TooMuchTooSoon - A Partner's Journal

Discussion in 'Significant Other Journals' started by TooMuchTooSoon, Jan 29, 2017.

  1. WhoIsThisPerson

    WhoIsThisPerson Fapstronaut

    Please do let us know if you ask him this... I have thought about it many times. My only concern is, so early on in his reboot (well halfway to 90 days), he still seems so "out of it." And he has told me numerous times that he feels confused and numb (probably because his REAL drug of choice is distraction-- Youtube videos, etc. so how much time has he spent actually THINKING about this)... so what if the response is just "I dunno." Or worse yet... "you can go, I'm not good enough for you," and defensiveness, self-deprecation, etc.

    I think if you asked it in the right way under the right circumstances you may find a real answer. Or you may even ask about it and have him think on it then get back to you in a day or two. Sometimes I find my SO responds better when I sent an "appointment" to talk about something, then I give him time to think it over before responding. Still... when it comes to WHY he thinks I should stay... I feel like he would just put that back on me like, "Well that's your decision..." I do wonder what they think though...
    LizzyBlanca and TooMuchTooSoon like this.
  2. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    Thanks for all the input. I have been putting off the next TALK until he's done with a certification program that is kind of a big deal. I don't want to derail that so I'm willing to hold off a bit longer. It ends later this month so I can initiate a conversation by the beginning of May most likely. That will also give me time to organize my thoughts and make a bit of a plan. If I get emotional, all my logical points and reason can go out the window so having it all thought out will help with a more rational experience which I think he responds to much better, as I think most men do. I'm not looking forward to it. I think he'll be able to sense my frustration and downright fatigue in dealing with this. I know he doesn't want our whole relationship, our life together to revolve around this issue and I feel the same, but I also can't just stop being upset, unhappy, and unfulfilled.

    I get so disheartened reading on other message boards how women are dealing with what is almost certainly PA or SA but they get lectured for being anti-porn or anti-sex and how it's all normal and healthy. We're in an age when even healthy eating/exercise can be done to the point of disorder not to mention all the stuff that's quasi-ok but gets abused. Bottom line: if it's hurting yourself or others (like your relationship) IT'S NOT HEALTHY!!!
    Bel and i_wanna_get_better1 like this.
  3. ItsNeverTooLate

    ItsNeverTooLate Fapstronaut

    My SO asked that I please not go. He said I had every right to and he wouldn't blame me, but that he knew he could change. P wasn't worth losing me. I said his actions led me to think he was just saying the words and that he likely didn't mean it. He said he'd drive me to wherever I wanted to be and change jobs so that he could be near me to prove he was changing. I said that's fine, but don't expect me to not divorce you and move on. He said he was okay with that. As long as I was single he'd keep trying to win me back. If I remarried or asked him not to follow me, he'd back off. I honestly scoffed and said whatever. In that moment I believed he'd say anything to prevent me from leaving him. Then, he called my mom and confessed his addiction to her. That's when I knew he was telling the truth. I was very close to moving back to my hometown, just so I could be near family and friends for emotional support. My SO even offered to drive me. I figured I can give him a chance as long as his actions reflected his words.
  4. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    The flashbacks are getting to me today. Not to discovery/disclosure: catching him in the act, or finding his porn or anything like that. Because I never really had to deal with most of that, thankfully. For whatever reason, I am remembering all the unintentionally awful, horrible, confidence-shattering things he's said to me. From straight up telling me of his masturbation habits after becoming horny from _____ (not me) to the careless throwaway comments that cut like razor blades. Like, seriously, how can you possibly think it's ok to say that to anyone, let alone someone with whom you're in a supposedly loving relationship. Some have deeply wounded me. I don't know how I put these in the back of my mind most of the time. How do we do that? I do know that if they were always at the forefront there's no way I could stay. Could any of us, with the hurt constantly coloring our feelings and perceptions? But after laying dormant for however long, suddenly they come flooding out and I have to hope he's not around because I might lash out. I know it's not rational to suddenly turn, burst into tears and start screaming at him for dozens of tiny things that have added up to my devastation. So I weather the storm as best I can, but I worry that these words and my visualizations will forever haunt me and our relationship.

