Dealing with partners porn addiction

Totally agree, it’s so important that we see it from the other side. How else do we begin to even contemplate the pain that we cause otherwise?

 

To clarify, when I say I'd much rather talk about @YourLocalClown here, I'm not saying I don't want to hear SOs thoughts. So if there is any assumption of that I'd like to clear that up now. I actually spend almost all my time here in these sections of the site for that reason. And publicly and privately thank people for their input and experiences.

I guess maybe it doesn't matter if a thread goes off course. Just trying to be considerate of the OP. New threads can be created for more in depth subjects and much is out there already. If that's not an issue forget I even suggested it. I've read a lot of it and care about everyone and what they are going through.

 

I wonder if the way your bad habit affects the women that love you is a deterrent at all. In my case it doesn't seem like it. My pain for his 5 minute thrill seems to be worth it for him. I might never get over the mind f*ck. I strongly encourage addicts to read up on how this affects the partner. This is not a victimless vice.

 

No it's not a deterrent. Not at all. Many of us had to dig deeper for other reasons to quit. I know I had to. Maybe I'm not capable of love. Because this instinctual subconscious desire within me to hump every women in sight was a force more powerful than anything I've ever endured and squashed love like a bug.

I doubt if it's the answer wives were hoping to hear. But at least it's an honest one.

 

Lol, any partner who has been with a porn addict knows they don’t care one bit about our pain, until after. Then the addict regrets it. The partner might not want to admit it to themselves, but they know it. That’s what made it easy for me to detach. I knew I wouldn’t leave until the kids were grown and I knew I was no longer going to invest in someone who cared so little about me. On the flip side I’d argue an addict doesn’t know what love is, they hate themselves and until they get into true recovery cannot connect and love anyone.

 

I 100% agree with you on this one. I'm still trying to wrap my head around this love thing. Thank you. Good share

 

What you're saying here makes perfect sense to me. Boundaries aren't the same thing as preferences, they're letting someone know what your expectations for their behaviour are. In effect, it is inherently controlling to set boundaries. Just because someone is free to ignore your boundaries doesn't mean they're not intended to control, it's just a fact that people can ignore them.

I think it's also notable that in this forum, boundaries for trust are quite tenuous. Me and my partner have never really had any issues regarding porn or anything like that, so she basically places no boundaries upon me other than the unspoken, assumed boundaries (i.e., don't cheat). From the perspective of our relationship, stuff like not hugging friends is just totally unreasonable and I'd not for one second countenance agreeing to it.

I think though, to move back to a normal relationship, there has to be an attempt to understand that the wronged party needs to heal from that trauma also. In the context of a healthy relationship, people should ideally be able to follow women's volleyball news without world war three kicking off. Whilst it's understandable that being betrayed might induce extreme responses to otherwise innocuous behaviours, I think for the relationship to work both parties need to recover/heal otherwise you never get back to normal, healthy boundaries.

 

I'm sorry but this is just not fair to the betrayed at all and demonstrates a lack of understanding of sheer magnitude of the trauma we SOs are trying to heal from. You don't get to be the one who pushes someone off a cliff, permanently disabling them due to the injuries, and then say, oh when you're healed let's go back to being bffs. Whoopsie, can't wait till you heal.

Most of us already set, normal, healthy boundaries. Our husbands proved they were incapable of even meeting a low bar. If you guys were capable of following reasonable relationship expectations there wouldn't be all this damage in the first place. We already went along with reasonable, we no longer have interest in being trampled by spouses who will use any excuse under the sun to replace us with other women. We're the ones who have to figure out how the hell to put ourselves back together after being shattered to a million pieces by the person we trusted the most. None of our relationships are ever going to be normal again. They have a chance to get better but I'm sorry but the SO deserves the right to drive the moral compass now to protect herself. This is not some kind of kumbaya both sides compromising because they are both screwed up. This is completely one side screwed up, nuclear bombed the other side, and now has to come to grips with recovering and trying to repair the damage he made.

 

I don't envy anyone who has to deal with Betrayal Trauma and also decide how to set these boundaries and deal with what it's like to have all these emotions. I agree that in effect boundaries control, I don't think though that should be the intent of why a boundary necessarily is instilled. I think @used19 adequately expressed what makes sense to me in this thread and it's helped formulate things in my mind. I mentioned from the beginning struggling with boundaries because to me when I try to establish one I always feel like I'm setting an ultimatum. In this specific scenario of a spouse finding out their partner is cheating on them daily with P I don't blame them at all for almost everything being an ultimatum.

