I understand the point of the OPs question. She’s searching for hope, because she’s searching for a reason to try and keep trust alive in the relationship. That’s the purpose behind the question on whether it’s possible for porn addicts to be permanently cured. The topic of trust is at the very heart of this discussion.
Let me break this down for you- addicts lie. That is a fact. Her boyfriend has lied on numerous occasions. They are not trustworthy and all addicts lie. They first lie to themselves. Then they lie to hide their addiction or the severity of their addiction. There is no addiction without lies and no recovery without truth. Thousands of women, yeah thousands, I work with many of them. If you dont believe that, maybe start following somevbetrayal trauma groups or schedule an appointment with a csat and ask. But seriously? For every addict in a relationship where they lie, the partner is betrayed. So taking your own number of 10% of people who watch porn admit to addiction, and numbers/studies suggest that 90% of men watch porn that’s a lot of freaking betrayed partners even if only 1/3rd are in relationships or lie. Mocking ? Where was the mocking? That is your own shame. 5 years is considered long term recovery. You provided your stats to lend credibility but fail to see that it’s not long term recovery. That’s not mocking, that’s truth. She wants to know about long term, not 90 days, not 365 days, she asked about forever. On this forum alone I can only point to a few in long term recovery( Dr. Elko,Jjackson, Kropo, Tao has 3 years+ but is struggling right now, Bob the rebuilder just relapsed after 400+ days ) And for us partners, that’s what matters, not your streaks. As you pointed out, these are the ones who admit addiction, are trying and it’s still incredibly hard, really almost impossible for them to get into long term recovery. Yes I lump addicts together , because you share common denominators. Are you all 100% alike, no, not all escalate in real life, some want sex every day multiple times with their partner others avoid sex at all cost. You seem to not understand that porn addiction is sex addiction. Even though porn addiction isn’t about sex( neither is sex addiction) it uses sexual gratification as it’s doc. Since addictions escalate porn addicts are in a very vulnerable state to escalate in real life. Which many do, but not all. Those who have IA ( 30% of porn addicts do) will most likely never escalate in real life. I absolutely will tell every partner, male or female, my experience with a sex addict. It’s almost identical to every other betrayed partner I’ve met. 4 years of working my own recovery alongside hundreds of women and a few men have shown me that my experience is common. Just as you on this forum have found that your experiences as an addict is common with other addicts. You may not like what I have to say and call me bitter, projecting. I don’t like what the men on here say. So I’ll just leave this for her -join betrayal trauma groups. Learn everything you can about porn addiction. Btr.org, Bloom for women ( started by Dr.Skinner, hands down one of the best porn addiction specialist) follow Sarah mcdougal on Facebook or Instagram. Get the book Intimate Deception by Sheri Kefer, I went through( with husband) Out of the Shadows by Carnes I believe? It gives you a good idea of the reality of porn/sex addiction. Read An Affair of the Mind, it’s an old one. Your Sexually Addicted Spouse is a good book. Find a csat. I love mine, and I like my husbands too. Join a group of betrayed partners they will be life saving for you! Really set boundaries if you stay, the first being a polygraph. Protect yourself.
Hope and trust are two different topics. Once more, the trust factor is not for you, me or anyone else but OP to decide and it's not relevant to the question she has asked. You can speak from your own experience and say you personally would not trust someone if they did "xyz" but not claim your own experience to be prominent and consistent amongst all porn addicts. Let's leave it here, agree to disagree as I don't think we are getting anywhere.
To you as well, let's leave it here as we are not getting anywhere. Agree to disagree. Best of luck to you.
Agree, And for the record , I think you’re doing great at your recovery. I believe you can get into long term recovery eventually if you stay committed.