    Sometimes I find I want to hurt him, just to see if that will wake him up to my suffering. I've M'd a few times, I'm not proud of it, in retaliation after his admissions of Ming or when I felt our sexual encounters have suffered because of this issue. I'm almost glad of it because it reaffirmed how lousy I feel afterward, and how pathetic. It emphasized how it detaches me from him and our connection. Sexual energy is definitely finite within any given time period and not directing it toward the relationship really feels selfish. I don't want to be that way. I don't want him to be that way. I want him to not want to be that way most of all.

    So, onward. For both of us. Hopefully upward.
  5. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    My heart is breaking today. I will update later on my own situation but after speaking with a coworker friend today I heard something so sad and tragic, really. He was on a field trip with some 1st/2nd graders who, aside from swearing up a storm, apparently spent a good deal of time verbally dissecting female bodies. He confronted them a bit, he was so surprised/horrified, and they had no remorse. I wonder if they even knew lol what they were saying. These are 7 year olds! What is this world coming to?! :(
  6. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    *all what they were saying. NOT lol.
  7. LizzyBlanca

    LizzyBlanca Fapstronaut

    This gives an *opportunity* for a thoughtful response, though you never really know if it will be thoughtful or helpful.

    This is their opportunity to sell themselves to us, just like when people date. Their self-esteem has taken a huge hit, along with ours. So, that's a tough one. Hmmm.

    Seriously. My hub is a bit over a year "out" and just 2 months ago he said he only disclosed to me to hurt me. Actually, that's not 100% true. He just --- broke --- and everything came out in a very unsafe way. I don't honestly believe he meant that when he said it; he was lashing out. Deep breath.

    This is why they call it Betrayal Trauma. It's trauma, and i keep searching for add'l option to help me release the trauma from my body.

    My heart goes out to the children.

    Digital age. I'm glad my puppy/adolescent dog can't go on-line!
    TooMuchTooSoon likes this.
  8. Jaghorn

    Jaghorn Fapstronaut

    I don't really feel like I'm the most qualified person in this situation, but I just thought I'd just say that I also think it may be beneficial to have him read this journal. Just reading your posts I can see the emotional turmoil that you're going through and it's given me a better understanding of the cost should I fail to overcome this addiction. I don't even know you and you've managed to reaffirm for me that this is the right path, I can only imagine how powerful an effect it would have on someone who cares deeply for you and holds the power to free you from that suffering.

    Also, a quick question. Have you told him explicitly how you're feel in relation to him continuing to M? i.e. that it makes you feel inadequate and unwanted and also makes you feel like he's not taking his recovery seriously. If you've only alluded to it, even if in you're mind you've been very direct, it's possible that he's just be really bad at picking up those emotional hints.

    I don't know if that'll help at all but I hope you can take something from it.
  9. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    Thank you @Jaghorn for the support and encouragement. I always appreciate hearing "the other side" so to speak, especially from those of you who seem so committed to improving your lives and relationships. I am glad I can offer the other perspective in a relationship and illuminate how this addiction affects significant others.

    No, I haven't gone into full gory detail with him re: how much this is hurting me. However, I plan to change that next weekend. There are several topics we need to (re)visit, including PM, ASAP. We've talked about him moving in - really he all but decided he wanted to move in together AKA he wants to move in with me. I can't move forward with that while these issues are still open and unaddressed. Before I delve into how this all is making me feel, I want to unemotionally and rationally check in on each:

    1) Are you still P free? If not, how do you plan to proceed moving forward. If still P free, great. Are you planning to continue that forever? How? Do you worry about returning/relapsing? How will you address that?

    2) Have you continued Ming since last we talked? If not, what are your plans moving forward? If you have continued, what are you thinking about that? Do you think it's affecting our relationship? How so or why not?

    3) Are you having any trouble with PSubs: Reddit, FB, IG, etc.?

    4) How is going out in public compared to previously when you struggled to NOT look?