Like you've said in your post both parties have to work together in the end and that's what I thought made sense with the smaller things like how to navigate @YourLocalClown s bf and how to attend the meetings he enjoys while also keeping her needs in the forefront. Man that's tough to work through I'm sure. In the end he didn't tell her, and that's a big problem. I hope they are able to come to some understanding there though.

I do agree with what you are saying on the normal/healthy relationship part. However as @Psalm27:1my light says repeatedly these relationships aren't healthy because of addiction and I fully agree with her there, and have lied to myself thinking I'm compartmentalizing this. As the guilty partner though I'm striving to rectify that and know it's not easy for anyone. Maybe it's wishful thinking.

As far as the volleyball player thing I just don't see how I could move past that without just admitting I was wrong for looking. And respect that boundary because I agree with it.

Lots to think about.

 

The thing about healing is that the main person it benefits is the one who has been damaged by trauma. Carrying around resentment and being kneejerk about minor trangressions effectively reinflicts that damage upon you. It's not a good thing, it's not healthy, for the damaged person or for the relationship.

And it's not about whether the other party deserve to be forgiven, it's that forgiveness is what is required to build trust again. Naturally it is vital that the offending party needs to cease their damaging behaviour, but ultimately the damaged party needs to heal and forgive if they're going to rebuild a harmonious relationship. If you genuinely
can't see yourself having a normal relationship again, I can't fathom what the purpose of trying to reform them is. The relations some people describe in these threads sounds hellish. A permanent state of paranoia and resentment is no better a relationship than a permanent state of betrayal to my mind.

Have read through this thread and really enjoyed your contributions, definitely provoked some good discussions.

I don't think there's any problems with ultimatums if they're reasonable and I agree a history of betrayal will make more extreme ultimatums contextually reasonable. But you can't stay at the crisis point of a relationship forever. If he's not played with himself for a year but it's a blazing row because he gave a girl on the telly the eye, you're really no farther forward in terms of repairing the relationship.

I think a cause of this is that our forgiveness is not infinite, some betrayals you just can't move past. And what's tragic is when people get stuck in a situation where they can't forgive and just persevere in misery rather than walk away. And I think it's important not to remain too long in that phase of resentment lest you get stuck there. When someone makes an effort to change or to right a wrong, you have to do your best to forgive or at least scale back the alert level on the relationship. You can't remain hyper-alert to perceived infractions forever, you'll just drive both of you to distraction.

 

This explains to me that you don't really understand what betrayal trauma is. It is a form of ptsd. It is a shattering of the primary attachment system. Has anyone ever done something so horrible to you that when you get triggered and have a argument with them your brain blacks it out so you won't remember? Have you ever been in a situation where a sight or what someone says triggers you, your head starts spinning, your heart beats too fast and you think you are going to pass out? These are not knee-jerk resentments about minor transgressions. Betrayal trauma can break a spouse so badly that it will take years, if not a lifetime, to feel normal again. It can create moments where the brain goes into trauma in an attempt to prevent more harm and find safety. We get stuck with what feels like a brain injury and then have to claw our way back into a shell of the person we once were. The only way out of that hell is to rebuild safety.

Forgiveness is not needed to build trust. The offending party builds trust with actions of integrity. By not lying, by changing, by rejecting the person he was and never going back. Despite all my trauma, my marriage is now better than it has ever been because my husband is changing. Our communication is open and deep (we already discussed this thread tonight). But I will never fully trust him again in this area and he knows it. And I don't know how long it will take me to forgive him. I love him deeply but he hurt me more than anyone on this earth ever has. He has to do the hard work to show me that he can actually participate in a loving, faithful marriage. You cannot put trust and forgiveness on a timetable.

 

I am sorry, but to me it feels disrespectful and manipulating, when someone who made the damage says I should forgive him.
I know I would feel better afterwards. But tell me how do you do that? I have been wondering about it for more than 2 years and now you come and say just forgive. How do I do it when anytime he can and very probably will hurt me again (because he will forever be addicted to porn and lust)?
I am not John Paul II.

 

I understand what you're saying about trauma and PTSD, but I don't think it's as bleak as all that. I'm not saying 'just get over it', I'm saying work towards healing. I understand that that has to happen from a place of safety, I agree with that wholeheartedly. And I appreciate that you can't necessarily control well when that will happen. But I think what you can control to some extent is whether you forgive that person once progress has been made. If you can't, then I think it's a question of lingering trauma interfering with the ability to forgive.

With regards to forgiveness and trust, I can't say I agree. If you've not forgiven someone, you've got an account open against them. They've wronged you to an extent that you feel they either owe you a certain amount of good actions to offset the bad, or alternatively, you owe them bad actions to equal out what they did to you. There's no happy relationship with that kind of imbalance hanging over it. Forgiveness is necessary because no matter what he does, he can never himself do enough good to mend those wounds. At a certain point, you have to make a decision to scrap the debt. If you can't do it, then you stay stuck with the resentment and all that goes with it. And who wants that?

