P.A.W.S. - what are they, cure, duration

This is a response to your post too @Brain Fog - I'm starting to get around to the realization of what you're talking about in emotional causes Mentorr. Maybe I wasn't able to visualize it in my mind, or articulate it to myself. When I kept relapsing, even off long streaks of 90+ days, I took a step back and was wondering what was going on. And this is the connection I made with dopamine detox. I had to get rid of the other non-pmo high-stimulus activities if I wanted long-term success in recovery. I came to the realization that I was trying to bury the underlying emotion of boredom, habitual distraction, and technological novelty to soothe my dopamine craving. I was feeding the beast of instant gratification. It's like you have two roads- one being pmo and the other non-pmo hyperstimulus actvities; both roads lead to the temporary satisfaction of the need of instant gratification. I found that pmo leads one's life into a myriad of quick distracting diversions but I also realized that these diversions increases the probability dramatically for one to relapse in pmo because both roads have the same root: instant gratification. Only when I went got rid of these vices (though not completely), I was able to experience the emotions (boredom, restlessness, etc.), that I was burying with things like tv, music, YT, etc. Now I sit in my room to pray, reflect, and read instead of popping my ear buds in and I've been able to be one with my emotions, even if they're bad, which is often because of paws. It's almost like I started to realign my life to what it's supposed to be and it's made abstinence much easier. But I hear what you referenced @Brain Fog with SleepisLost post of his 150 day recovery, in where he felt healed in 150 days. I do question things about that though. It almost feels like he created a dopamine baseline for himself that would be higher than if one would've cut all those things out. The interesting experiment would be to see how he would do if he cut the rest of the things he was doing out- caffeine, tch, etc. To compare, users of pmo that "rewire" with sex with their wives seem to recover faster than the hardmode guys- not facts, just anecdotal. It makes sense though in a brain chemistry level- baselines would be different. So, Mentorr, you say you're three years in recovery? How far do you think you have to go? I saw you thought 4 years for your ≈20 years of addiction. And for you and @Brain Fog how do you view the relationship between other high-dopaminergic activities and pmo?

 

Yeah wet dreams are the body's way of taking care of itself, which negates the viewpoint of one having to masturbate to release- no, the body does that on it's own. And wet dreams are the least dopaminergic way of ejaculation. That's why you feel the way you feel after pmo (and sex in your case), you have the high of chemical release, then the dreaded crash that accompanies it afterward. And as you read on this forum, the long-term effects of pmo are absolutely detrimental. So yeah, wet dreams are harmless. In my wet dreams, I sometimes feel a euphoria if I wake up during. As for the after effects of a wet dream, I either experience low energy, or as you described, high energy. It just depends. Sometimes they exacerbate my paws, sometimes they don't. But all in all, wet dreams are harmless.

 

What you mention here demonstrates really good rebooting practices. I know more than anyone how crazy it sounds that it is our emotional life that puts us into PAWS, but after months of reading, researching, therapy and conversing with professionals, our emotional life is where the problem likely is for most of us.

3 important points to make:

We have to get out of the habit of comparing symptoms with one another. You and I could have PMO'd for 15 years, for the exact same reasons and have different symptoms. While symptoms can potentially give an idea of how deep (or shallow) your recovery is, they don't tell us how to recover. What we should be comparing are life circumstances and lifestyle. What are your addictions? How long have you been addicted? What causes you to go to your addiction? What emotions do you feel the most? How are you dealing with them? What patterns can we find between our life circumstances?

Noticing that rebooters who recover usually have a partner help them over line is something that I also noticed. Its something that I think is an important point in recovery. I am not saying that you need to have a partner to recover, however I do think it plays a key part in recovery. For example, I have felt my best after

A final outlandish statement from me that I cannot yet prove: cutting ourselves off from intimacy for too long very likely contributes to the onset of PAWS. I could be wrong, but I think in our quest to abstain and stay away from PMO we actually shut down (or block) our sexual function. Its the typical saying of "use it or lose it". Just a speculation.