    If all the answers come out positive for him and for us, fantastic. I'll let him know how proud I am of him and how I've been feeling through all these unknowns but can move forward with such positive encouragement and the understanding that he'll keep being committed and honest and we can touch base as needed. However I do expect it to be more of a mixed bag. After I get his initial answers/reaction, I'll go into more detail about exactly how I'm feeling and how this has been damaging my self esteem and mental health. If I can't feel confident he's on the right road to recovery, I can't feel confident in the relationship and there's no point in continuing. My last ditch effort would probably be sending him a link to my journal and maybe even other posts I've done on here as well as some posted by other SOs and recovering addicts. I've struggled with him not being able to really see how this has affected me, how it has hurt me. How HE has hurt me. At that point, when I've got one foot out the door, maybe that will shake something loose in his brain.

    Hopefully this will just be a check in to touch base and progress from there. But I do think it's going to get a lot more involved. I've written this all out in a letter and outline to help me remember all what I want to say if the time comes. When the time comes. If I'm honest with myself I realize that he has WAY more to lose than I do. I'm in a win/win situation. Either he's on board with recovery and improving himself and our relationship and I get what I want and need from him OR I realize he's not willing to do what it takes to make things healthy for him, me, and us so I walk and get to live a life without dating/loving an addict and can hopefully find someone who gives me what I deserve and who deserves all I have to give. I see his side as win/lose - he wins me and a healthy life by losing PM - but he may see it as lose/lose in which case that's all I need to know.
    Jaghorn likes this.
  10. i_wanna_get_better1

    i_wanna_get_better1 Fapstronaut

    Since you are taking the relationship to the next level you might want to revisit the expectations/boundaries/consequences conversation. There needs to be no misunderstandings. Since the addiction is still fresh it's best to make sure you have an exit plan. There is no rush to mix finances or anything that might make a separation more difficult. Normally, a couple should be creating more bonds that draw them closer together but when one person is still battling addiction it's best to be optimistic but cautious. You can always speed up the relationship but very difficult to slow it down. You've made very good decisions up until now and I'm sure you'll take this all into account going forward.
  11. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    Thanks @i_wanna_get_better1. As usual :) No worries about the finance mixing, etc. That's a long way off. The only intertwining is clothing, a few toiletries and some plants/fish. But that happened awhile ago, unrelated to the discussion/plans of moving in together. His sister got engaged last night/this morning. I'll be curious to see if that has any effect on him and his outlook. I may ask him about that more too. And if during/after our talk I'm not happy/comfortable with where he is, where it will leave the relationship, we are NOT moving in together. At the very least. I am preparing myself for as many scenarios as possible, including walking away. The exit plan will essentially be me telling him what he's done or is willing to do just isn't enough and I can't do this anymore. I deserve better and finally realize and embrace that. Then I may or may not help him unpack/move the aforementioned items and bid him as amicable a farewell as possible. He's not a bad person, but this addiction (if left unchecked) does make him a bad boyfriend and a bad prospect for the future. I've mentioned it several times here, and noted that the more I say it, the more a real option it is in my head. I will not die upon his sword. Whoa, dramatic much? But in all seriousness, I refuse to allow my health and sanity to continue suffering in order to support someone who won't put in what I consider the bare minimum for a healthy relationship. It's only been 4 months since we first started discussing this, and just over 3 months since he really started rebooting, so it is early days indeed. So now's the time to see what he's learned and what he's done and is willing to do for himself and for us. Keep you posted.
  12. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    I'm sorry for the absence. I've still been on here reading and hurting with SOs, finding hope on the boards alongside posts that disappoint, scare, and infuriate me to no end. Dear men, women just want to be thought of and treated as people, not objects. It really is as simple as that. Oh, and if you're in a relationship, don't be a selfish douchebag. Actually, it should read, "dear people, other people just want to be thought of and treated AS people, not objects or lesser beings. Certainly not like something you OWN or are entitled to." And everyone should want to not be a selfish douchebag, in OR outside of a romantic relationship.

