Replaced by teen girls

Discussion in 'Partner Support' started by Lilla_My, Feb 1, 2019.

  1. NF4L

    NF4L Fapstronaut

    She did neither of these. Perhaps there was an ultimatum in there that I needed to change. But fundamentally she offered her support. It required me to see that I had a problem and admit it. The secret had to come out, the lying had to stop. Perhaps in your husbands case the stonewalling or avoidance is what he has to overcome. Your challenge to have him find recovery on his own is to break through that. I was similar in that regard and was an expert at clamming up, or walking away. I can say what gave me the tools to recover with my wife was utilizing what we learned by working through the book,” the 7 principles of making marriage work” published by the gottman institute. We worked on this 4 years before, after I disclosed about a one night stand I had. She knew I had a P problem then, but I was unwilling to see it or admit it.
     
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  2. One comment about ultimatums: for me, 2 DDay's (August 2016) .. my wife gave me an ultimatum, "Fix your porn problem or I'm leaving you."

    Sadly, I did not seek any outside help--I did stop PM'ing for over 3 months...I thought I was HEALED/FIXED! But my wife knew that I wasn't...the simple fact that I did _not_ reach out for help and thought I could fix it on my own--she knew my stoppage was temporary..and she was right.

    So ultimatums are good...but my personal opinion is you have to look at how the PA reacts:
    1. do they accept the fact that they are a porn addict
    2. do they reach out for help? this online forum is a good start? best case scenario is reaching out to another person they trust and ask for help (a good friend, counselor, pastor, someone)

    If a PA does not do those two things..I question if their recovery is real -- even if they THINK it is real...it may not be.
     
  3. letter

    letter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Hey @Lilla_My

    What a horrible thing you have been though :(

    I’m familiar with many kinds of twisted abuse, so I want to say to you that you are beautiful and worthy of love. It’s the abuse that can make us feel ugly and worthless.

    I haven’t read everything here, I’ve only really read your initial story, so if my words confirm what others have been saying then let it be a confirmation to you. From what I see of what you said, this man has issues that extend far beyond pornography. Look at the way he initially treated you, let’s take his word that he wasn’t in PMO then. Even back then, his love for you was abusive. You had to joke about what should have been a blessedly special intimacy as him performing a chore. That, to me, is a big sign saying there was something wrong even before porn entered the mix.

    Let me say this another way, it’ll hurt to hear but it’ll help. You know what you should have heard?

    Baby, I love being with you.

    You are so hot, I can hardly concentrate on work right now. I think I may need to take a long lunch today, don’t even bother making me a sandwich...we aren’t going to waste a moment eating.

    I can’t believe how lucky I am to be with a woman like you in bed, I never thought I could be THIS happy. You’re like a drug, and I can’t get enough of you.

    You catch my drift? It’s so much like you had to joke as you did because you were missing this part of romance. As a man, there is NO WAY I would not do everything I could to make sure my beloved wife knew deeply just how much I love her, in every way possible. I say this because it is the way of love, men should love like this (in their own way ofc) but it always should happen in a way where the other person FEELS loved. DEEPLY — every part of them..

    The absence of that and the replacement of it with jokes, bless you for trying, are so telling to me of something gone horribly wrong with this man. I don’t judge him, for all I know he could have been molested as a child. I’ve been through similar and know how those experiences made my own love cold.

    But let me make you a contrast. Because I knew how messed up I was, I stayed away from women because I knew that I would only hurt them. I spent years making sure my horrible past was redeemed before ever considering marrying a woman. You shouldn’t have to suffer for our pain. You suffer enough to give birth.

    He probably just wasn’t blessed with the same self-awareness I was. Maybe he was, and just didn’t have the strength to resist you. Whatever the case may be, I don’t judge the man...but the reality he has left you with needs a wise answer to address.

    I humbly submit to you that you need some time apart so that you can see through eyes unclouded by abuse. Consider doing therapeutic things in this time. Have someone guide you if needed. When you’re feeling better, you’ll be able to make better decisions. Please go and take care of yourself?

    Here’s to you :)
     
  4. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    That is a rebellious character flaw and the problem lies in the person being given the ultimatum, not the person giving the ultimatum. It's not the ultimatum that is the issue, but the hard, stubborn heart of the one resisting.

    I fully agree that boundaries are necessary, but sometimes, so are ultimatums. What the person being given the ultimatum does with that is on them. In either case, they choose the consequences and have full responsibility for the outcome.
     
