Trying hard to deal with self-loathing, sexual confusion, self-isolation, etc.

[karibmati29]

I'm a nerdy 27-year old dude who's never had any serious relationships (and afraid to get into one), can recount the few times I had sex as mostly bad memories, and for as long as I can remember I've always had a huge challenge with loving / accepting myself. After failing the 90-day hardmode challenge countless times I think I pinpointed the underlying reason of my failures. I believe the root lies in my inability to love myself, sexual confusion and seeing myself as inferior, "broken"...and therefore unfit to be romantic with anyone. I'm desperately trying to find a way to diffuse the "I'm broken" spell so that I can finally live my life to the fullest, but I'm not sure how. As a warning: my apologies if this ends up being too long and feels like I'm venting, but I really want to get this off my chest and I don't know where else to vent. I'll include a TLDR at the bottom.

I'd say that I've had issues loving/accepting myself for a looong time. Recently I've found out that my mom kept drawings that I drew when I was around 2 years old; she told me that when I would draw myself and other preschoolers from my preschool I'd draw myself smaller than the others, even though I was physically taller than most of them. She thinks it could be related to me having issues verbally communicating with people until I was 4 and subconsciously feeling inferior because of it (I didn't talk full sentences until I was 4). Also, around this age I used to beat up my preschool-mates a lot when I couldn't get eye-to-eye with them, instead of being verbal. Not sure if all this could be an indication that I was in the autistic spectrum or subconsciously had an inferiority complex; I was never professionally diagnosed. Some of my family members from my mother's side have mental- and anger management issues, so maybe this comes into play.

My foray into high-speed internet porn started too young...just after I turned 9 (back around 2001/2002). Didn't help that I stumbled upon it by accident because I googled "penis" through curiosity and the first link I clicked on was on a gay porn site. Before this time the only time I remember having any romantic or "sexual" feelings was for this girl I had a big crush on back in elementary school; I don't recall having any romantic feelings for boys before turning 9, although I did like "playing around" with other boys. As I got older I secretly kept looking at gay and straight porn (but mostly gay) and over time it turned into an addiction that up until today I haven't been able to fully shake off.

By the time I reached middle school I mostly had crushes on guys, and felt so awkward and embarrassed by it, not knowing who I could talk to about it. Also, around this time I was skinny, nerdy, sexually confused, felt like a complete outsider and started having issues with chronic sinusitis, so naturally bullying came to play and I got into 2 fights, one was with a guy-crush. By this time I felt really suicidal. I hated myself so much that I would physically harm myself and sometimes I literally ripped my face off family photos/pictures, or would take a pen and cross out my face. My parents were pretty alarmed by it. Luckily over time things got a bit better and I started making friends that were more like-minded and into the same nerdy interests as mine. I also had a couple crushes on girls but was too scared to approach them romantically, thanks to my lack of confidence and self-loathing...

Also, my sexual confusion about whether I was bi, gay or a "suppressed" straight guy continued well into my late teens and young adulthood. I feel that up to today I'm more sexually attracted to guys and more emotionally attracted to women, but I'm unsure if this will still be the case if I reach past 90 days of hardmode, hence some feelings of HOCD. Eventually I labelled myself as bi and after starting university I came out to my parents and a few friends. Thankfully they were all (seemingly) supportive, as my dad never really expressed support or discontent. Still, I feel pressured to have a family and kids because I'm only child, and my mom constantly hints at wanting a granddaughter one day (because she really wanted to have a daughter, but almost died of complications after having me and afterwards couldn't have more kids). The thing is that feel "unfit" to deal with anybody romantically right now (female or male), because of my self-loathing, lack of self-confidence and past sexual experiences. The few times I had sex (first time was when I was 16; everytime was only foreplay and oral sex) I had trouble keeping it up, and at times when I did keep it keep I couldn't climax; I ultimately helped my sexual partner climax without me climaxing. After self-diagnosing the problem as PIED I started my NoFap journey since early 2014. The second and third time I had sex and I couldn't get it up hard enough for penetration and right after sex they said they were either going to meetup with someone else or asked me to drop them off there. To me it sounded like they were going for a backup or to tell a friend how bad I was with sex...this triggered a self-diagnosed depression. Honestly I'm not entirely sure I'm out of it. So far the longest streak I maintained was 38 days, and I'm still struggling to reach 90 days.

I did work on self-improvement by working out more in the gym the last few years (I feel a bit better about my body; still unhappy about having a huge forehead tho) and last year I decided to get psychological help by visiting a therapist for a few sessions, which definitely helped. I think because of it I took the leap after my 27th birthday to finally move out from my parents into my own apartment. I'm happy she's open-minded about all of my issues, but feel a bit of disconnect knowing that she doesn't know about the NoFap, PIED, etc. Eventually I stopped going because I couldn't afford it anymore (had to pay out of pocket). Unfortunately I've isolated myself more and more from feeling like a failure at 27 when I compare myself with some of my peers (I get very anxious from using Facebook to keep up with friends, let alone Instagram) and the isolation feels even worse thanks to the COVID-19 lockdown measures.

In conclusion, I feel stuck in life knowing that I haven't been able to diffuse the self-loathing "spell" to be able to complete the 90-day hardmode challenge and stop my self-imposed social isolation, get out my apartment and meet new potential romantic partners (after the lockdown measures of course), make new friends and maintain current ones, etc. I feel hopeless at times knowing that this prevents me from living my life to its fullest potential and I'm desperately seeking a cure for this, since a self-confidence improvement "pill" doesn't exist...yet at least. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, suggestions and advice. I'm all ears.

TLDR = I believe that I've experienced an inferiority complex / self-loathing issues since I was very young and never really found a way to love/accept myself. Started with high-speed internet porn at 9 and turned into an addiction watching mostly gay porn and haven't been able to stop, even after starting my NoFap journey back in 2014. Bullying in middle school, sexual confusion, chronic sinusitis and failed sexual experiences exacerbated my feelings of self-loathing and caused depression & self-isolation. I believe all these factors are the reasons why I keep failing the 90-day hardmode challenge. Even with some self-improvement and a few therapy sessions I don't know how to shake off my feelings of self-loathing, constantly comparing myself to peers and feeling like a failure at 27. I need help.