    I'm having an especially rough day. I feel like a coward, a scared weeping husk of a person lately. I so want to be writing on these boards more frequently, but I've been waiting to post something positive - forward moving - progress in the best sense. Each time I'm about to, though, something spoils it. So, here I am laying on the couch as dawn rises around me, dried tears stiffening on my face. I finally had to come here, if only to again feel the connection to all you wonderful people who get it, who get me and what we're all going through from both sides.

    I thought things were getting better. That seems to be the pattern. YAY! slight progress. Damn, a backslide. I am tired of backslides. Especially because I feel like they are happening in almost equal proportion to the progress so really, little progress is being made. Has been made, in a few months.

    POSSIBLE TRIGGER WARNING!!! And length warning too, in retrospect. So, the usual ;)

    Since I last posted, he was FINALLY able to finish with me orally. Several times in the course of a week and a half. This was so exciting! I was so happy. He said he had only had that once or twice, EVER. HUGE progress, right?

    Then shit hit the fan - of a different sort. I found out that, contrary to his initial assertion that he was done with weed/pot/marijuana in his life, he had still been doing it. Infrequently, but still. My parents were absent from my childhood because of drugs, marijuana being one of them - the major one. Again, it's a lack of being present. It's escapism, disengagement, and neglect. For the record, I voted to legalize marijuana. I have literally NEVER done it and never want to but I do not think anyone who does it is bad or wrong - it's just a lifestyle incompatibility to me. I have friends who do it. Their life, their choice. As long as it doesn't impact me, no harm no foul. But it does mean I can't have it in MY life - directly or in a romantic partner - especially a live-in one. I explained all this to him. He knew I didn't like it. Smoking, especially - tobacco or weed I can't stand it. I found out because he came home to me drunk and high - AWESOME! - hours after I had left a party, his sister's housewarming party, a party at which he and I interacted less than 10 or 15 minutes of the 4+ hours I was there. He was a social butterfly, fueled by meeting new people and beer, with everyone but me. I couldn't mingle because I was still in pain and on antibiotics (so no booze) from an ER visit earlier in the week. This didn't occur to him (I brought it up later) and I didn't want to ruin what was obviously a very good time for him. So I stayed my time and then left. We had driven separately so he could pick up a friend and he needed to drop her off after the party before coming home. So he did. He drove when he probably shouldn't have, given the amount he'd drank. Then he decided to further intoxicate himself by smoking weed, and oh yeah, drive again while drunkish and high. I was LIVID. I am ashamed to admit I was a little pleased at his discomfort when he got home. It was apparently too strong or something. Natural consequences, instant karma, call it what you will but I was glad he was suffering. I certainly was.

    We had a big talk that night that got paused for sleep - his, not mine since I couldn't sleep more than an hour after all that. All I could do was brood and cry and plan all the things I was going to say when we resumed the conversation. And we did. Here's where I'm really proud of myself. I told him all the above. I told him I couldn't have smoking or drugs in my life which means I can't be with anyone who does them, legal or not. (The same would go for someone who drank heavily or regularly). So smoking drugs is a definite dealbreaker. He claimed he thought it would be ok for him to do it away from me. I asked him why, if that was the case, he had hidden it from me until then. Yeah. Busted. He knew exactly how I felt and that I would be unhappy with it. He has said he does it because it helps with his anxiety. I should have called him out on that but I didn't. Because out of all the instances I'm aware of (a weeklong binge with some cousins, a random joint with a girl in his class, a session before his final exam, a celebration of 4/20, and that night where he came home high) only one of those involved anxiety. The others were for pure fun/entertainment/whatever. So I call bullshit on that. I'll save calling him out on it for another time.

    Anyway, he begged me not to be done with him. I told him I didn't see how we could continue when he wants to do something I have a zero tolerance policy for. Huh, that seems to be a theme. Where have I heard that before? He then offered to do it only once a year (probably on 4/20). Sorry, no. We're only 4 months into the year and you've done it 3 times - I doubt you can stick to once a year. So he said, "what if I try REALLY hard not to do it, but if I slip up I let you know right away?". Again, deja vu with the PMO thing. I told him that would be preferable BUT that I almost certainly have a limit and I don't know what that is. It could be the first time. He responded with "Well then I won't do it at all then." Gee, if that was an option, why didn't you offer it first? !!!!!!!!!! He said he would stop because he didn't want to have to go through this conversation again. I was ready to walk right then and there and I think he could tell. I'm still pissed that he was more able to commit to quitting due to not wanting to deal with the emotional hassle and confrontation than because it hurts me. But, if the end result is the same, that's the only compromise I can make. For now. It may eat away at me anyway.