I think me recovering totally comes down to 1 of 3 things if not all 3:

1. Quitting Social Media for good
2. Resolving emotional issues
3. Restarting libido via intimacy

These are the only things that I can see stopping me from recovering fully (if not just time and patience). Dealing with 2 would essentially resolve 1 and likely open me up more to 3. Have I improved throughout recovery? Yes absolutely. But for me I have hit a point where I'm not sure that waiting this thing out will work. It should, and based on what others have said I should be fine with time, but I don't think it hurts to be proactive and resolve any other issues that could essentially get in the way of full healing.

 

Female magnetism is very much real. When I started my recovery I barely received any attention from women, I just kept myself to myself. As of today, even though I have not fully healed, I find myself receiving looks or even being approached by women regularly. I also found old flames would reach out - coincidence? maybe.

By Orgasm I mean sex and masturbation. I have had sex maybe 4-5 times in the past 44 months and it has mostly been pretty bad, although I haven't attempted sex in quite some time, maybe 7+ months. In terms of masturbation I haven't M'd since I first started recovery, so 44 months and likely won't again.

 

Hey, sounds like youve made a lot of progress dude. Sometimes its hard to remember how far we have come. Good luck in your journey, hope you feel even better in 12 months.

 

I just had another one last night! 2 in 2 days. Sometimes its common for me to have a few in a short time span then none for a while. Most of the time my wet dreams aren't even sexual in nature so i usually put it down to high stress. Ive been having a pretty tough time pretty much for a month now.

I also get morning wood pretty consistently but that doesn't seem to impact symptoms at all.

I trust your reboot is still going strong?

 

Still going strong mate and it will until im healed. Still of course having a pretty bad time, mostly with anxiety which seems to be my biggest symptom. Social anxiety. I have planned to try and do some exposure therapy, gain some confidence etc. I feel like i need to do some work alongside my reboot.

 

Тhanks bro!

 

Do you have fatigue? like you feel exhausted all the time?

 

This is one of my biggest symptoms also. Exposure doesnt help at all for me as im pretty much social all the time. The only reason i go out it because i force myself to. Id much rather be isolated until this is over.

 

Do you know something about the influence of line flows on the appearance itself? On the face? It feels like getting into the phases of a flat line makes me uglier . But coming out of them again I look a little better.

 

Yes I noticed this also. When in the flatline there are a number of physiological changes that take place, and when we step out of the flatline these changes seem to disappear. I wrote a post recently about the flatline and what I "think" is happening to our nervous system when we enter it - i'll try to summarise it here to explain.

The flatline (in my opinion) is essentially a shift that takes place in our nervous system. The nervous system has 3 modes of functioning which support our survival as human beings. These modes of functioning are known as:

1. Social Engagement (green)
2. Fight or Flight (yellow)
3. Shutdown (red)

Looking at the image above, Social Engagement (Green) is where we want to be. This is (normally) our default mode of functioning. Social Engagement is the function which promotes well-being. It manages our blood circulation, our ability to relate to others, it allows us to live healthily and remain open to connection.

When we begin our reboot and enter the flatline, we essentially move from Social Engagement to Fight-Flight. From Green to Yellow. The function of Fight-Flight is the physiological reaction that (usually) occurs when we feel threatened or attacked even. Our nervous system believes that we are in danger and switches from Social Engagement to Fight-Flight.

The key to understanding these shifts is recognising that the objective of the nervous system is to survive. To maximise the chance of survival, the nervous system allocates resources to specific physiological functions. For example, if a man wielding and axe was to smash through your bedroom window right now, and run towards you with killing intent, you would undoubtedly move into Fight-Flight. Your blood flow would increase, adrenaline would be released and oxygen would be sent to all of your vital organs almost immediately. You would then likely do one of two things: fight or flee. In short we tell the body "I am in the trouble" and the body reacts by sending troops to the front gate in the form of physiological support.

To answer the question of why we become 'ugly' during the flatline likely comes down to our biological resources being syphoned off for other requirements. If the flatline does equate to being stuck in Fight-Flight or even Freeze, the nervous system becomes focused on the inner workings of the body, at the cost of our physical appearance.