  5. 0111zerozero11

    0111zerozero11 Fapstronaut

    Yup.
     
  6. Mordobarn

    Mordobarn Fapstronaut

    This is true, and present in many people. I know that I've suffered from this knee-jerk reaction in the past.

    Sometimes, the origin can be a rebellion against an over-strict upbringing; in some cases, it's a false pride (in my experience, usually but not always held my men), whereby admitting that someone else has a better idea is perceived (by the holder) as a dangerous sign of weakness. There are, of course, other possible reasons.

    When a person experiences that rebellious feeling, the correct approach is to ask yourself, "Where does this feeling originate, and what can I do about it instead?"

    I understand the reason why @GhostWriter avoids ultimatums: When using an ultimatum, some partners will just up and leave instead of co-operating and healing. Maybe that's what's needed sometimes, but other times it's better to get the partner's co-operation.
    OK @GhostWriter , here's an ultimatum for you. Do not, under any circumstances, figure out your rebellious nature and replace it with a more helpful approach :D
     
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  7. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    Thank you so much for your response. I'm pretty certain that pornography was a big part of his life even before I entered it, but I truly felt loved and cared of then; I felt his interest in me physically and emotionally. With time this faded away and what's left is just pain and abandonment. The last part you wrote, about being away and see his abuse more clearly, is really resonating with me. I have been away from him two days now (he doesn't even bother to call) and maybe this is what I need. Again, thanks for your kind words.
     
  8. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    Let me just give you a huge LOL. You pretend that I dont exist by not responding to me directly, yet you continue to respond directly to things I say just not directly to me by not quoting me or hitting reply to my posts. That is not ignoring me. It's so funny that a litte ol' SO of a PA has struck such a raw nerve with you because I am not vulnerable enough for you to patronize me or boss me around. Instead, I have put you in your place when you have let your real self loose, in pure temper and anger. But you conveniently delete those after, so that no one can go back and see you for who you really are. Like the one where you berated a mod for simply moving your thread to a different forum or when you blatantly attacked me on Father's Day after gently trying to give you the other side of the coin when a daughter feels she has no choice but to cut off communication with her father. Yes, I have screenshots of that one.

    So dont sit here and get holier than thou and act like you ignore me when you very clearly don't, considering you do respond to nearly everything I say. I also know about what you say about me in private messages because people tell me.

    I have supported things you said, hit the like button many times, and often just said nothing whether in favor or against. I speak up when I feel something needs to be said, regardless of who says it. You just happen to say a whole hell of a lot more than anyone else. I don't follow your posts around, it's just that the relationship forums are pretty much the only forums I go to, except for the private spouses group and the occasional journal. It also just so happens that you write novels on 80% of the threads here.

    For the record, someone messaged me about what I wrote to you above about the character flaw and my response was that I feel that way no matter who says it and I would have responded as such. It's an immature response and the person being given the ultimatum is fully responsible for any consequence to their response, immature or otherwise.

    Also for the record, I completely agree with you that boundaries and consequences are the first line of defense and are for protection. I think we have always agreed on that - and many other things. Ultimatums should be used as a last resort and sparingly. But sometimes they must be.

    All that said, either ignore me or don't. I dont care. I will respond to you and anyone else as I see fit. You act so threatened by a little wifey and yet keep trying to pretend you aren't. You keep telling yourself and everyone else that you ignore me and dont actually care about the things I say and keep trying to prove it by responding to others about what I've said, but not actually to me. We see right through you.

    Enjoy your day, GW.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2019
    hope4healing and 0111zerozero11 like this.
  9. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    As you so eloquently pointed out, this is a big issue. I've tried ultimatums so many times ("I'll leave if you don't change") and here I am, not leaving, with him behaving worse than ever. Its always me that comes crawling back. I'm sick of him, and now sick of me too.
     
  10. letter

    letter Distinguished Fapstronaut

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    Aye. Right now I’m out alone in the woods, similarly taking my time and space to be away from abuse. I’m on week #3 and feeling better and better everyday, but you know...it still feels like I have further to go.

    Just saying, take whatever time you need. No shame in that! You can even be like, “Hey look, I know a full grown man who needed longer than I” :)

    I’m so happy that you’re taking this leap, may you find yourself again...the you who shines majestically beneath all the hurt. You’re still there, still bright & beautiful. You’re just under a heavy blanket is all ;) come on out when you feel ready, until then we’re here to help you however we can.
     