 

[AtomicTango]

Theres a lot to unpack here, and unfortunately I dont have the time right now to reply to everything you have said as it is late where I am and I need to log off soon. I'll try to address as much as I can and get back to it when I can.

I am really unsure whether to say whether your homosexual tendencies are the result of conditioning by porn or not. I read a lot of threads like this where its obvious the person posting is straight and they are addicted to the novelty of gay porn and not the actual content of it, this is actually a very common problem a lot of people face. When I read what you wrote, there is some conflicting information I am trying to do my best to wrap my head around. On one hand this began for you when you randomly searched for something online as a kid too young to know any better, on the other hand you talk of "crushes and things like that. I cant offer direct advice because I honestly dont feel like I am qualified to, but I can tell my own story, which has some similar elements to your own.

You wrote this "I feel that up to today I'm more sexually attracted to guys and more emotionally attracted to women, but I'm unsure if this will still be the case if I reach past 90 days of hardmode, hence some feelings of HOCD." I can definitely relate to this. Before I got into porn I was very clearly into girls and was too awkward to do anything about it or even to understand my own feelings. I look back at my high school years (for the sake of clarity I was 12-16 at this time) and there were obviously girls I was attracted to, and honestly I think there were some girls who liked me back, but I was your classic "dumb guy who is oblivious to these things" and didn't notice. It was around this time I fell into the trap of porn, and this unlocked a possible bisexuality within me, much the same to yours, where my attraction to men and women was different. On one hand, my attraction to men was lust based, I could never see myself in an actual relationship with a man but the lust aspect was there. On the other hand, my attraction to women was also physical, but with a strong romantic aspect as well, I wanted the relationship with a woman, I wanted children, I wanted a wholesome loving relationship with a woman. My problem was, and I dont know why this is, my desire for that was much weaker than my lust, and I think this is where porn comes in, because this is where my story differs. I know my attraction to men is porn induced because, as of right now, I barely have it. Sure, I could masturbate to gay/bi porn if I wanted to, but thats the point, it holds no appeal to me like it once did so I dont want to. My brain has moved on to other fetishes in the mean time. All that remains is the faintest glimmer of something, and dont misunderstand, I'm not repressing it, I'm just not giving it attention, and it faded to borderline nothingness by itself.

Do you see what I'm getting at?

What I'm trying to say is, there is a possibility that your situation may actually be even closer to mine than it may have seemed at first. We both started consuming gay porn at a young age, but your case is more severe simply because you started earlier, which will, sadly, make it harder, but not impossible to shake off. Because we both watched it during this young age, we internalised what we saw and started to think we may actually be bi. Where our stories branch is you took the steps to actualise this by coming out, meanwhile I never thought it made sense to do so until I knew for sure, and that led me down the path to realising what I now know. This is generic advice to give and I generally hate it when people on this site give this advice like its a magic cure-all, because its not and I'm not going to pretend it is, but I genuinely think if you go hard mode, which is no porn, masturbation, and no sexual fantasy or anything even remotely sexual for 90 days or even longer (probably longer) you will have a much better idea of where you stand.

 

[karibmati29]

Thanks a lot for your reply AtomicTango. Yes I understand what you mean, it could very well be that my situation is indeed closer to yours, but that all that porn worked more intensely in my brain due to starting so young. I can concur too that I can visualize myself being in a long term relationship with a woman easier than with a man. However being in a relationship with a guy isn't out of the question...it's just a bit more frowned about from where I'm from, and I have a big problem thinking about what other people think, also hence the added fear of doing so. Also, I find it easier to approach guys for sex over women because I simply have way more sexual experience with guys then girls. With girls I feel like I have even more performance anxiety to be at my best, otherwise I basically failed and should forget about contacting her again, cause in my mind she'd think of me as a beta loser. I do feel that if I found a way to get over not accepting/loving myself I'd be able to complete the 90 day hardmode challenge without fault. Not sure if that just requires more therapy or not...

 

[JustAddThyme]

Hey dude,

So I read what you wrote and I feel for you.
First, before I begin I want to say I love you brother.
You are a hero for being brave enough to tell your story.
That being said lets get right to it...

Firstly,
It definitely sounds like you have a body image problem. This image of yourself that you have in your head combats with the image you see in the mirror everyday. Naturally, as humans if we see something every day it settles in and becomes a part of our routine. I know you're doing things to improve yourself and that's great but remember that change doesn't happen overnight. It takes time and commitment.
As for your forehead, if its really that much of an issue, consider plastic surgery otherwise realize that God created you in a way that He knows would be best for you for as He is the best of planners.

Secondly,
The feelings you have of being straight, bi or gay etc are all things that are running rampant in your head because you have a hard time finding yourself.
Just to be clear, this isn't about gay or straight, it's about you first understanding that until you don't truly find yourself and your mission in life (career path, whether you want a family or not, pursing a degree, accomplishing a goal, getting married, opening up a business etc) you will never find satisfaction in even 100 girls/guys coming your way.
Try doing something that will really make you not only exert your strengths but also strengthen them along the way.
Also, you've gotta cut yourself some slack man because you said you first discovered porn when you were 9.
Bro, that's a young age. Most boys don't even know that girls don't have wieners at that age (lol).
Jokes aside, you can't blame yourself for being confused at that age because kids only know what they see.
But if this is really bothering you to the extent where it's depressing you, if you're religious seek guidance through prayer and meditation if you're not religious try looking into the science and chemistry of the human brain and how that ties into faith and human behaviors.

Thirdly,
Dude, everyone is awkward af their 'first time', hell I was awkward my 2nd and 3rd with more than one partner!
No one is going to/expected to perform like a horse their first time around (and if your partner expects you to, they're also heavily impacted)
See the thing is, if we do something everyday and see something everyday it becomes a normality to us.
Remember dude, we do things like PM to escape from our routines. It becomes problematic when we start to lose sight of our routine because of our escape. (bigger sizes, hotter gf's etc)
You cant live your life for the satisfaction of others man, you have to be happy with what God gave you and know that you're that damn good. Period.
If that's not enough remember this, You've gotta love the good, bad and ugly about your life because there's ALWAYS someone wishing/praying they had your bad day.