@Redemptionisrequired I don’t want to drag you back into this but I’d like to say that you handled yourself well here. I agree with much of what you said. Back handed compliment. No, that has nothing to do with his own shame. You belittled his achievements, because according to you it’s not “long term recovery.” 5 years is considered long term recovery, according to who exactly? Sounds like a completely arbitrary number to me. To someone else, 5 years may not qualify as that either. What if someone relapses after 6 years, what will you say then? You seem to be forgetting that redemption is required is single, and thus doesn’t have any sexual outlet whatsoever like your husband does. To me, your husbands so called 2 year streaks aren’t streaks at all. You’re right, it’s harder to overcome a sex addiction while having sex. But it’s also a lot easier to not masturbate or watch porn while having sex. That’s the distinction you seem to have failed to make, as you belittle a single man for going 390 days without any sexual release. Have you gone that long yourself? Since you’re on such a high horse here, tell us how long you’ve gone without any form of sexual stimulation.
By your logic, should a man who hasn’t pmo’d or even had sex for 3 years warn a new girlfriend that he’s a porn/sex addict? Since after all, he hasn’t reached long term recovery? I’m sorry but this is laughable. How many healthy men do you think are walking around on this planet who haven’t masturbated in 5 years, let alone 2 weeks? This really comes from a place of someone who is absolutely deluded about the reality of the world. I saw you mention that most porn addicts think that everyone is a porn addict. News flash, that’s because nearly everyone is. How you define addict is the only way you can change that. In high school, I didn’t have a single friend who didn’t watch porn. We spoke about it openly. I have a cousin who took steroids once, which messed up his testosterone levels and thus sex drive, and he is the only one I know who doesn’t regularly masturbate. But he still does every so often. I’ve spoken to Muslim’s living in Muslim countries with extreme traditional values, who have told me that most people he knows are porn addicts, or “coomers” as I like to call it. If people are addicted to porn in a highly religious country where women aren’t even allowed to show their faces let alone any skin, how do you think people are elsewhere? In the United States for example, where religion is rarely taken seriously. Did you go to college? Do you think most college students are walking around on multi year streaks of abstinence? The only reason most of the women on here feel so betrayed and shocked by their husbands addiction, is because 1) they’re made aware of it while others aren’t 2) He has an extreme addiction, or 3) They have extreme standards which most other women don’t care about. That’s not to say that I think pmo is ok to do while married, it’s not. But it is definitely very very common. How many people are living in sexless marriages? Are they both on 10 year streaks? Or do they take care of themselves? Even religious people who wait until marriage to have sex, often masturbate until then. So if any of you were to come across a man like redemption is required, you would in fact be more than lucky to find a catch like him. Instead, you @Psalm27:1my light belittle him. Someone else mentioned that the purpose for quitting this addiction should be for ones self, not for the sake of their spouse. Because in that case freedom is a lot more likely. Which is exactly what most of us on this site are doing. We value what sexual control offers. Instead of commending us for that, you equate us to your husband who only tries to stop for your sake.
1-2 years recovery is considered short term, 5 years long term is the general consensus of addiction specialist that I’ve worked with, but here they say a median of 12 years. I’ve gone years without sexual stimulation. I’m not belittling him, why do you think pointing out how little sobriety he has ( compared to the years he’s acted out in addiction) is belittling? You guys are not doing anyone any favors by minimizing what it takes to get into long term recovery. You also still believe that a person can’t survive without sex so you think my husband has it easier. He goes to group 3x a week, counseling 2x a month, he retired early because he didn’t think he could stay in recovery with the stress of his job, he gave up internet access on all his devices, he started new hobbies, he did emdr for trauma, he did neurofeedback for adhd, finally got help for depression, he takes a polygraph any time I ask, and the list goes on, but yes tell me how easy it is because he as a wife. Lol I’ll go let all the married people know that they must not be trying hard enough or that their sobriety is so much easier and less work than the single people.
First of all sex addiction is not comparable to any other addictions. Sex drive is innate. The drive to use drugs or alcohol is not. Tell us more about that. Was it 5 years straight? Did you go years while you were young in your 20s? Teens? Why did you go years without? Were you actively trying not to? Or do you have health issues that you probably don’t want to acknowledge here that mean your sex drive isn’t normal? Um, probably because of the tone you used, along with the fact that you ignored all context so that you could attempt to discredit his opinion on this matter? No one is minimizing anything. You are the one minimizing just how difficult it is to go 380 days without pmo as a young single man. Among the other streaks he’s had. What are you talking about? I know well that anyone can survive without sex. Are you telling me on your husbands so called streaks you weren’t having sex? If so clarify. That’s irrelevant. It is easier to not watch porn and masturbate when sex can replace it. If you could, please respond to the second comment I made for you. I’d like to hear your thoughts on whether or not we should be earning future partners about our porn addiction despite having not done it in 3 years. Since after all, we still aren’t recovered according to you. I’d also like to hear more from you about how us on the site are the only ones in the world with porn addiction, and it’s in fact not that common.
