Post acute withdrawal and my symptoms. Can you relate?

Discussion in 'Rebooting - Porn Addiction Recovery' started by DarkSektur, Mar 30, 2018.

  1. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    I have this weird pressure/seansations/throbbing in front of my head that started when I started NoFap - I also got anxiety. I have never in my life had social anxiety until I started nofap. In fact people don't even believe it's possible when I tell them as my previous character was the complete opposite, my job, my personal life and everything in between was extremely social.

    I'll give you an example, part of my job is recruiting (hiring and interviewing people) - I've done hundreds, I used to enjoy it especially face to face.. especially if it was a hot girl. Now I'm anxious and panicky for every single one for the first 5-10 minutes, and my brain starts throbbing as above. As soon as I'm in a social situation my body goes into fight or flight - and there is nothing I can do about it. At it's worse this was even meeting friends and family - explain that? My closest friends and family sent me into fight or flight.

    I wasn't some guy who suffered crippling social anxiety all his life and watched porn in my parents basement and it's just a continuation. I was extremely outgoing and social - I've slept with maybe 400-500 girls (just as unhealthy as porn).

    I also was doing alot of cocaine and sleeping with girls - but for the last 2-3 years it went dark - and instead of having sex with girls, I'd just do cocaine and watch porn with them. Get that - I'd rather stay awake for 2-3 days watching porn and doing cocaine with numerous girls who would come and go - then have sex and go to sleep.

    Also I'll note shit only got bad for me when I started watching tons of porn/edging instead of having sex.

    There is 0 doubt, and I mean 0 doubt that this is PAWS and it's real. MY brain is throbbing near the front most days, and two things make it get worse - thinking about sex or anxiety. Explain that
     
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  2. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    100% this. Fantasizing is almost as bad as watching porn. I am 8 months in and only now have I got the resolve to cut down fantasising to 0.

    The first 6 months it wasn't even a choice, every 3-4 weeks porn/sex fantaszies would attack me for 2-3 days and there was nothing I could do. I would try absolutely everything not to think about sex when it attacked.

    I remember lieing on my bed with an erection while my brain was running endless sexual scenarios trying to convince me to either get a prostitute, go on a sex app or text a previous sexual partner. I remember just lieing there thinking to myself how fucking crazy it was and how I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy.
     
  3. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    I have come to exact same conclusion. For us to fully recover all sexual thoughts must be removed.

    This is actually a good thing, sexual thoughts are a complete detriment to our experience - they are by definition completely imaginary. When we give up what isn't real, we gain what is.

    It would be interesting to start documenting sexual thoughts vs recovery timelines especially for those with PAWS. I'll make notes on amount of sexual thoughts and perceived speed of recovery.

    I meditate a crazy amount - 2-3 hours a day, and around 60 days in silent retreat this year meditating 14-18hrs a day, so I'm extremely mindful of my thoughts and their content. I'm sure there will be a correlation. My last sexual thought was around 3 weeks and 1 day ago. Lets see how this next 90 days goes
     
  4. In my experience meditation can be dangerous, I would not play with those old techniques. What I found better playing with puzzles, reading a good story from a real book, not from screen. Reading aloud, putting together something etc. Anything that needs your focus and you do it in real world. Dont be angry if you do not enjoy them at first, your brain will relearn to enjoy them.

    Meditation can fck up your brain just like pmo, for some people. I warned you. Peace!
     
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  5. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    Ha, meditation is the best thing to come out of NoFap for me - in fact I'd go through NoFap again just to find meditation and Buddhadhamma

    It's strange you would say that about meditation... one side of it is literally learning to tame your own mind - there is no downside to that my friend. But whatever is working for you to help you progress
     
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  6. Meditation will not teach your brain to enjoy everyday living, and "boring" things. In my opinion those techniques was developed to detach people from reality, because they thought if they get rid of the urge of "wanting pleasure" they will be free from their problems etc. Meanwhile all they achieved big de realization, where for them whole word with its problems looks absurd, or something like that. In their big derealization they even made conclusions like "I must been blind before, but now i see the real world as i should see!"

    Derealization is dangerous, you will not recognize you are in that state. Just like with depersonalization.

    In short all I can advice if someone want to be free from pmo addiction and live normal happy life with everyday's boring things and problems then do not meditate, just learn to love the "boring life".
     
  7. Thought I'd document my experiences with PAWS, since I'm going through an episode right now:

    Been in recovery ~1.5 years. The first half year of that was very short streaks of rarely more than a month. Since I've been consistently achieving streaks of over 90 days, however, I have also been consistently dealing with PAWS. Initially the episodes were very bad: I would experience bad anxiety and social inability - but by far the worst component was complete fatigue. I felt like I wanted to lie down and do nothing all day. The episodes have been in remission for the last few months though, both in frequency and intensity. Now, the experience is more uncomfortable than crippling. The same symptoms are there as before (as well as mild insomnia) but to a much lesser degree: I can still talk to people but I'm more awkward than usual. I still experience anxiety but I can still get what needs to be done done.

    Intensity and length of PAWS seems to be highly proportional with intensity and length of use of PMO. My use of PMO was - relative to other people on this forum - fairly moderate. But compared to healthy users of pornography (although I'm doubtful there is such a user) definitely severe. I would generally PMO once a day, sometimes twice. I had fairly degenerate fetishes, and they were only getting worse. This had been going on 10 years.

    I think you entirely misunderstand the process and point of meditation. Meditation is the polar opposite of what you call derealisation. The point of meditation (at least in it's purest form) is entirely to focus on reality in the present moment. Hence the concept of mindfulness that goes hand-in-hand with meditation.