Also I don't want to sound harsh, but it seems like you may have lost your gratefulness.
Again I don't want to hurt your feelings but, you can walk, you can talk, you can type, you have glasses but you can see, you have a penis (there are troops in our military that have served and lost ligaments/appendages) and you're over hear complaining about the size of your forehead.
C'mon dude let's get real for a second, any soldier who lost a leg serving our nation isn't saying why me, they're proud of what they did because they know that they set a goal and accomplished it.
My point is, no one is going to give your life meaning except you. You are the one whose going to have to suck it up, take a deep breath and say "Hey world this is me"

I say this with all the love and respect in the world.
Look in the mirror, look down, grab your nuts and say "I love what I see, I love who I am, I'm grateful to God for what He has bestowed on me"

Remember man, every puzzle piece goes somewhere, you just gotta look.

Hope this helps.

Keep up the good work.!

 

[AtomicTango]

However being in a relationship with a guy isn't out of the question...it's just a bit more frowned about from where I'm from, and I have a big problem thinking about what other people think, also hence the added fear of doing so. Also, I find it easier to approach guys for sex over women because I simply have way more sexual experience with guys then girls.

Wait hold on, so you are saying that the instances you talked about having sex you were having sex with other men? Am I understanding you right? I approached your post with the assumption you were sleeping with girls. If I am understanding you right, it seems like you seem to struggle staying aroused when doing this, and this reinforces my belief that you are being influenced by porn. Do you actually enjoy what you are doing when you have sex or not?

I also have to specifically address this part "I simply have way more sexual experience with guys then girls." I'm going to be blunt here, the reason for this is because men (in general, not every single man to ever live) are "in the mood" so to speak way more often than women are and more available for sex more often. This, I think, is why straight men with low self esteem gravitate towards homosexual tendencies, because it provides them an outlet to potentially get laid without the minefield of actually interacting with or seducing a woman. The simple reality is the majority of men are easier to get with than the majority of women. I dont say this to be sexist or anything, I'm male myself, I know it to be true, in my personal experience at least.

 

[Supination]

Hey there @karibmati29!
Firstable, I'd like to thank you for sharing this! You're brave!
Second, Welcome back to Nofap! I know you were here in 2014, But now you were gifted with a second chance so congratulations. It might be a bit late, but it's better late than ever. You made a good decision coming back. It shows that you've had enough and it's time for you to get serious.

Your porn addiction is mixed with low self esteem issues - Unfortunately porn came into your life at such an early age I can imagine how difficult it is growing up sexually confused, Your first porn experience was gay porn which probably shaped your brain to think this is real intimacy. We already know that porn is basically not real. Straight people watch gay porn and trans porn but they're not attracted to them in real life. And eventually you started developing the classic main symptoms of porn: PIED(That leads to performance anxiety) and HOCD which totally made your confusion worse. I believe that at some point you convinced yourself that you don't deserve to love, to be loved or to have good things in your life. "Whether you think you can or you can't you're right" - Henry Ford.

Your situation is very complex. I'm not an expert, But i've been here for two years and i suffered from sexual confusion and PIED as well(My progress has been really good but i still have things to improve) So i feel you!. I'd like to at least give you my view on your above story.

1) You must STOP watching porn AND masturbating. NOW! stop bringing problems to your life. You also have to change your attidute, Stop treating nofap like a challenge(Maybe that's why you keep failing. This and also because you don't want it enough). 90 days isn't a magical number and i promise you that 90 days isn't enough for you in order to recover in your case. You have to understand that nofap is a way of life and a chance to become a better version of yourself. You suffer from PIED. Unfortunately you developed a performance anxiety like me and many others due to PIED and maybe it helped to convince you that you're not into girls and make your HOCD worse.
The best ways to recover from it are:
A.Rewiring, Rewiring and rewiring! But only after a good amount of time of without any kind of stimulation! Having sex with a real person is crucial. Try to find a person you can trust and comfortable with! Consider sharing your performance anxiety/PIED with your partner. It will release a huge amount of pressure that eventually might destroy your anxiety!
Many and I did it and we found it very very helpful!
B. Like i said, Stop any kind of masturbation, I count every orgasm that happens without a partner as a relapse. I only allow myself to orgasm with a partner.
C. Patience, You'll probably fail at the first times but keep going! DON'T Force yourself to orgasm if you don't feel like it! patience is key.
D. Read this amazing thread by @Neurostudent.

2) You asked how to live the life to the fullest? You have to work on your low confidence and self esteem issues. Get out of your comfort zone(It'll become easier after the Covid-19). It's good that you're going to the gym! Go do the things that you've always deeply wanted but you convinced yourself you can't! Improve yourself! Continue going to the gym, Read self improvement books, Speak to girls, Learn game, Replace negative habits with positive habits and Travel! Accept that you can no longer compare yourself to others. Embrace your "Big forhead" and don't allow yourself to be upset on things you have ZERO CONTROL. Embrace the loneliness! It's OK to be lonely from time to time. It's your time to improve yourself without distractions. When you feel good being lonely you will feel better being around people, I can promise you that!
Although i said you have to rewire with a partner, I think you're still not ready for a relationship. You have to love yourself first before you can allow yourself to love someone else in order to avoid a painful relationship and save you time. Focus on your life first, And only then you can add a partner to your frame.

3) About your HOCD. It's a very popular and a sensitive topic around here Many people are battling with this case. The usual stories here are about straight men who always considered themselves as straight, Were attracted to girls romantically and physically pre porn. Your case is different though, You started consuming porn when you were only 9 years old and your first porn was gay which probably shaped your mind. You said that you had crushes on boys and you also said you were having sex with guys. So in my opinion a good solution will be by giving yourself a good amount of time of not watching porn. I Completely agree with @AtomicTango. I think Your "Coming out" was too early. You knew you had porn issues and your coming out was probably influenced by porn. I'd say 5-6 months of HARD MODE. And then but ONLY THEN ask yourself these questions, And be honest with yourself.
A) How do you truely feel after watching gay porn? Are you disgusted?
B) How do you truely feel after you had sex with a guy? Do you enjoy it?
C) Are you romantically attracted to men? Do you see yourself having a relationship with a guy?
D) Do you fear of being gay/bi? Or your only fear is people's reaction to your coming out?

