I do agree with having no control over them! The control only comes in our commitment to follow through if a boundary is crossed. If they care and believe crossing a boundary will cost more than honoring, then they choose to work with us to build trust and safety.
Years ago yes I felt bad. But, I had 2 decades to work on myself while coming to terms with my impending divorce. I see nothing wrong with needing people anymore. I also have no problem with what others see as “ controlling” behavior. Or crazy behavior ( I will ask for a poly if I think it’s possible he has lied to me). I see it as necessary for my safety.
I think the threat is the start of the control if the mindset is not how @used19 has laid out. And isn't that what everyone is looking for? Having someone CHOOSE to be with the other and love them the way they deserve and want to be loved? It's not possible to do that if we are trying to control each other's actions because of what might happen or what it may cause.
This really doesn't exist in many marriages with addicts (definitely not all). If the addict was caught in their behavior, the only reason they quit was the risk of consequences. They made their real, true-to-self choice when no one else was watching and they weren't thinking they'd get caught. They already chose and they distinctly did not choose their spouse. Anything they do after getting caught is not a function of a real choice, it will always be a decision under duress, controlled by risk of consequence. I think many partners fool themselves, for their own mental sake to stay in the relationship. But the reality is that if the addict was hiding it, or lied about it, or obfuscated, they already knew it would hurt you and their real choice was that they didn't care as long as there was no real consequence for them. In that context, there is no real working together. There is only the addict figuring out where lines are drawn so they avoid consequences.
I also feel super weird calling it "the addict" all the time, but I feel weirder using "husband", as if women don't cheat.
I think you are really underestimating just how much time and effort any addict puts into recovering. I get what your saying about motive due to being "caught". But this isn't something someone can do without making a decision and working to be extremely disciplined. ANY person who has abstained for extended periods of time has put in a ton of effort. I was listening to a podcast the other day that said "addicts in full recovery are some of the most pleasant people to be around, because they have developed emotional muscles some people never have the need for." I'm not saying this is me, but I totally get what they meant. I think there are definitely opportunities to choose even after getting caught, and sometimes the decision to do so shouldn't be diminished. I also think that even if someone relapses after period of time, that doesn't mean that person isn't intensively working on developing these "muscles". And I agree with terminology, so many issues talked about are not exclusive to "addicts" or "husband's" but get talked about in those ways. I feel that way about how all this talk about boundaries keeps getting brought back into that frame of reference.
I think you're underestimating how devastating it is to every sense of self for someone to have to work so hard to not cheat on you.
My husband has been working recovery for 4.5 years now. He definitely is one of the most amazing people to be around… now. He has put in countless hours and work at recovery. He has humbled himself. Really humbled himself. He has more introspection than most people I know, he is more self aware than most people I know, he is constantly changing and learning. This does not negate the incredible pain he inflicted on me. It does not heal the damage his lying and gas lighting and cheating has done to me. He can literally never 100% make up for what he has done to me and our children. You can’t unring a bell. It would be different if he had been honest before we married. He took that choice away from me. The minute we married he was living a lie and I was responding to it. There was never a moment our relationship wasn’t tainted by his addiction. It’s crushing to know he has to work this hard to not actively hurt me and choose complete strangers to pretend F***. It’s also defeating to know my options are to leave ( 36 years of life intertwined) or understand I’m forever at risk of his choices and place myself in a position to be hurt again. Or, stay but completely detached from him as roommates. There is no happily ever after . There is only better than before, or worse than before. And unlike many on here, his addiction caused 99% of our issues. Once he got into active recovery , our entire life and relationship changed. My god how it changed. I’ll never go back. Him relapsing will make it easy to leave, because I finally have a taste of what it’s like to be married to someone not active in his addiction.
I know you repeatedly say that. But you are so very wrong about me. I feel I need to put a disclaimer or something on every post to keep your accusations of that at Bay.
That was specifically why I said not every marriage. I'm never sure what you're denying though. That you have to work hard for it? Also of note that saying "addicts" does not mean I am specifically talking about you.