    So I am staring down ANOTHER talk this weekend. A check in of sorts. I hate having to have so many discussions, though I do like the taking stock element. Because I want/need to know where he is with P, with M, with ogling and objectifying, and his promises to quit weed too. I wonder if the last may have amped up his anxiety and the need to M. Self soothing and all that.


    Because, since that night almost 3 weeks ago, he hasn't been able to finish again with me orally. Last Sunday, though, he was able to finish in a different position. YAY! Progress! Then we had an unsuccessful attempt (he couldn't finish at all) a few days after that. And last night, while he did finish, he had a really difficult time staying, ahem, "ready." He was good while we were actively engaged. When we tried to switch to a position that actually allows ME to finish, it was a no go. Not a big deal. Transition issues. That happens to everybody. But then nothing, including oral couldn't bring him back. It took a short stint of self-stimulation for him to get ready again. Gawd I hate that. I didn't want to bring it up right then and there - I remember reading a lot of articles that say to wait until later to bring up sexual issues. So part of the talk will be how, in the future, if that happens again I would rather stop and try again later. Because being there, waiting while he does his thing is agonizing. Each second is a nail hammered into my self esteem and confidence. I know this isn't my fault but as all SO's have said, it sure feels like a personal affront.

    Also, if I'm unable to get off, I turn my focus on him. Him, not so much. Selfish much? Another recurring theme. And he's only hurting things more by self-stimulating either with or without me. Especially without me. Like, seriously, how can you not see that it is a cyclical issue? 2 or 3 times a week isn't TOO much sex, is it? He's been able to go a day or two or even three in a row. It's gotta be something else. So I think he is Ming which is hurting us, especially me. He's getting the best of both worlds. It's to the point where I've briefly contemplated setting up a nanny cam or 2 to see what's going on when I'm not here. To check against what he tells me. I used to think he was brutally honest, to a fault, so I could at least trust in that even if it hurt me in the process. His lies of omission have broken that. So he's managed to hurt me with honesty AND lies. And there's no reason he can't continue to lie to me, to protect his addiction(s). So how do I trust again now? Because I was ready to be done that night, the next morning. I am thisclose to my breaking point. Another lie and I'm out.

    So I'm mad, I'm sad, I'm tired and frustrated - mentally, emotionally, and sexually - I haven't been able to finish in a few weeks. Last night I had hope, I was asserting myself! But as seen above, it was a no go. Funny thing is, I don't even NEED to finish if the engagement and connection are there. That is satisfaction enough for me. Like last Sunday. I was THRILLED with his ability to finish in another position so I was good. So many of the other recent times things have faltered so I don't have anything from those sessions to bolster me in lieu of my own gratification. It would be nice to finish at least more of the time though. Currently it's less than 25% of the time and dropping. I don't want sex to turn into something that is unsatisfying and hurtful, but that's the direction it could be headed. In which case I won't want it at all which is really sad. And will mean the end of the relationship. While it may not be the most important thing, it is a critical element and a big source of bonding.

    I commend all the fapstronauts and their determination to becoming free of this addiction but I truly marvel at the SOs, their tolerance, their ability to persevere in the face of this. When you see relapses happening a few days in, a few weeks or months in, the battle is fresh and ongoing. Relapses after a year or more "clean" makes me wonder how we can EVER let our guard down fully. How can we feel safe? There are no guarantees in any relationship but trying to live normally while keeping ever vigilant, knowing there is an enemy ever-present, is exhausting.