I think it's great you went to a therapist you also said it helped you! But it's a shame that you didn't share Nofap and PIED with her/him. If you have enough resources, Continuing going to a therapist might be a good idea. But the success is very dependent on your cooperation!
I went to a psychotherapist as well. she used a method called Cognitive behavioral therapy ("CBT"). No doubt it was one of my best desicions. She helped me to learn how to control the HOCD.

I wish you lots of luck and success in your journey. And i Hope that eventually you'll find the peace within yourself!
Keep us updated!

 

[AtomicTango]

Hey there @karibmati29!
Firstable, I'd like to thank you for sharing this! You're brave!
Second, Welcome back to Nofap! I know you were here in 2014, But now you were gifted with a second chance so congratulations. It might be a bit late, but it's better late than ever. You made a good decision coming back. It shows that you've had enough and it's time for you to get serious.

Your porn addiction is mixed with low self esteem issues - Unfortunately porn came into your life at such an early age I can imagine how difficult it is growing up sexually confused, Your first porn experience was gay porn which probably shaped your brain to think this is real intimacy. We already know that porn is basically not real. Straight people watch gay porn and trans porn but they're not attracted to them in real life. And eventually you started develeloping the classic main consequences of porn: PIED(That leads to anxiety performances) and HOCD which totally made your confusion worse. I believe that at some point you convinced yourself that you don't deserve to love, to be loved or to have good things in your life. "Whether you think you can or you can't you're right" - Henry Ford.

Your situation is very complex. I'm not an expert, But i've been here for two years and i suffered from sexual confusion and PIED as well(My progress has been really good but i still have things to improve) So i feel you!. I'd like to at least give you my view on your above story.

1) You must STOP watching porn AND masturbating. NOW! stop bringing problems to your life. You also have to change your attidute, Stop treating nofap like a challenge(Maybe that's why you keep failing. This and also because you don't want it enough). 90 days isn't a magical number and i promise you that 90 days isn't enough for you in order to recover in your case. You have to understand that nofap is a way of life and a chance to become a better version of yourself. You suffer from PIED. Unfortunately you developed a performance anxiety like me and many others due to PIED and maybe it helped to convince you that you're not into girls and make your HOCD worse.
The best ways to recover from it are:
A.Rewiring, Rewiring and rewiring! But only after a good amount of time of without any kind of stimulation! Having sex with a real person is crucial. Try to find a person you can trust and comfortable with! Consider sharing your performance anxiety/PIED with your partner. It will release a huge amount of pressure that eventually might destroy your anxiety!
Many and I did it and we found it very very helpful!
B. Like i said, Stop any kind of masturbation, I count every orgasm that happens without a partner as a relapse. I only allow myself to orgasm with a partner.
C. Patience, You'll probably fail at the first times but keep going! DON'T Force yourself to orgasm if you don't feel like it! patience is key.
D. Read this amazing thread by @Neurostudent.

2) You asked how to live the life to the fullest? You have to work on your low confidence and self esteem issues. Get out of your comfort zone(It'll become easier after the Covid-19). It's good that you're going to the gym! Go do the things that you've always deeply wanted but you convinced yourself you can't! Improve yourself! Continue going to the gym, Read self improvement books, Speak to girls, Learn game, Replace negative habits with positive habits and Travel! Accept that you can no longer compare yourself to others. Embrace your "Big forhead" and don't allow yourself to be upset on things you have ZERO CONTROL. Embrace the loneliness! It's OK to be lonely from time to time. It's your time to improve yourself without distractions. When you feel good being lonely you will feel better being around people, I can promise you that!
Although i said you have to rewire with a partner. I think you're still not ready for a relationship. You have to love yourself first before you can allow yourself to love someone else in order to avoid a painful relationship and save you time. Focus on your life first, And only then you can add a partner to your frame.

3) About your HOCD. It's a very popular and a sensitive topic around here Many people are battling with this case. The usual stories here are about straight men who always considered themselves as straight, Were attracted to girls romantically and physically pre porn. Your case is different though, You started consuming porn when you were only 9 years old and your first porn was gay which probably shaped your mind. You said that you had crushes on boys and you also said you were having sex with guys. So in my opinion a good solution will be by giving yourself a good amount of time of not watching porn. I Completely agree with @AtomicTango. I think Your "Coming out" was too early. You knew you had porn issues and your coming out was probably influenced by porn. I'd say 5-6 months of HARD MODE. And then but ONLY THEN ask yourself these questions, And be honest with yourself.
A) How do you truely feel after watching gay porn? Are you disgusted?
B) How do you truely feel after you had sex with a guy? Do you enjoy it?
C) Are you romantically attracted to men? Do you see yourself having a relationship with a guy?
D) Do you fear of being gay/bi? Or your only fear is people's reaction to your coming out?

I think it's great you went to a therapist you also said it helped you! But it's a shame that you didn't share Nofap and PIED with her/him. If you have enough resources, Continuing going to a therapist might be a good idea. But the success is very dependend on your cooperation!
I went to a psychotherapist as well she uses a method called Cognitive behavioral therapy ("CBT"). No doubt it was one of my best the desicions. She helped me to learn how to control the HOCD.

I wish you lots of luck and success in your journey. And i Hope that eventually you'll find the peace within yourself!
Keep us updated!

I agree with all this, I dont have much to add honestly. Eagerly awaiting OP to hear what he has to say.

 

[karibmati29]

Hey guys, thanks for all your heartfelt messages. I'll start with @DontTreadOnMeNYC.