Yes you absolutely should disclose you’re a porn addict even if you have 10 years sobriety. Sorry, you’re not in long term recovery according to experts, not me. No where did I say that those on this site are the only addicts, there are plenty of porn addicts who have no idea they are even addicts. As to no sex, well, being married to a porn addict many times means they have no desire for sex and can’t get it up. Since I don’t masturbate and my husband had zero desire for actual sex because he had pied. But go argue with all the married addicts who can’t stop about how easy it is for them compared to you.
Try 99% of the population. Which is precisely why you sound absolutely absurd suggesting that someone who hasn’t pmo’d for 10 years should disclose that. I don’t know what world you live in, but it sure is a strange one. Again, the only thing you linked was something on general addiction, not sex addiction specifically. Which as I already mentioned, is not comparable to any other addictions. I used to be addicted to smoking weed daily. I don’t even know how long ago it was that I quit, because I simply have no desire to do it and didn’t write it down. Probably around 5 years. It absolutely never crosses my mind. Now try going 5 years without a single sexual thought. See the difference? Wonder if I should warn people about my weed addiction too, since it hasn’t been 12 years. Regardless, I couldn’t care less about a few arbitrary words like “long term recovery.” Means absolutely nothing, just like the word “experts.” Yeah I have no idea about the severity of your husbands addiction, but if I was in his position I would definitely not have any trouble getting it up. Thus having sex would make it a lot easier to avoid porn and masturbation. Simple as swapping one for the other. If he had no desire for sex, he shouldn’t have any desire for pmo either, unless quite frankly he isn’t attracted to you. But I’m still interested to hear more about why you don’t masturbate and when you stopped masturbating. I’d like to know about those teens and 20s. Since you like to compare yourself as a 54 year old woman with a porn addict husband to single 20 and early 30 year old men.
Dr. Patrick Carnes, who is an expert in P/S addiction, has done studies and determined that lasting recovery involves six stages, and when worked through properly, it takes about 5 years. I don't think she was minimizing anything, and in fact, she was doing the opposite when she originally replied to the OP about the likelihood of dealing with this for a long time to come if she stays in the relationship. Anyone who's been married to a P/S addict for years knows the difficulty in conquering this addiction. That's what a lot of addicts falsely believe, but since this addiction is not about a lack of sex, they eventually realize that sex with a person only helps briefly, and then they're back to facing the addiction. If the word of the experts, who've spent a lot of time researching and studying, means nothing to you, then where do you get your information, and how is that supposed to be more reputable? I already talked about the erroneous belief that this addiction can be cured by sex with a person, but it's also not true that a desire for PMO equates to a desire for partnered sex. Have you read anything around here written by married addicts who've been trying to get in recovery for a long time? I'm glad that you think you're different from everyone else and that you can never be affected by PIED, but a lot of them thought that at one time, too...and now they know they were wrong. As opposed to your friendly, open-minded, accepting-of-her-opinion tone? From the first post you made on this thread, you have been trying to discredit everything she's said including her opinions and shared experiences.