    So, a talk is imminent (no more capitalization - too many talks to have THE TALK anymore). I guess then I should say yet another talk is imminent. This whole situation feels like an ocean of pain. Waves of it hit, then recede, only to come back again and again. I don't know which one will finally drown me. I need to find a boat, a lifeline. But increasingly, I just want off this beach.
  13. ItsNeverTooLate

    ItsNeverTooLate Fapstronaut

    So sorry to hear of your struggles. Screw a boat, you need a yacht with a personal masseuse after what you've been through! Best wishes and strength to you! You will get through this! Hugs!!!
  14. InfinitePossibilities

    InfinitePossibilities Fapstronaut

    First of all, thank you for providing insights from the partners point of view.

    Besides the pmo issue, it might help to check if his behaviour (many addictions, right?) is related to adhd. I have adhd and getting proper medication was a milestone in my life.

    Wish you all the best.
  15. fuzzywaz

    fuzzywaz Fapstronaut

    Oh man... This is hard to read. I am sorry you are hurting. If I could give you any advice, I would say: dump him. The amount of energy, both physically, mentally and emotionally that you are giving this guy is not appreciated or in any way reciprocated. If I were you, I would get free of him, and focus all that energy on myself to heal and grow stronger.
    Also this- no, this doesn't happen to everyone. This guy is completely sexually dysfunctional and it is directly resulted from his porn use. I am in my mid 30's and I feel so bad for the generation of younger women who are dealing with the 'men' who grew up with internet porn. In my late teens/ and into my 20's I never encountered anything like this. None of my friends complained of their sexual encounters routinely involving the guys going soft and having to masturbate themselves to finish. Find someone who is not a selfish addict and can care about how their actions effect you, and love you the way you deserve to be loved <3
    Bel, kropo82 and TooMuchTooSoon like this.
  16. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    @ItsNeverTooLate, thank you for the kind words. I'm still treading water but a massage sounds divine ;)

    @InfinitePossibilities thank you as well. I wish you the best in your journey. I know it's difficult and I'm glad to be of help in understanding the other side. I asked him about ADHD in a roundabout way and looked up the symptoms. Some definitely fit. Others not so much. So I just don't know. There are only so many paths to explore, especially when you feel like you're shouldering the majority of the burden. I've grown very tired and refuse to be the only one working on it.

    @fuzzywaz I don't disagree at all. I know you're right. For whatever reason, codependency or excessive Pollyanna optimism, I'm not ready to let go. Yet. I can feel the possibility growing, though. Little by little. Day by day. Disappointment after disappointment. It was especially strong today. Sadly I've started to believe that there may not be anyone out there who can treat me better. The more I look at this world and it's increasingly twisted nature the more I despair. It really seems a case of the devil you know vs the one you don't. I fear there is no other option. Nothing but monsters can survive the future in which we're headed.

    I also have to admit, there is appeal in feeling like you're the one to help someone change, a catalyst to betterment. It's power of a sort. It says you're important. You matter. And it's proof that love can conquer all. But it can't. I've seen it firsthand, experienced it myself too. Love is a beautiful thing, but it wilts in the face of selfishness and falters when not supported from both sides.

    I keep trying to find excuses for continuing. He says he loves me. But increasingly I worry he does only love the idea of me, a loyal girlfriend with a backbone but a loving and forgiving heart. Not a doormat but a security blanket. A safety net. Someone who gives him all the feelings and experiences he's ever wanted. But it seems superficial. A facade. I am not at all sure he loves ME. For WHO I am. What I am. As a person with thoughts and dreams and feelings. A complex entity to passionately explore and KNOW as much as possible. That creates admiration and respect. I don't feel either from him. That may kill my feelings even faster than the PMO issues.

    Speaking of... our last 'successful' interlude was last Tuesday. Failed attempts Friday AND today. He suspects another med, this time a beta blocker. It is possible but why now when he's been on it this whole time, for years I believe? And it hasn't been an issue until this week? Is that really possible? I asked him that and if it could be related to other meds or anything else. He said no but it's impossible for me not to suspect or wonder at the other (likelier) causes as experienced in the past. His mood grew so low I didn't have the heart to question further. I wish I could take him at his word. My heart hopes but my head scoffs. The trust just isn't there. And how can I hope to get it back?