@DontTreadOnMeNYC: Thanks so much for your message and for spreading the love man. Really appreciate it. Yes, part of the issue is certainly body-issue related. Luckily I've been working on it slowly but surely by hitting the gym more often. After the gyms open back up after lockdown I'll be sure to keep hitting it. The forehead thing...honestly I did check up plastic surgery options available in the States, but after reading what you read about soldiers putting their lives on the lines while I'm here bitching about my forehead definitely puts some needed context into the picture. Don't get me wrong, I practice gratefulness as much as I can (e.g. being able-bodied & sound of mind, still having a job I can work from home & paying my bills, etc.) and really emphasize with these soldiers who fight for their country...I'm aware this is moreso a psychological issue instead of a logical one and honestly I think I just have to learn to accept it. I'll have to learn to accept it too if I get kids who inherit my forehead (lol).

Yeah, starting at 9 is just waaay too young. It was easy since I had a computer in my room back then. About how I feel with it...I knew that it was certainly much younger than the norm, but honestly I don't feel so guilty about watching it so young. I feel more guilty that instead of it being a novelty that I'd see a few times and forget about it, it turned into a full-blown addiction which I'd watch and masturbate to too much. I clearly remember a few times going on a porn marathon watching it from night till morning, and I was 15 -16 back then. Currently I'm taking a more scientific approach to solving it, understanding how the brain works in causing this addiction and why it's so hard to shake off, compared to e.g. a drug or food addiction.

And true, first and second times are very rarely as "perfect" as porn vids, and I'm aware of this too. I think the thing that really triggered the last bout of depression was that right after I had/attempted sex the second and third time and couldn't perform almost immediately afterwards my partners would ask me to drop them off by a "friend" or they would take a bus to go to another "friend". In my mind it messed me up because they never told me beforehand about this "friend" they were going to visit after our intercourse, and I thought they were going to have sex with a backup who COULD perform or were going to a friend to gossip about how bad I was. The last time that happened I just felt so worthless that I actually apologized to my partner and minimized contact with them, even though they might have wanted to keep in contact in me. Even if they did, in my mind I didn't perform as I should and therefore I'm worthless / a loser / not love-able, etc. A form of perfectionism could also explain this, along with the self-loathing I had related to self-image, chronic sinusitis, etc.

 

[karibmati29]

@AtomicTango: Thanks for your message man. I do my best to write my sexual experiences using non-gendered pronouns for the reason being that...yes...they were all guys (I don't like admitting this to anyone, so far I've only told my therapist about it, but f*ck it I need to let this out). Sorry if I made it sound like I was talking solely about girls but nah it was all guys (I can already sense the cringe levels of those reading this rising...no worries I understand).

I definitely relate with you saying that "men (in general, not every single man to ever live) are "in the mood" so to speak way more often than women are and more available for sex more often". No need to be politically correct about it, it's simply true. I've experienced it first hand as well. In that regard I feel more comfortable approaching guys and having sex with guys. The closest "sexual" experience I had with a girl was kissing and holding hands, which I think barely counts as "experience" as a 27 year old. I'd like to approach girls as well, but the main reasons I feel are blocking me from doing so are 1). I'm currently more sexually attracted to guys than girls, however I can still get an erection from them...not as long lasting as with guys tho, and 2). as I stated earlier I feel "With girls I feel like I have even more performance anxiety to be at my best...". Yeah, it sounds like the best thing I can do really is do the 90+ day PMO reset to see if my sexual attraction levels with remain the same with both guys and girls or not. My biggest challenge right now is breaking the barrier to complete 90+ days fully...but I feel that in order to do that I have to learn to love/accept myself for who I am first, otherwise I'll keep thinking subconsciously "Ah forget it, who's gonna want to have sex or be in a relationship with a dude who can't perform, has little experience and has chronic sinusitis to boot...j u s t e n j o y y o u r s e l f...".

 

[Deleted Account]

I'm a nerdy 27-year old dude who's never had any serious relationships (and afraid to get into one), can recount the few times I had sex as mostly bad memories, and for as long as I can remember I've always had a huge challenge with loving / accepting myself. After failing the 90-day hardmode challenge countless times I think I pinpointed the underlying reason of my failures. I believe the root lies in my inability to love myself, sexual confusion and seeing myself as inferior, "broken"...and therefore unfit to be romantic with anyone. I'm desperately trying to find a way to diffuse the "I'm broken" spell so that I can finally live my life to the fullest, but I'm not sure how. As a warning: my apologies if this ends up being too long and feels like I'm venting, but I really want to get this off my chest and I don't know where else to vent. I'll include a TLDR at the bottom.

I'd say that I've had issues loving/accepting myself for a looong time. Recently I've found out that my mom kept drawings that I drew when I was around 2 years old; she told me that when I would draw myself and other preschoolers from my preschool I'd draw myself smaller than the others, even though I was physically taller than most of them. She thinks it could be related to me having issues verbally communicating with people until I was 4 and subconsciously feeling inferior because of it (I didn't talk full sentences until I was 4). Also, around this age I used to beat up my preschool-mates a lot when I couldn't get eye-to-eye with them, instead of being verbal. Not sure if all this could be an indication that I was in the autistic spectrum or subconsciously had an inferiority complex; I was never professionally diagnosed. Some of my family members from my mother's side have mental- and anger management issues, so maybe this comes into play.

My foray into high-speed internet porn started too young...just after I turned 9 (back around 2001/2002). Didn't help that I stumbled upon it by accident because I googled "penis" through curiosity and the first link I clicked on was on a gay porn site. Before this time the only time I remember having any romantic or "sexual" feelings was for this girl I had a big crush on back in elementary school; I don't recall having any romantic feelings for boys before turning 9, although I did like "playing around" with other boys. As I got older I secretly kept looking at gay and straight porn (but mostly gay) and over time it turned into an addiction that up until today I haven't been able to fully shake off.

By the time I reached middle school I mostly had crushes on guys, and felt so awkward and embarrassed by it, not knowing who I could talk to about it. Also, around this time I was skinny, nerdy, sexually confused, felt like a complete outsider and started having issues with chronic sinusitis, so naturally bullying came to play and I got into 2 fights, one was with a guy-crush. By this time I felt really suicidal. I hated myself so much that I would physically harm myself and sometimes I literally ripped my face off family photos/pictures, or would take a pen and cross out my face. My parents were pretty alarmed by it. Luckily over time things got a bit better and I started making friends that were more like-minded and into the same nerdy interests as mine. I also had a couple crushes on girls but was too scared to approach them romantically, thanks to my lack of confidence and self-loathing...