Yeah, me neither. There's certain things I could never forgive and would move immediately towards separation. It's all a matter of perspective. I don't think I could ever forgive actual physical infidelity. Or at the very least, I would certainly struggle to trust enough for a working relationship even if I forgave. But I don't rank porn in the same league, it would be a much easier indiscretion for me to forgive.

I think a related question to forgiveness is how you interpret the motives behind their actions. How much of the behaviour is a malicious attempt to offend against you and how much of it ultimately stems from weakness of character and failed attempts to conceal their shameful vices? To me, the latter is easier to forgive than the former. If you can recognise that the person is making genuine attempts at reforming and recovering from what is essentially an addiction, forgiveness becomes much easier.

And I think this is where trauma comes in. When people can't forgive actions that stem from weakness rather than malice, or get hung up on small subsequent infractions, it's because of the unhealed damage done to them rather than the debt incurred by the action itself. You've got to find a way to heal the psychological wounds before you can really forgive them and move on. Some of that is up to them to create a space where you feel safe, but some of it is ultimately down to your own work on yourself - whether that's fair or not. You've got to ask why the wound isn't healing, why it's lingering longer than it ought to. That's what I mean by taking steps to heal. Without that, you're stuck in a place where you still resent them for past actions and where you're very easily triggered by minor stimuli within the relationship.

 

Unfortunately a betrayed partner cannot get back to 100% trust if once recovery has started the addict relapses. And we all know that pretty much every pmo addict relapses. So, that being said, even without 100% trust, you can get to a place where you still have a a very good relationship. Both of you must acknowledge though that there will always be some level of distrust surrounding the addiction, the more you trust yourself, the more your trust will grow for them. You cannot heal without forgiveness though. It’s a poison

 

Lots of the dialogue here is reminding me of a podcast couple from Focus on the Family a non profit Christian organization from Colorado Springs. Greg and Erin Smalley are a married couple who do a marriage podcast. They use the phrase "Heart Talk" to describe the safe space where both partners can communicate openly. The first episode "how to fight fair" of their new series actually ties to this conversation I think some. This thread actually got me listening to their other shorter podcasts and I stumbled upon this new series! I think it's worth a share.

I think it's a great resource and love their content.

It is faith based but I find for someone who isn't it's probably not overbearing.

https://podcasts.focusonthefamily.com/show/crazy-little-thing-called-marriage/

 

Real Jerry Seinfeld, Eleodes, Psalm27:1my light there is hardly anything to disagree in what you wrote.
Yet, a little bit of bitter feeling remains. There seems to be a double standard regarding men and women here. When a woman (partner of a sex addict) complains about her man watching porn and all the related stuff she is expected to:
1. Be understanding and try to see it from his perspective,
2. Be supportive,
3. Forgive,
4. Work on herself etc.
When a man complains about his partner, I see a lot of empathy and no "forgive her" advice. I dont think its fair.
Regarding the cheating and what is considered cheating and what is not, I know everyone has a different opinion. For someone watching porn is not cheating, for someone else it is. There are women like me, and some others on this site, who consider porn cheating. We communicated that clearly with our partners. They agreed with us on that. They knew that if they watched porn, it would be seen as cheating. And they still did that. They knew they were cheating. You might say that cheating with porn is different than actual physical cheating with someone. Yes, if he cheated in real life, I would be much more devastated when I would find out. Yet, I am wondering, if it wouldnt be better in the long run. Now 2,5 years after I found out and after him showing me love many different ways for the past few years...it is still so hard to move on. And the hardest part being the fact that he always put porn first. There was never a time when he wouldnt watch porn. Although he loved me, he loved porn more. And now, he seems different and I am tempted to let it be, leave it in the past. But then I always realize, that this could change any time, because he will always be addicted, or, maybe, he is already just lying to me the way he did before. I can never hundred percent trust him, I can never move past his porn addiction, I will never be able to hundred percent connect with him. And I wonder...if it was an affair, if he fell in love sometime during our marriage and found out later that it was a mistake and came back to me and did all the things he does now to prove me he changed and that he loves me and is so sorry....wouldnt it be easier to go on and forgive....with all the years before the affair when I would be the only one he loved, the one he chose to live his life with, when I could look back and see that he loved me then and only me....now with the porn I cant do that, I dont look at our photos before or after wedding, or even wedding photos, because all I would see was how naive I was and how he lied to me that he loved me while lusting after thousands of other women. I dont say a real life affair would be easier. I just say I am not that sure anymore.
I definitely agree that as Christians we should forgive, not just because God said so, but because it is the best for us. I agree life without forgiving is miserable.
Meanwhile, I think no Christian should watch porn, because Jesus said so and it is best for our lives to not look at it. None of us would have to be on this site and no porn would have to be forgiven.