    Am I a coward to want to record audio and/or video in my house? To prove something either way? For reassurance or confirmation of suspicions. I feel like something concrete or a lack thereof will give me strength. To truly know what I'm dealing with. Who I'm dealing with. Someone who is trying or someone who is lying. To continue fighting for us or run as fast as I can.

    I think I need to write down everything in a letter to myself. Like I would talk to a close friend in a similar situation. List all the issues that have come up or should be brought up. A pro/con list of him, our relationship, and staying vs. leaving. Maybe that will offer some clarity, something in literal black and white. I certainly need to do something.

    Leaving would break his heart. I do believe that. I know I can't save him from himself but I would rather cause as little pain as possible. I've always hurt myself before others. I know I need to put the oxygen mask on myself first. It's hard when I've always put myself last. But I've had a lot of disappointment in my life and I don't need to contribute any more. I just need to keep reminding myself of that.
  17. ItsNeverTooLate

    ItsNeverTooLate Fapstronaut

    This is not true. Though from what I have learned through therapy sessions of my own and others I'm close with, people will treat you the way you treat yourself. If you allow yourself to be used, others will see this and know they can use you too. If you are angry and bitter, they will be defensive and guarded around you. If you are helpful and kind yet assertive by not allowing people to take advantage of you, they will know you are reliable but not to be walked all over.

    Also, I've met men who stand by their women with respect and admiration. Plus it doesn't matter if the person who can treat you better isn't at the coffee shop down the road waiting to be discovered. What's important is that you don't deserve to settle! You are worth more than that!

    Could it be possible that maybe it's the rock bottom he needs to wake up from his fog. Don't see it as abandoning him as much as it is saving yourself and helping him realize the result of he's actions or lack of self-improving actions. It may be what he needs to save himself. If not, then you know his heart really isn't broken (despite what he may say) and you are better off being free to find the respect and happiness you deserve. "Actions speak louder than words."

    Devil's advocate. When and how do you define that moment of littlest pain?

    If he were a gambler, would it be less painful watching your saving account empty, your house and belongings get repossessed? Would you wait until he really felt like he was nothing and has left you two dirt poor and then leave him because you refuse to be homeless with him or move back in with his/your parents? Or would you pop up a tent under a bridge and stay to watch him steal from people/parents to feed his addiction? Or would you be willing to continually cancel and reopened accounts every time he "stole" passwords from you and watch him bounce job to job since he either embezzles or is let go for gambling instead of tending his duties?

    When is that moment of littlest pain? Major debt but still getting by? And does it come at the expense of being your greatest pain? Working 2-3 jobs to make ends meet with no time for you or your relationship?

    Yes! Keep reminding yourself of that!

    The point I'm making is not whether leaving or staying in your relationship is the right choice, but more, what are you going to do to get yourself in a place to recognize your self value and worth? I could write the same to your SO and it would also apply. What is it going to take for him to realize that he is worth more and deserves a life free from addiction?

    I'm sorry it is rough right now. I hope you both can find a way to work things out that is in both of your favors. I feel partnerships can be extremely helpful to move through difficult times but not when it's at the expensive of someone suffering. Best wishes to the both of you! My only wish for all on this community is for them to see their true, empathetic self and realize genuine happiness. ❤❤❤❤
    Bel, stygian, Kenzi and 2 others like this.
  18. TooMuchTooSoon

    TooMuchTooSoon Fapstronaut

    @ItsNeverTooLate, I appreciate the tough love. I need it. Both aspects of it. Truly. So thank you again.

    To make the pain as little as possible... I think I may actually be speaking of myself rather than him. I need my own rock bottom in the relationship. I need to find and face the point where the thought of staying hurts more than the prospect of leaving.

    I do want what's best for both of us. Together or separate. I wish I knew for certain where he is in the addiction spectrum. Is he still fighting and making progress? Has he resumed P and/or M? Asking does me no good now that trust has been lost. So. How do you believe (in) someone who has lied and/or omitted things from you? What ARE you supposed to do to feel confident in your knowledge of the situation? I feel stuck in a limbo of hope and doubt. In some ways it's picking between believing the best of people and their potential vs relegating them to inevitably monstrous behavior.