Also, my sexual confusion about whether I was bi, gay or a "suppressed" straight guy continued well into my late teens and young adulthood. I feel that up to today I'm more sexually attracted to guys and more emotionally attracted to women, but I'm unsure if this will still be the case if I reach past 90 days of hardmode, hence some feelings of HOCD. Eventually I labelled myself as bi and after starting university I came out to my parents and a few friends. Thankfully they were all (seemingly) supportive, as my dad never really expressed support or discontent. Still, I feel pressured to have a family and kids because I'm only child, and my mom constantly hints at wanting a granddaughter one day (because she really wanted to have a daughter, but almost died of complications after having me and afterwards couldn't have more kids). The thing is that feel "unfit" to deal with anybody romantically right now (female or male), because of my self-loathing, lack of self-confidence and past sexual experiences. The few times I had sex (first time was when I was 16; everytime was only foreplay and oral sex) I had trouble keeping it up, and at times when I did keep it keep I couldn't climax; I ultimately helped my sexual partner climax without me climaxing. After self-diagnosing the problem as PIED I started my NoFap journey since early 2014. The second and third time I had sex and I couldn't get it up hard enough for penetration and right after sex they said they were either going to meetup with someone else or asked me to drop them off there. To me it sounded like they were going for a backup or to tell a friend how bad I was with sex...this triggered a self-diagnosed depression. Honestly I'm not entirely sure I'm out of it. So far the longest streak I maintained was 38 days, and I'm still struggling to reach 90 days.

I did work on self-improvement by working out more in the gym the last few years (I feel a bit better about my body; still unhappy about having a huge forehead tho) and last year I decided to get psychological help by visiting a therapist for a few sessions, which definitely helped. I think because of it I took the leap after my 27th birthday to finally move out from my parents into my own apartment. I'm happy she's open-minded about all of my issues, but feel a bit of disconnect knowing that she doesn't know about the NoFap, PIED, etc. Eventually I stopped going because I couldn't afford it anymore (had to pay out of pocket). Unfortunately I've isolated myself more and more from feeling like a failure at 27 when I compare myself with some of my peers (I get very anxious from using Facebook to keep up with friends, let alone Instagram) and the isolation feels even worse thanks to the COVID-19 lockdown measures.

In conclusion, I feel stuck in life knowing that I haven't been able to diffuse the self-loathing "spell" to be able to complete the 90-day hardmode challenge and stop my self-imposed social isolation, get out my apartment and meet new potential romantic partners (after the lockdown measures of course), make new friends and maintain current ones, etc. I feel hopeless at times knowing that this prevents me from living my life to its fullest potential and I'm desperately seeking a cure for this, since a self-confidence improvement "pill" doesn't exist...yet at least. I'm curious to hear your thoughts, suggestions and advice. I'm all ears.

TLDR = I believe that I've experienced an inferiority complex / self-loathing issues since I was very young and never really found a way to love/accept myself. Started with high-speed internet porn at 9 and turned into an addiction watching mostly gay porn and haven't been able to stop, even after starting my NoFap journey back in 2014. Bullying in middle school, sexual confusion, chronic sinusitis and failed sexual experiences exacerbated my feelings of self-loathing and caused depression & self-isolation. I believe all these factors are the reasons why I keep failing the 90-day hardmode challenge. Even with some self-improvement and a few therapy sessions I don't know how to shake off my feelings of self-loathing, constantly comparing myself to peers and feeling like a failure at 27. I need help.

Meditate meditate meditate

 

[karibmati29]

@Nadav_co : Thanks so much for your message and pointers! Thanks for the second welcome as well, I felt like this time I needed to finally get this out my chest.

Yeah it's annoyingly very complex. I think even my therapist had a hard time trying to unravel it all. Actually I did tell her about the NoFap and PIED, and she took notes so that's good. Not sure if she really followed up about it though, but that's beside the point. You're right, at the end of the day I have to be in control about it.

Your pointers are definitely on-point (pun intended). My attitude has been to perpetually see this as a challenge, but as you said I shouldn't and maybe the best approach would be to take this one day at a time, so not by seeing a day. I'm using the Rewire Companion app to track my progress, but maybe I should leave it alone and focus more on seeing this as a daily goal (like reading an hour a day, for example). I'll also follow up on the thread you mentioned by @Neurostudent

Point #2 is certainly easier said than done...I've got the gym part covered more or less and luckily I had the privilege of traveling around the world a few times with a good (girl)friend of mine, but the part of going out there and speaking to girls, learning about game, etc is definitely a challenge. I'm an introvert by heart and because of my self-loathing I feel too much inclined to self-isolate, due to fearing what other peers around my age are going to see me for, i.e. being too nerdy/weird or weird for not having a girlfriend, etc. I feel your quote "You have to love yourself first before you can allow yourself to love someone else" and comparing myself to others is really the crux of my issue, and that's preventing me from mostly everything. No point in being in a relationship with someone who hates him/herself.

About Point #3: Maybe HOCD isn't be best term to explain what I feel about labeling myself as part of the "LGBT" spectrum. I don't necessarily have a problem with labeling myself as bi; I think the anxiety lies more in me actually being more gay instead of bi or a suppressed straight dude (considering the possibility that sexuality can be fluid, based on the Kinsey scale). I can still be bi and have a family with kids, however it's much harder finding a woman who's comfortable being with a bi guy, same as I can imagine for some straight guys dating a bi woman. It's more a fear of mine that if I undergo the 5-6 months of hard mode that I'll still end up more sexually attracted to guys than women. As I told @AtomicTango previously now I can still achieve an erection looking at a naked women, but the erection will certainly not last as long as with a dude. If this attraction remains the same after 5-6 months of hard mode I think it will have big implications about who I should be romantically inclined with, since I don't want to live a lie and make the woman I end up in a relationship with suffer.