What makes him an expert? Is he an ex addict? Six stages huh, sounds a lot like a gimmick. Can you define “lasting recovery?” I don’t think you understand just how complex sex addiction is, given that as ill say for the 3rd time, it is not comparable to any other addiction. The closest thing to sex addiction would be some kind of junk food addiction. Both involve the abuse of an already innate drive. Really? Claiming that his opinion is irrelevant because his multiple multi-hundred day streaks aren’t long enough, wasn’t minimizing his achievements? Interesting. Did you happen to read the discussion that went on here? You are arguing something entirely different than I am. Do you realize that many “experts” will tell you that masturbation is actually healthy because it decreases the risk of prostate cancer? That it’s a form of “self-love” and other non sense? If I was to trust experts like you seem to think is a good idea, I’d be on my merry way pmo’ing as much as I’d like. I get my information from personal experience, pretty simple. Along with information on physiology which helps to explain what’s behind addiction on a physical level. Just because people like to develop systems and 6 step programs so that they can sell something, doesn’t mean those systems are infallible or credible. Regardless of any letters attached to their name. For the record, I’m not vaccinated either. If I trusted “experts”, I would have had 5 by now. I’m not talking about sex curing the addiction. Never once did I say that. I simply said it’s easier not to watch porn and masturbate when sex is available. People like me aren’t inspired by people who’ve gone x amount of time without p or m while having sex regularly. I’m not affected by PIED because 1) my addiction isn’t that bad and 2) I live a healthy lifestyle, more than you can imagine, and 3) I’m young. I’ve seen her before acting with this attitude that we’re all doomed porn addicts and if we haven’t gone 20 years without pmo then we’re still the worst blah blah blah. Thought now would be the time to challenge her on it, and no I’m not being nice about it because why should I? She’s allowed to criticize every man here and lump him in the same category as her husband without receiving any critique herself? Since you seem to be answering on her behalf, I’d like to know if you also believe this ridiculous non sense?
Really is it? So you are trying to say, when my husband couldnt stop watching porn, he doesnt love me? Why woudnt he stop if sex could replace it? Why didnt he even want to have sex with me and masturbated and watched porn for years behind my back if it is so easy to replace with sex?
In reference to @YourLocalClown 's situation. I can see why many would tell her to break things off with her partner. If she could, that would be a great idea. But she can't. She's already attached. And she's desperate for him to change because she doesn't want to leave him. Telling her to leave is like telling a porn addict to Just Stop It. Like a porn addict is addicted to porn, she's addicted to him. My best advice would be to find a support system. Find a Cosa or S-Anon group. Get online support from this forum. Online Zoom meeting are always available. Then she can work out some boundaries. And eventually develop the strength to break the relationship if he doesn't change.
He doesn’t want to stop. If he can’t stop, he doesn’t want to. It’s as simple as that. It’s a decision like anything else. He doesn’t understand the value of sexual discipline. I’m sure there a multiple reasons for that, that only he knows. For one, I have never said that real sex is the cure for pmo addiction. I have simply said it is easiER to stop pmo when you can have sex instead. Sex is not an exact replica of the convenience and novelty of pmo. It’s different. But it’s still a sexual outlet. If I had any advice to give those people, I would tell them no sex or pmo for a long long time. Until they truly understand how it feels to be completely abstinent and all the amazing benefits that it brings. Once that foundation is built, then sex can be reintroduced in a disciplined way. Ideally sex without orgasm. Until your husband learns to value sexual purity and discipline, he will never stop. Is he even trying to stop? If so, he better have a better reason than for your sake.
Thank you for your message. Maybe part of your story is correct. However, I still wanted to provide some background information. There are simply 2 options: to support him and set clear boundaries, or to end the relationship. Before we entered into the relationship, he honestly told me that he has an addiction and that it has decreased over the years. So, I didn't find out during the relationship that he had the addiction; if I did, it would have been a different story for me. On the contrary, he has almost always been vulnerable, which I appreciate. We had a good, serious conversation about how to move forward. As I mentioned earlier in my post, he is now aware that the addiction is ruining his whole life and his valuable relationship. The most important thing is that he is aware of it and wants to change. Apart from his porn addiction, the relationship is quite stable. He is a very sweet and gentle man who is almost always there for me. Of course, that makes it more difficult. Now that he has made that statement, I see that he is dealing with it differently and is actually following through with the things I mentioned in my post. Of course, it also affects me and I am aware of it. If I know that I am standing on a mountain and I take one step further, I know 100% that I will fall down. In that case, I would NEVER take that step, because I know that if I take that one step, I will fall down and not survive. That is why I asked in this forum whether porn addiction can also be permanently stopped. I am also very curious about people who are in the same boat. Both the experiences of the partners of the addict and the partner with the addiction.