    I continue to work on my codependency. My whole childhood revolved around thinking of others first. But also of learning that you have to stand on your own 2 feet because you can't trust anyone to be there for you. And the main source of a woman's worth, especially to men, is in their physical beauty. After internalizing all that plus various sexual abuses from friends, family members, and significant others I think I'm prone to monsters. I do attract them.

    In a world that objectifies, devalues, and degrades women I expect nothing less than what amounts to monsters. Men are being taught to view and treat us that way. Sadly, so many women reinforce that because they've been taught the same. I among them. But now the blinders are off and I'm left to see the atrocities for what they are. I really get the whole red pill/blue pill thing now.

    So, it will be hard to look past the monsters, to see decent men, respectful and loving men. I have seen too few to believe in their existence. I've known too many that seemed good but turned out to be sexist or manipulative or misogynistic. These weren't all romantic partners. They were friends' dads. Bosses. Colleagues. My own friends and family members. All with clay feet so to speak. So I will need to learn how to attract what amounts to unicorns for me. :) Or rather I will need to learn how to find and see good men for what they are. I hope I can. I'd like to believe in a better world, in better people, again.
    Bel, ItsNeverTooLate and kropo82 like this.
  19. kropo82

    kropo82 Fapstronaut

    I'm late to this thread, sorry for quoting old posts.

    Your openness and honesty, and the rawness of the emotions you are going through are very moving. You are a brave woman.

    I don't feel the same way about masturbation. I'm not sure sexual energy is finite; sometimes I feel a need to masturbate quite soon after sex. To me (and this may just be me) I have a fear of my sex life being entirely 'owned' by someone else. I don't know where this comes from: it may be my father who had mistresses (although as a kid I don't think I realised). I am not like that, I have only ever made love to one woman (now my wife) but I do sometimes bridle against the sense of loss of self. Those are the wrong words, I can't seem to find the right ones.

    I think a rich fantasy life and masturbation are healthy, but telling you when he has masturbated while thinking about a specific other woman seems unwise and unkind.

    For my wife and I it is porn that is the problem. It was porn that was eating away at her self-esteem. It is porn that I need to stop. One thing I would like to say to your SO is that (and I found this counter intuitive) stopping masturbating has really helped me resist porn. I thought (as you suggested when you said "sexual energy is definitely finite") that if I masturbated then my immediate desire for pornography would subside. That did not work. Turning away from masturbation is making it easier to say "no" to pornography.

    Amen to that.

    The moment I keep returning to is a few years ago when my wife delivered her ultimatum. My porn use was hurting her and either I had to stop or she would have to leave. She was frightened, and I could see that she expected me to choose porn over her. How, after so many years together, had I let her reach that level of worthlessness? Argh.

    I read an interesting short poem yesterday by rupi kaur (she's not a fan of capital letters!) in her collection 'milk and honey':

    it won't
    be love at
    first sight when
    we meet it'll be love
    at first remembrance cause
    i've seen you in my mother's eyes
    when she tells me to marry the type
    of man i'd want to raise my son to be like

    There are decent good men. None are perfect, we all have flaws, but perhaps rather than hunting for the decent core inside monsters you need a basically decent guy.
    Last edited: May 30, 2017
    ItsNeverTooLate likes this.
  20. ItsNeverTooLate

    ItsNeverTooLate Fapstronaut

    It's smart of you to recognize this. Most people push these thoughts out of their mind. Even if the emotions are difficult to deal with, recognizing where you are in your self awareness is a positive step. Good for you!

    Very much so! I agree. @TooMuchTooSoon Remember these words! Just because you are going through some struggles right now, remember you are not less. In fact you are more for confronting them! Everything you're experiencing is normal for someone in your situation. Chin up! Keep writing and expressing yourself! You can get through this!

    More hugs! :emoji_hugging::emoji_hugging::emoji_hugging:

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