About the questions you asked:
A: I actually do not feel disgusted watching gay sex, same as with straight sex.
B: I do enjoy it. However if I have sex with a woman I'd be able to tell whether I felt better with e woman or a guy, since I currently only have real sexual experience with guys (as I told @AtomicTango in a previous response)
C: Not as much as with a woman. I will say that I acknowledge it's more socially acceptable to be in a relationship with a woman, and as an only child I feel pressured to do so, since my parents would really want me to (to keep the family name) and personally I feel better doing so as well.
D: I don't fear being bi, but being gay moreso, since it's not so socially acceptable from where I'm from (my country is highly Roman Catholic & Protestant, however the immigrant Dutch who live here are more accepting of it)

If I can afford to go to the same or different therapist I'll ask if I can request specifically CBT! And thanks, I'll do my best to keep you all updated. I've included a No PMO tally to keep track of my progress.

 

[karibmati29]

Meditate meditate meditate

Yeah I need to look more into doing this. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Deleted Account]

Yeah I need to look more into doing this. Thanks for the advice!

You seem motivated and determined to change. I'm not worried about you.

But there's one important thing to understand. The efforts you'll make won't bring you peace. Taking action with this feeling of inferiority that you describe will only bring you frustration and unhappiness. Your adventure will be more of a struggle than a personal fulfillment.

At the moment, you don't see very clearly and I understand you completely. I've been in your case. Despite my young age. It's as if you can only see the clouds and the storm without taking the time to look at what's behind it. You're more than you think of yourself. You're just not looking in the right place.

The answer isn't out there. It's not by making all this effort that you'll be happy and fulfilled. That you'll have fulfilling relationships with girls.

The answer is already there. Within you. There's no point in pursuing your dreams until you're at peace with yourself. And the best way to find peace is to meditate. Very regularly. Every single day.

What you think about yourself are just beliefs you've accumulated over the years. These beliefs will not disappear by working on yourself. By approaching girls, by working out, by practicing nofap. It's more complicated and deeper but at the same time simpler than that. You have to look deep inside yourself, find the real source of these beliefs.

Meditation is the key to any person who wishes to blossom in his life. Right now, you have no idea who you really are. And until you know who you really are deep down inside, you can't claim to be better off. Least of all by pursuing desires.

We reflect what we think of ourselves to the world around us. Until we have done a big cleanup, all we will do will bring us nothing but frustration and unhappiness. With the feeling of never having enough and always being inferior to others.
I was in the exact same situation as you. I had a lot of beliefs that prevented it from being authentic, from being free. Meditation totally changed my perception of the world.

Now I wonder how I could have hated myself so much.
Personal development is not about achieving perfection or satisfying desires. It's about loving and caring for yourself as you would care for your own child. Both in our actions and in what we think of ourselves. It goes much deeper than that. The answer lies within us.

I know all this because two years ago I made a decision to approach girls I liked on the street. It didn't bring me peace. Despite all these efforts. Worse, I haven't had a single fulfilling relationship. Until I started meditating and realized how much I hated myself. Even though I was working much harder than everyone else.

I wish you the best my friend

 

[AtomicTango]

@AtomicTango: Thanks for your message man. I do my best to write my sexual experiences using non-gendered pronouns for the reason being that...yes...they were all guys (I don't like admitting this to anyone, so far I've only told my therapist about it, but f*ck it I need to let this out). Sorry if I made it sound like I was talking solely about girls but nah it was all guys (I can already sense the cringe levels of those reading this rising...no worries I understand).

No judgement here, it just makes it easier to assess your situation. There is a possibility that if you were able to overcome the anxiety then sex with women would be relatively easy, you cant really know until you do it I suppose. Maybe the reason you find it hard to get aroused with men is because you arent really attracted to them, and you just THINK you are, through years of conditioning. The inability to become easily aroused may be a sign your body is rejecting what you are doing on a primal physical level. I know you said you had crushes on men but the more I think about it the less I think this really means that much. You may only consider a relationship with a man something you want because you have conditioned yourself to think that way, it may be a limiting belief in the same way your inferiority complex is.

I may be completely off base of course but the best way to find out is a LOOONG hard mode streak where you jump head first into productive things that make you feel better about yourself and give you pride and purpose.

I definitely relate with you saying that "men (in general, not every single man to ever live) are "in the mood" so to speak way more often than women are and more available for sex more often". No need to be politically correct about it, it's simply true. I've experienced it first hand as well. In that regard I feel more comfortable approaching guys and having sex with guys. The closest "sexual" experience I had with a girl was kissing and holding hands, which I think barely counts as "experience" as a 27 year old. I'd like to approach girls as well, but the main reasons I feel are blocking me from doing so are 1). I'm currently more sexually attracted to guys than girls, however I can still get an erection from them...not as long lasting as with guys tho, and 2). as I stated earlier I feel "With girls I feel like I have even more performance anxiety to be at my best...". Yeah, it sounds like the best thing I can do really is do the 90+ day PMO reset to see if my sexual attraction levels with remain the same with both guys and girls or not. My biggest challenge right now is breaking the barrier to complete 90+ days fully...but I feel that in order to do that I have to learn to love/accept myself for who I am first, otherwise I'll keep thinking subconsciously "Ah forget it, who's gonna want to have sex or be in a relationship with a dude who can't perform, has little experience and has chronic sinusitis to boot...j u s t e n j o y y o u r s e l f...".

I need some clarification here. Do you find it easy to become aroused with men or not? There is some conflicting stuff in your different posts. I'll use the info you give me to formulate my next response, I dont want to jump the gun without all the context.

 

[karibmati29]

You seem motivated and determined to change. I'm not worried about you.

But there's one important thing to understand. The efforts you'll make won't bring you peace. Taking action with this feeling of inferiority that you describe will only bring you frustration and unhappiness. Your adventure will be more of a struggle than a personal fulfillment.

At the moment, you don't see very clearly and I understand you completely. I've been in your case. Despite my young age. It's as if you can only see the clouds and the storm without taking the time to look at what's behind it. You're more than you think of yourself. You're just not looking in the right place.