    You could argue that monks living in monasteries attempting to achieve nirvana away from civilisation is a form of derealisation, but saying that any more than a tiny fraction of people who meditate take it to this level and do it for this purpose is a criminal misrepresentation of the facts. Most people meditate to feel more grounded in reality. Not the opposite.
     
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  8. BigBallOfFire

    BigBallOfFire Fapstronaut

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    I get you. there are no long term studies on how porn fucks up our brains and Im doing it prolly since I was 8-9 years old. Im 37 now. Thats like 29 years. Lets say we count since 12 as no high-speed porn was present there, only porn movies on VHS. That was still bad, tho. Thats still like 25 years. I cant imagine anyone taking cocaine doing it for 25 years.
    Its a very LONG time for a damaging habit/drug addiction. Also, we started VERY young when our brains were still forming.

    But so do other people. Others overindulge in alcohol. smoking. bad foods. Maybe its not possible to completely heal? I mean whats the end goal?
    For me it would be having sex often and not having depression after orgasms but then Im already 37. Im getting old. My energy after ejaculation WONT be coming back at this point no matter what I do. So maybe Im wasting my time, instead of having some fun from the remaining sex that I can still have when my body works instead of postponing it X years until I ''heal'' by living as a monk now?

    But then I am having few drinks, sleep with a girl then relapse and Im back to square one.

    >What are normal energy levels, libido, how much interest should one have in activities, other people etc?

    Well, my energy levels are pretty ok I think. If I live healthy. But if I start a period of caffeine, sugary foods, 2-3 times of drinking alcohol then I turn into a wreck. Physically and mentally. The less I do this, the less I enjoy it. Also... maybe youre just an introvert? Thats ok, too. I am one. NoFap definitely gives me bigger social edge [confidence+stable mood+mental energy so talking to people is easy] but it doesnt make me an extrovert. I wouldnt want that either.

    Have you tried any supplements? Read 'The Mood Cure' by Julia Ross.
    Before I started NoFap, I somehow unconsciously felt something was wrong and I was taking tons of supplements to fix my brain - only natural healthy aminoacids or single herbs, L-tyrosine for energy, L-tryptophan for mood and so on..
     
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  9. BigBallOfFire

    BigBallOfFire Fapstronaut

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    oh no quite the opposite! if anything, meditation teaches you to enjoy everyday living be present and mindful during those boring things... youre more present as opposed to detached/day dreaming as most people are. its not about ceasing pleasure, its about ceasing chasing after things [pleasures- usually material ones] and running away from others [suffering]
     
  10. BigBallOfFire

    BigBallOfFire Fapstronaut

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    I ALSO agree to this. we cannot assume being 'professional victims' 'oh I was an addict, so Im broken until end of my life...'

    'normal' people go through depression periods, too! and often they deal with it in the most insane ways [alcohol for example?]
     
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  11. BigBallOfFire

    BigBallOfFire Fapstronaut

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    eh, you do sound a bit radical ;] you see, maybe normal people dont even recognize fantasizing or watching porn gives them this ''foggy brain'' maybe they enjoy it, or maybe its supposed to be like this? we are already better than most of people who NEVER start working on themselves. or take easy way of drinking, smoking or popping antidepressants. or worse.

    thinking about sex is NORMAL for a male. lets not get too crazy. do we want to heal and resume normal sexual lives or we want to be monks?
    even the biggest alpha male will have his energy lowered down by orgasm. its natural. thats how this world works..
     
  12. I understand your point of view, but I was talking about the original, real goals of meditation, not about the new "western meditation" propaganda.
     
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  13. humbleone

    humbleone Fapstronaut

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    I don't mean to discount peoples opinions or views but I think we should keep threads like these to discussions strictly around PAWS

    If you don't believe in PAWS or aren't experiencing it's better not to post then to accuse us of making it up - or giving advice, however well intentioned.

    I'm really determined to bring more awareness to PAWS and clarity on anything that can help speed things up or at least clearly document what is happening.
     
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  14. CS1

    CS1 Fapstronaut

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    Porn is not the only reason.. figure out what you are lacking ..
     
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  15. DGZ

    DGZ Fapstronaut

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    Has anyone tried ditching caffeine and mindless internet browsing? They both affect dopamine levels. Could slow our recovery.
     
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  16. DGZ

    DGZ Fapstronaut

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    This could be SSRI withdrawal. Go to www.survivingantidepressants.org and search for misophonia. SSRI withdrawal can bring its own set of PAWS symptoms; there is a PAWS thread on those forums similar to this thread here.
     
  17. BigBallOfFire

    BigBallOfFire Fapstronaut

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    Yes, I dont drink alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, drugs, I dont eat sweets or chips/crisps, or unhealthy foods.
     
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  18. I think you will know when you're truly healing or close to it. You will see life for what it is meaning the colors, the sound, beautiful views, everything will make sense, some things will give you joy or sadness. You will be able to feel emotions again. I stay hopeful because I have had glimpses once in a while when there's no brain fog.
    Also you will stay less on this forum and you will have a "don't give a fuck attitude."
     
  19. Fallensoldier1

    Fallensoldier1 Fapstronaut

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    Ok after reading these and me still having symptoms even after 200 plus days. I have realized that I still have fantasies and especially eyes and thoughts about women I see out in public. How on earth do you control your mind and stop the thoughts? Stop thinking sexual fantasies you tell yourself. Then guess what all I can think about?? Half naked or naked women!
     
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  20. Umm it’s normal? Men are sexual beings as long as u don’t act upon the thoughts ur okay! And don’t PMO of course.. don’t overthink this..
     
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