escalating deeper into this addiction and the deeper he dived the further and further he pushed me away, only coming to me for sex and to watch tv shows. Not much else. What we are experiencing now is on a whole different level, neither of us thought it was possible and it feels wonderful, remarkable really - however... that being said, as I've never given him a reason to doubt my attraction to him (physically) -- even with this intense/new emotional connection, I have big doubts about how genuine his physical attraction is to me and if it can keep him interested enough, not to get "bored" and returned to PA down the line, that's one of my biggest fears. I have no more time to waste, as I think 12 years is more than enough time and I need to be happy, I want to be happy (completely).

Don't be sorry, you stated your peace and it made perfect sense. Thank you for empathizing, having to figure out such things is quite a difficult task, for all of us.

@phuck-porn! has your therapist guided you guys at all on this topic, any good 'professional' advice?

 

I get what you are saying and of course, no one expects the same type of infatuation and puppy eyes of the first dates, 15 years in but I was getting blank stares while watching him glaring at other women - so you know lol also, not cool.

I'm not expecting him to be all doe-eyed at me now, but I need to know that he is really attracted to me physically if you strip away everything else. If not, that scares me that at some point, when this newfound excitement/intimacy dwindles a bit, if the physical appeal is just "meh", he could potentially get bored and that could cause this PA crap to start all over again. He keeps telling me that he finds me hot, beautiful, sexy and I turn him on but for some reason, I just don't buy it - not yet at least, those 12 years vs these 3 months are budding heads, you know?

 

Yes, that's what I'm afraid of with therapists, them telling you, that YOU need to decide (it's true, but still) lol you need help and guidance, but they pretty much repeat your questions back to you, in prettier wording.

Was the therapist trained in PA/SA?

Thank you and I wish you the same, yes this shit is hard, too damn hard.