The answer isn't out there. It's not by making all this effort that you'll be happy and fulfilled. That you'll have fulfilling relationships with girls.

The answer is already there. Within you. There's no point in pursuing your dreams until you're at peace with yourself. And the best way to find peace is to meditate. Very regularly. Every single day.

What you think about yourself are just beliefs you've accumulated over the years. These beliefs will not disappear by working on yourself. By approaching girls, by working out, by practicing nofap. It's more complicated and deeper but at the same time simpler than that. You have to look deep inside yourself, find the real source of these beliefs.

Meditation is the key to any person who wishes to blossom in his life. Right now, you have no idea who you really are. And until you know who you really are deep down inside, you can't claim to be better off. Least of all by pursuing desires.

We reflect what we think of ourselves to the world around us. Until we have done a big cleanup, all we will do will bring us nothing but frustration and unhappiness. With the feeling of never having enough and always being inferior to others.
I was in the exact same situation as you. I had a lot of beliefs that prevented it from being authentic, from being free. Meditation totally changed my perception of the world.

Now I wonder how I could have hated myself so much.
Personal development is not about achieving perfection or satisfying desires. It's about loving and caring for yourself as you would care for your own child. Both in our actions and in what we think of ourselves. It goes much deeper than that. The answer lies within us.

I know all this because two years ago I made a decision to approach girls I liked on the street. It didn't bring me peace. Despite all these efforts. Worse, I haven't had a single fulfilling relationship. Until I started meditating and realized how much I hated myself. Even though I was working much harder than everyone else.

I wish you the best my friend

@Shivy490, what you said is pretty profound. Thanks a lot man, I do appreciate it. Meditation could be the missing key to "find myself" more, which in turn will allow me to finally accept & love myself. Here I am thinking I know myself fully, but in truth it's filled with half-truths and lies.

What meditation resources do you recommend I look into?

 

[karibmati29]

No judgement here, it just makes it easier to assess your situation. There is a possibility that if you were able to overcome the anxiety then sex with women would be relatively easy, you cant really know until you do it I suppose. Maybe the reason you find it hard to get aroused with men is because you arent really attracted to them, and you just THINK you are, through years of conditioning. The inability to become easily aroused may be a sign your body is rejecting what you are doing on a primal physical level. I know you said you had crushes on men but the more I think about it the less I think this really means that much. You may only consider a relationship with a man something you want because you have conditioned yourself to think that way, it may be a limiting belief in the same way your inferiority complex is.

I may be completely off base of course but the best way to find out is a LOOONG hard mode streak where you jump head first into productive things that make you feel better about yourself and give you pride and purpose.



I need some clarification here. Do you find it easy to become aroused with men or not? There is some conflicting stuff in your different posts. I'll use the info you give me to formulate my next response, I dont want to jump the gun without all the context.

Sorry if I made it sound confusing. To clarify: I'm currently more sexually attracted to men than women. I can still get an erection from seeing naked women, but with men the sensation is stronger and longer lasting. With women I feel more a longing to be in a romantic relationship than to have sex with her.

Yeah as @Nadav_co pointed out, I will probably need to do a hardmode of 5-6 months to really find out. This sounds insane, but I have nothing to lose and will need to do it anyway to truly find out if my sexual attraction changes or...stays the same.

 

[AtomicTango]

Sorry if I made it sound confusing. To clarify: I'm currently more sexually attracted to men than women. I can still get an erection from seeing naked women, but with men the sensation is stronger and longer lasting. With women I feel more a longing to be in a romantic relationship than to have sex with her.

Right, what I now want to ask is this, sorry if it sounds if I'm asking the same thing over and over but I'm trying to narrow down as much as I can.

You are more sexually attracted to men than women, but what is the CONTEXT of your arousal? Are you becoming aroused to men in directly sexual situations, ie you are there in the room with them? What about women? Could you become aroused to a man or woman you found attractive who was a real person and not in a video or porn image? The reason I ask this is because becoming aroused to one thing in reality and becoming aroused to another via porn are different things, very, VERY different things.

 

[Supination]

Hey @karibmati29! You mentioned that you went to a therapist and you found it very helpful. I'm very interested in hearing what was your therapist opinion on your situation. Did he diagnose you with something? Did he confirm that HOCD is what you're having?

 

[karibmati29]

Right, what I now want to ask is this, sorry if it sounds if I'm asking the same thing over and over but I'm trying to narrow down as much as I can.

You are more sexually attracted to men than women, but what is the CONTEXT of your arousal? Are you becoming aroused to men in directly sexual situations, ie you are there in the room with them? What about women? Could you become aroused to a man or woman you found attractive who was a real person and not in a video or porn image? The reason I ask this is because becoming aroused to one thing in reality and becoming aroused to another via porn are different things, very, VERY different things.

OK I see where you're getting at. In my case I get aroused both watching men or women on screen AND in real life. So it doesn't matter if I see a sexy woman or man on screen or in real life, I'll get aroused, like I experienced a few times at the gym. With porn the level of arousal is highest with gay porn, a little less with straight porn, and barely non-existent with lesbian or transgender porn. If it's like a solo video of either a man or women the level of arousal will be the same if I saw the same exact person in real life.

 

[karibmati29]

Hey @karibmati29! You mentioned that you went to a therapist and you found it very helpful. I'm very interested in hearing what was your therapist opinion on your situation. Did he diagnose you with something? Did he confirm that HOCD is what you're having?

Hi @Nadav_co, yes I spoke to the therapist about it, but she did not know anything about it. Honestly it's hard finding therapists who understand these kind of things from where I'm from in the Caribbean. I had to explain to her about what NoFap is, PIED, a bit about HOCD, etc. Basically her point of view is that I should basically do what works in my best interest (in terms of me living my life as a bisexual) and not worry about what anybody thinks about me, but yeah that feels like a very generic therapy approach, not really a solution to the years of self-loathing. Maybe it would be easier finding an online therapist in the USA who's at least knowledgeable about NoFap. Are you aware of any that I could approach?