What do you mean by denying? I'm not denying anything. I'm speaking openly and honestly. As I beleive you are too. You can accept it or not. I try hard to acknowledge what everyone says. And acknowledged I understood what you meant by being caught. Edit: this is disrespectful of the OP. And if this conversation needs to continue a different thread is needed.
I think It’s in the open forum, disrespectful would be on their journal… at least that’s how it was explained to me when I joined. I think what sanctuary meant was you underestimate the damages you’ve done with your addiction ( and you said that wasn’t you) I think that’s what she meant by denying?
I think this can be addressed on my forums if needed. That would be my preference Moving forward. I have not denied anything my wife has felt. Or anyone here, I have tried to bring up some feelings that some may have including me. And I think that is what everyone is doing.
I have no idea what your forum is. You keep saying I'm wrong about you or "that's not me", but I never have any idea what you're talking about. You said not looking at porn was hard. I told you that the fact that men find it very hard not to cheat on their spouses can be devastating to the spouse and you said I was wrong about you (?). I have no idea what you think I'm wrong about, which part are you denying is applicable to you?
I have multiple threads you have commented on. I think there's a misunderstanding. Where did I say you were wrong? You are wrong that I don't take what I've specifically done to my wife very seriously, and that I take everyone's experiences and feelings here seriously as well. You directly told me I am underestimating that, and I'm saying no I am not. I added thoughts to things you expressed after, that I think are worth hearing. I agreed with much of what you said.
I appreciate you writing this, you acknowledged what I meant and provided context from your life. To clarify I never was suggesting that this negated anything. I'm sure you are glad he made the changes he has and I totally understand that it doesn't mean anything from the past changes because of it.
Oh, I didn’t think you were. I think sometimes what happens though is the addict is so proud of his accomplishments ( staying clean for 30, 90, 300 days) he’s worked so hard, that he is confused his wife is not as excited, thrilled, happy like he is( not all partners but many). Of course we aren’t. To us, not masturbating while fantasizing about someone else is not something we think anyone who loves us should struggle with. What I hear is “ I want to be with someone else so much, I’d rather use my hand and pretend than put in any effort with you, but I did it for 300 days! I’m so awesome aren’t you proud of all the hard work I did just to be faithful to you?” No, no I’m not. It seems ridiculous that not touching yourself is this hard. It seems ludicrous that you have to work and struggle not to hurt me and to be freaking honest with me. And that’s why the addict needs others who have the same struggle. Just like the betrayed needs others to understand her struggle. The best we can do is try to understand each other, but I do not think either one of us ever actually “ gets” what the other is going through.
I understand that you lack empathy for what addiction is like. ( As you've expressed before) I understand your viewpoint but there's more to it than just that. Much of what I have tried expressing that gets pushback is some of that struggle. And here I'm trying to actually put some perspective into what @YourLocalClown's boyfriend may be dealing with. I commented on this thread because of a few things she said made me think her bf and I may have in common and she's expressed she wants to help him through this, so I'm trying to offer her something she can bring up and visit with him about. Often, I don't think we may even realize how big a problem something can be, and I had to figure this out on my own. I'm hoping to help reduce the amount of trainwrecks by offering perspective. I would much rather talk about her and her relationship here than what much of this was getting into. @YourLocalClown I hope you're weekend was very enjoyable.
The goal should be that the SO and the PA should be able to understand the other’s position, aka empathy, as much as possible. Nofap.com is full of perspective from the addict, but not as much from the SO. Learning the SO’s perspective helps bring us (who are in recovery) into an understanding of reality. For that, I’m grateful for you @Psalm27:1my light , @SanctuaryWife , @YourLocalClown and others for sharing your unfiltered opinions. It is one of the most helpful things about nofap.com to understand my wife’s pain.
But there is a lot of input from women (SOs) on this site: Rebooting in a relationship--> partner support--> significant other journals. Enjoy reading.