  11. Check out the book The Betrayal Bond.
     
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  12. Mordobarn

    Mordobarn Fapstronaut

    Never give an ultimatum unless you are absolutely committed to carrying it through. If you give an ultimatum ("This time, I'm really leaving if you do it again"), be sure that you already have in place a plan, a place to go, and the wherewithal to cope. Someone as loyal as you needs a man who is equally loyal, so don't go crawling back.
     
  13. EyesWideOpen

    EyesWideOpen Fapstronaut

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    This is absolutely key. The same goes for boundaries (and really anything that you set up a consequence for). You have to be willing to follow through with the consequence put in place or any ultimatum or boundary you give is completely useless. And they know it too, so they just keep doing what they are doing.

    @Lilla_My You are stronger than you feel right now. And you have the people here to help support you. You can do this.
     
  14. yousuff

    yousuff Fapstronaut

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    Very well written.

    You verbalized your pain from being with a porn addict, I can relate with your emotion, but not from the perspective of woman but man.

    I have been struggling with PMO since I am 15, now I am 29. I went to University, finished my degree, I met an amazing woman in my class. She proposed me to date (very unusual and bravery in my society). I politely refused her because I didn't see any future with her with me struggling with PMO. And my judgement was I didn't want to see her in pain, broken like you when she discovered my addiction, which she , I was pretty sure, discover it anyhow. She was smart.

    So she went on with her life, left the country for her PhD, finished the PhD in AI/ML with flying colors, now works in the most prestigious tech company. Married now, and have kids, enjoy six digits salary in Bay area, SF.

    Am I sad now? No, I rather feel glad that I let her go, & refused her. If I did responded her proposal positively she might, in the meantime, posts on NoFap asking for help just the way you are seeking. Trust me I am pretty proud of myself because of it.

    From the very young age I developed a trait that I don't want to see myself as the source of pain in someone else. I would rather take physical hurt than emotional one because anodyne can easily relieve physical pain than emotional one.

    And seeing someone else in pain because of me is one of the reasons I am still single, I would gladly stay as single in rest of my life till I completely get rid of my demons.

    I wish you would find your husband the way you did when you first met him.
     
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  15. Jane elise

    Jane elise Fapstronaut

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    I have no words to say I can understand your feelings I am feeling so sad that PMO has destroyed a beautiful loyal husband he needs to get rid of this addiction
     
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  16. melonka

    melonka Fapstronaut

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    After reading that thing about a Valentine's Day I have to say... Fuck porn addiction, that's not the major problem at all. And you still didn't mention what exactly do you mean by getting phisical just 'it wasn't that bad'.
    Men who have problems with controling anger but are good in heart and try their best will hit the wall. Smash the desk. Kick the door. But not an innocent human and not expensive objects which can get easily destroyed.

    My husband is pa, but if he would hit me even once or make something planned to upset me my whole love would disappear in a second and transfer to cold 'well, somehow I landed with a dangerous man, who knows a lot about me and I he is hostile to me. I need to play it cool and get out of here and cover traces so he can't find me'.
    That is something very different than a 'normal' pa, who have his problems, is too egoistic too see that it hurts other people and just needs eye opener that he got lost. Your man choses the wrong. Not got confused and can't find way back. And he knows it.

    Don't even hesitate. I would recommend it even if you would have children with him cause he is just dangerous man, not confused boy who likes to live in his fantasies like most here.
     
  17. Advocate109

    Advocate109 Fapstronaut

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    So, theres not much wrong with him watching porn and masturbating (some in this group may say otherwise but it isnt true). There is an issue with him messaging other girls and getting physical with you and not caring to you emotionally or sexually. Or pretending that hes not sexual and using his "unwanted" erection on a screen instead of his wife(which MAY be from PA, but his issues go way beyond PA). My advice would be to leave him because of the violence and emotional neglect. Thats just no way to treat someone.
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2019
  18. Lilla_My

    Lilla_My Fapstronaut

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    Actually, there is. Once you see what porn does to a marriage, you can't accept it. He can watch as much porn as he wants, but he has to let me go first and allow me to be happy with one of those 25% of men who doesn't.
     
  19. Advocate109

    Advocate109 Fapstronaut

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    What i meant by theres nothing wrong with porn and masturbating, i mean theres nothing wrong with it as long as its not affecting your relationship negatively.
    PMO itself to the CASUAL PMOer is relatively harmless.
     
  20. Advocate109

    Advocate109 Fapstronaut

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    And a study was done thatshowed 98% of men watch porn (it was a sexuality porn study)
     

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