Knowing the above, the question becomes; why do we move into Fight-Flight/Freeze after sex? A question for another post maybe.

As I mentioned at the start of this post, a lot of what is being said here comes down to my own speculation. However I do think that this theory effectively illustrates some of the things being experienced during recovery.

 

No i dont have problems with that. However i dont feel energetic either

 

By the way, from the moment when I got into a reboot for a long time, I started having panic attacks, shortness of breath, a feeling as if oxygen was not going to the brain. Other vegetative things. Did you have that too? Now I can't do much of what I was doing before the reboot. I was tormented by panic attacks, it seems to me that I will lose consciousness and pass out, or some vessel will burst inside me.

 

I haven't experienced any of these symptoms while rebooting, but I would look at your recovery/lifestyle as a whole and see if you cant determine why you experience panic attacks and a lack of oxygen rather than migraines for example. Your biggest clue should be the scenario in which you experience the symptoms. What is happening in the moment when the panic attack takes place?

Are the symptoms sporadic or consistent with a particular event? The idea is to find context behind the symptoms so that you can understand/resolve them. PMO withdrawal (if we call it that) is likely not the direct cause of your panic attacks, rather your 'compromised' nervous system could be making you more susceptible to the panic attack in the moment

 

Panic attacks also occur when I even stumble upon erotic images. I somehow turned on porn after a long break and experienced an attack

 

I honestly think this is what I've been going through. I said on another thread that I just went into therapy because I've been having the worst Anxiety and depression of my life. It makes sense because when we masturbate to porn we become addicted to the rush of dopamine. It becomes an internal drug problem and we withdraw from it. I gave up porn cold turkey in October. Really haven't had any desire to go back to it after I learned how much it damaged me. Still masturbate from time to time when my anxiety is at its highest. Other than that only sex with my fiancé and it's usually great. But I've been hooked on porn since my early 20s and I'm 39 now. I suppose it might take a long time before my brain and body gets back to the way it's supposed to be.

 

Ginko Biloba is supposed to be good for that.

 

Imagine (for example) that there is an 8 year old boy alone in his room. Bored out of his mind he decides to start casually browsing the internet for erotic photos. Unbeknownst to him, his mum hasn't left for work as he believes and suddenly bursts into his room, catching him red handed staring at the most erotic images known to man. She proceeds to scold him before notifying the rest of the family about what she believes to be her sons greatest transgression.

At this point, the primitive part of the young boys brain senses danger and kicks into action by increasing blood flow, releasing adrenaline and unleashing cortisol. Once all is said and done the reptilian part of the brain says "I have just saved your life from a life-threatening event, I'll remember this scenario forever in case it happens again!". From this point forward, the primitive part of his brain watches very carefully for any similar signals that suggests that the young boy is in this situation again. Erotic scene while on an intimate date? Panic attack. Erotic clip sent over by friends? Panic attack. Do you see the pattern? The panic attack becomes a defensive coping mechanism courtesy of the primitive brain.

If a panic attack occurs whenever you view erotic imagery, you may want to look for any beliefs you hold behind the viewing of erotic images. What is 'dangerous' to you around viewing erotic images? Is there an unconscious fear that it will destroy your streak? Do you feel shame when you view them? Really pick a part what you believe could be pushing you into the fight-flight response.

The most important thing here is to realise that there is absolutely nothing wrong with you. Absolutely nothing at all. You are not actively creating these panic attacks and you certainly do not have to listen to the anxious thoughts that come with each attack. Deep down you know there is no real danger in viewing erotic images. You are not defective and you are not broken in any way shape or form. Most of all; you can recover completely from this just like many others who already have.

While I am not an expert here I would suggest speaking to someone or even confiding in someone about how you feel. It doesn't have to be a professional, it could be a friend or even someone from this forum. However my advice would be to consider speaking on these feelings/beliefs as to discover the real cause of the p.attacks.

Hope this helps in some kind of way.