 

Hey there!
I just wanted to share my two cents from an addict perspective... I know there's a lot of us sharing our side but hopefully I'm not repeating what was said before. What I've learn in this journey is that recovering from the addiction is imposible without basically a 360 turn in habits and mindset, and that is something that takes time. Time and a lot of discussion and arguing with myself and with my wife lol. I am extremely lucky as I always say to have a supportive wife who suffers a great deal because of my actions. What you ladies go through it's really difficult and for that I just want to say thank you. I don't think all of us addicts in recovery approach the recovery the same way, but when I learned I couldn't stop watching porn well I just tried to go cold turkey. It didn't work because I was still the same angry and depressed dude I was while I was watching porn. It took me a while to learn the effects that porn had over my brain and mindset and then a while more to drag myself out of depression.

My wife is sticking with me through this process, we have our up's and downs, but I am now at the point where I have changed many things compared to who I was even a year ago. I don't want to make this a manifesto of my journey, though there is a reality and that is that most porn addicts have basically a screwed up brain, like our brains are physically deformed due to the constant usage. This may be of common knowledge, but the point I'm trying to make is that reversing that takes time. Relapses will happen, I am sorry but we can't recover without relapses, it's part of the process. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not giving relapses a free pass, on the contrary, they will happen but as long as it's taking as a learning experience and used for progress then it can be used as something positive.

Not trying to make a case in favor of the addict and I hope it doesn't sound that way, I guess what I'm trying to say is that if you chose to stick with your partner through it, ladies I doubt they don't love you. This is very confusing even for us, because it doesn't matter how hard we wish and think we are not going to have intrusive thoughts, we will have them, (more or less depending on the stage of the recovery your partner is) . My wife and I treat this as a sickness. When I started using as a teenager to cope with negative feelings, I didn't even think being addicted to porn could be a thing, now as an adult I want to recover and I'm constantly trying to find new ways to carry me forward, but I had to learn to love myself and what was more difficult to accept myself.

Just yesterday my wife brought something up, I went instantly in defensive mode until she said I don't want an answer I just want you to hear how I feel. Reflected on it and I think today I did a better job at listening to her, even if it was unrelated. And I think that's a big part of the problem, the spotlight shines on the addict and we seem to think that everything is about us but we forget that our families and specially partners are also affected by this. The feelings of betrayal that you guys go through are very very real and I only hope we can make it up not just by recovering but becoming better. Personally I'll be eternally greatful to my wife for showing me that she put up with my crap for no other reason than loving me. It's still work in progress, far from perfect but our life has improved a lot. If your partner is still comited and engaged in recovery, don't lose hope, but make sure your feelings and happyness are being considered as much as the recovery. It's a team effort and a team doesn't work if one raises and the other falls.

Also if you have any advice on how we can acknowledge the harm we do to you (besides the obvious no PMO) pleas do share. It's a lot harder to find anything on how to support you guys.

Best of luck!

 

Let's be honest, I think we're all a bit guilty of that. Men and women have a tendency to sympathise with the side they've been on more than the other. And I'm not sure it's because of double standards necessarily, more that men and women sometimes have different standards for how they view what's fair or ideal within a relationship. It's the whole Venus/Mars thing. Bit daft we can't all just meet in the middle but that's how we are I suppose.

I'm not saying it's invalid to be emotionally devastated or traumatised by your partner using porn or to consider it a form of cheating. I can understand why it's hurtful on a number of levels even if one doesn't regard it as cheating.

I'm really sorry it's all happened to you, it's clearly still very painful. Have you had a talk about what looking at porn meant in relation to his feelings about you? I wouldn't necessarily assume that his lusting after other women means he didn't love you. I can tell you from many years' personal experience as a man that having lustful feelings about an anonymous woman does not mean I don't love my partner or find them attractive. His behaviour may have been immoral or disrespectful towards you, but I wouldn't interpret it as indicating that his vows were false.

And as for the sentiments about forgiveness and abstaining from pornography, I agree on both fronts. Lust is a vice but so is wrath. We should follow in Christ's example of forgiveness wherever possible.

 

I'm new on here and starting to realize both from my own experience and others' that it might be best to understand your relationship is permanently destroyed, no matter how much you want it to work. Are you familiar with the Theology of the Body?